Semi Nurainen Posted September 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 38 minutes ago, Lenziejag49 said: It would be a breath of fresh air if the Chief Exec and the board would be open and honest with the the fans, who were there before the current board and will be there long after their departure,about their specific goals for Caldwell and his management team. Cathro was allegedly great with spreadsheets and analysis but couldn’t motivate a team to win consistently Interesting to hear what Chesterfield and Wigan fans think now??? Last time I looked (Morton game) they were pissing themselves at him throwing away a two goal lead with 18 minutes to go ('That's our Gary!'). And congratulating themselves at having got rid of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Lenziejag49 said: Surely the board have Caldwell on specific and timebound performance management targets, that if not achieved ,would to lead to termination of his contract without compensation ??? I don't know the answer to that but if and when we appoint a new manager ( please God let that be soon!), that should definately be an explicit part of their contract. Furthermore, I would make if clear to the fans that this is the basis on which he/she/ it , is employed. ie if we do not finish in the top half of the league this season then they can be fired with no compo ( not will be but can be). And before the apologist start on about no decent manager wouldsagree to a contract on that basis - fine - we will get someone that will. Someone who is prepared to put there balls on the line and be judged on performances. Not some mumpty on the managerial gravy train - happy to take the money and the compensation when they fail. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 1 hour ago, jlsarmy said: Alan Forrest , Paul Mcmullan , Jamie Robson , Mark Reynolds , Calum Butcher would all improve our team IMO We dont need more/ different players. We need a manager who galvanises the players we have to commit to each other and the collective.Who improves the players we have and gets them playing to their strenghths ( recognising their limitations) in a consistent formation. Not some self obsessed ***** who chops and changes the formation and personnel every week and tries out stupid corner kick tactics that he has read about in Four Four Two. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Emsca said: We dont need more/ different players. We need a manager who galvanises the players we have to commit to each other and the collective.Who improves the players we have and gets them playing to their strenghths ( recognising their limitations) in a consistent formation. Not some self obsessed ***** who chops and changes the formation and personnel every week and tries out stupid corner kick tactics that he has read about in Four Four Two. . Think the question was there was no one within the teams that we’ve played so far that would improve our team . Not sure that’s the case with the players mentioned. Caldwell doesn’t seem like a coach that improves players, quite the opposite in fact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Lenziejag49 said: It would be a breath of fresh air if the Chief Exec and the board would be open and honest with the the fans, who were there before the current board and will be there long after their departure,about their specific goals for Caldwell and his management team. I don’t believe you can share your employee’s exact KPI’s PEP goals or performance measures with the general public (or other employees) under employment laws. Only loose goals (Aim is promotion etc), can’t say he must be x points over y games or he’s fired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Norgethistle said: I don’t believe you can share your employee’s exact KPI’s PEP goals or performance measures with the general public (or other employees) under employment laws. Only loose goals (Aim is promotion etc), can’t say he must be x points over y games or he’s fired Not saying that. Saying if he does not have x points over y games he can be fired with no payoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 27 minutes ago, Emsca said: Not saying that. Saying if he does not have x points over y games he can be fired with no payoff. I’d really hope that any board employing any manager would have these clauses in for at least the first contract (extensions may remove need for these after a time), it appears our beloved Mr Caldwell doesn’t have these or he would have been bumped at Xmas or at least end of season. If hiring a proven successful manager currently in a job I could see him having the upper hand and refusing these. If hiring a manager who’s relegated 2 clubs 3 times, been fired twice and currently out of work at effectively at “last chance saloon” the board should have held all the cards and been able to insist on these being in place. If Caldwell wasn’t happy with them then one of the other guys who applied (With better credentials) then gets the nod. Completely bizarre how he got the job with his record, was offered the job if (as rumored) the CEO said no, kept the job after using a false reason for failure at Chesterfield leading to the club having to remove a statement on the official site due to threat of legal action from Chesterfield, kept his job after no wins in 10 or something games, was allowed to punt Erskine & Doolan in the manner it was done, was given credit for avoiding relegation on last game of season when his remit was promotion. Caldwell is a poor poor manager, but those in charge who hired him, stood by him as we failed, stood back and did nothing as two club legends were treated like crap are far far worse and completely to blame for where we are now. Relying on a 36 yr old striker to (Thankfully) pull us out a hole (at more a week than most our players were on in prem ) should have sent alarm bells ringing to those in charge, but no he’s allowed to sign a 39yr old on a higher wage on a longer contract, then moan he can’t get enough players. Again fault lies above him too. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 Whoever replaces Caldwell, at least on the short term has to work with the players we have. I feel that greatly reduces the number of serious candidates. Effectively we have to be looking for a motivator ahead of an all encompassing manager. ******* Dick Campbell is/was probably a better motivator then Ian McCall . Guess what I'm trying to say is, sack Caldwell and replace him with a proven manager (eg Lennon or McCall) carries huge risk factors. We're in such a mess we're not in a position to bide time and judge a new manager on the team he builds. Caldwell was given that luxury but he's ****** up that latitude for his successor. Logic tells me Caldwell should only be sacked if it's clear in football parlance, he's lost the dressing room or there's a guy either within the squad or somebody standing on the sidelines that can motivate the players from the word go. Put another way just because Caldwell is deserving of dismissal doesn't mean he should be sacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 3 hours ago, jagfox said: I'm not, I'm stating facts. Out of the teams we've played what of their players would you like at Firhill? (I'm not allowing Shankland as that is unlikely to be happening ). I know you're stating facts. But I was also stating facts when I said we had very few players who have played above our current (Championship) level. Anyway, we're round in circles a bit here. To be honest I don't know much about other teams' players, I just tend to focus on ours. And I'm not saying they're not capable at this level. I'm just saying that very few have proved themselves better than this, and if they're not managed properly they're going to struggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Whoever replaces Caldwell, at least on the short term has to work with the players we have. I feel that greatly reduces the number of serious candidates. Effectively we have to be looking for a motivator ahead of an all encompassing manager. ******* Dick Campbell is/was probably a better motivator then Ian McCall . Guess what I'm trying to say is, sack Caldwell and replace him with a proven manager (eg Lennon or McCall) carries huge risk factors. We're in such a mess we're not in a position to bide time and judge a new manager on the team he builds. Caldwell was given that luxury but he's ****** up that latitude for his successor. Logic tells me Caldwell should only be sacked if it's clear in football parlance, he's lost the dressing room or there's a guy either within the squad or somebody standing on the sidelines that can motivate the players from the word go. Put another way just because Caldwell is deserving of dismissal doesn't mean he should be sacked. You need a motivator who knows this league and is currently out of work then it’s Yogi Hughes If you want someone who knows the league knows the club but you’ll need to pay to get them then it’s McCall or Danny Lennon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firhill Pie Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 Right now and with my tongue partially placed in my cheek if we are talking motivators who know / love our club i’d let Chic Charnley come in until January and see what he can get out of this squad! Even if its just until we can get a more experienced head in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Whoever replaces Caldwell, at least on the short term has to work with the players we have. I feel that greatly reduces the number of serious candidates. Effectively we have to be looking for a motivator ahead of an all encompassing manager. ******* Dick Campbell is/was probably a better motivator then Ian McCall . Guess what I'm trying to say is, sack Caldwell and replace him with a proven manager (eg Lennon or McCall) carries huge risk factors. We're in such a mess we're not in a position to bide time and judge a new manager on the team he builds. Caldwell was given that luxury but he's ****** up that latitude for his successor. Logic tells me Caldwell should only be sacked if it's clear in football parlance, he's lost the dressing room or there's a guy either within the squad or somebody standing on the sidelines that can motivate the players from the word go. Put another way just because Caldwell is deserving of dismissal doesn't mean he should be sacked. At our level, the lost the dressing room parlance isn’t that relevant, we’ve got players like Harkins , Cardle etc that are just glad they’ve managed to secure contracts , and whether they agree with Caldwell’s methods it won’t really matter too much as long as they get paid . Think you can see there is no togetherness within the team and the Club , watched Norwich beat Man City tonight and you could see the team spirit , the supporters getting behind the Manager and the team . They were all in it together. Obviously at a much lower level that should be our template, there is no chance with Caldwell in charge that is going to happen. Edited September 14, 2019 by jlsarmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 I note that hearts have the same stats as us and the hearts fans protested on mass today. Pretty sure he will be gone soon also. Knowing our luck we will sack Caldwell and get levein as a replacement! I dont know why but maybe Hughes may be a good fit. A maverick type manager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: You need a motivator who knows this league and is currently out of work then it’s Yogi Hughes If you want someone who knows the league knows the club but you’ll need to pay to get them then it’s McCall or Danny Lennon That to me is alarmingly scary. Not disagreeing that Hughes (or a few others for that matter) wouldn't bring about the equivalent of the deid moggy bounce but past that, no way. I wouldn't be renewing my season ticket if Hughes was permanent manager. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Norgethistle said: I don’t believe you can share your employee’s exact KPI’s PEP goals or performance measures with the general public (or other employees) under employment laws. Only loose goals (Aim is promotion etc), can’t say he must be x points over y games or he’s fired Yes you can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West of Scotland Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 42 minutes ago, dl1971 said: I note that hearts have the same stats as us and the hearts fans protested on mass today. Pretty sure he will be gone soon also. Knowing our luck we will sack Caldwell and get levein as a replacement! I dont know why but maybe Hughes may be a good fit. A maverick type manager? Angry Jam Tarts trying to storm Tynecastle after the match. Who's up for a mob after the Dunfermline game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted September 14, 2019 Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 54 minutes ago, Firhill Pie said: Right now and with my tongue partially placed in my cheek if we are talking motivators who know / love our club i’d let Chic Charnley come in until January and see what he can get out of this squad! Even if its just until we can get a more experienced head in. Chic's opinion was that Duffy should have been given the job instead of Caldwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted September 15, 2019 Report Share Posted September 15, 2019 9 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: That to me is alarmingly scary. Not disagreeing that Hughes (or a few others for that matter) wouldn't bring about the equivalent of the deid moggy bounce but past that, no way. I wouldn't be renewing my season ticket if Hughes was permanent manager. Why not? He's been pretty successful at a higher level than this and he seems to favour attacking football. I've always thought he seemed a decent guy and I remember McCall,speaking very highly of him (and reckoning he'd be perfect for Thistle). Reckon there must be something behind it, for you to feel so strongly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westertonjagfan Posted September 15, 2019 Report Share Posted September 15, 2019 18 hours ago, Z88 said: Caldwell has to go. The uncertainty created with the proposed takeover could make appointing a new permanent manager difficult however. I'd doubt anyone would want to come with the prospect of being punted early doors if news owners come in. A temporary fix could be Gerry Britton and Scott Alison until the ownership issue is resolved. this, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARu-Strathbungo Posted September 15, 2019 Report Share Posted September 15, 2019 12 hours ago, Norgethistle said: You need a motivator who knows this league and is currently out of work then it’s Yogi Hughes If you want someone who knows the league knows the club but you’ll need to pay to get them then it’s McCall or Danny Lennon I would agree with this, short term till the end of the season JH would put a smile into the team and get them playing in their correct positions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 15, 2019 Report Share Posted September 15, 2019 18 minutes ago, ARu-Strathbungo said: I would agree with this, short term till the end of the season JH would put a smile into the team and get them playing in their correct positions. Short term appointment for me would be Stephen Craigan , knows what we’re all about, good coach etc and still has contacts within Firhill . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARu-Strathbungo Posted September 15, 2019 Report Share Posted September 15, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Short term appointment for me would be Stephen Craigan , knows what we’re all about, good coach etc and still has contacts within Firhill . yes, another good call …. in fact there are so many good candidates out there that know what PTFC is about …. its completely baffling that GC got the job! Edited September 15, 2019 by ARu-Strathbungo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 15, 2019 Report Share Posted September 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, ARu-Strathbungo said: yes, another good call …. in fact there are so many good candidates out there that know what PTFC is about …. its completely baffling that GC got the job! Indeed. Beattie should've turned up at the Maryhill Juniors game the other week. Could've started the interviewing process there and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted September 15, 2019 Report Share Posted September 15, 2019 16 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Whoever replaces Caldwell, at least on the short term has to work with the players we have. I feel that greatly reduces the number of serious candidates. Effectively we have to be looking for a motivator ahead of an all encompassing manager. ******* Dick Campbell is/was probably a better motivator then Ian McCall . Guess what I'm trying to say is, sack Caldwell and replace him with a proven manager (eg Lennon or McCall) carries huge risk factors. We're in such a mess we're not in a position to bide time and judge a new manager on the team he builds. Caldwell was given that luxury but he's ****** up that latitude for his successor. Logic tells me Caldwell should only be sacked if it's clear in football parlance, he's lost the dressing room or there's a guy either within the squad or somebody standing on the sidelines that can motivate the players from the word go. Put another way just because Caldwell is deserving of dismissal doesn't mean he should be sacked. Sorry , I completely disagree. I think the greater risk by a long way would be to retain him. I we appoint someone else and it doesnt work, we are in no worse a position football wise -( I accept the financial implications) . He is undoubtedly deserving of dismissal and SHOULD be sacked. I would be prepared to give time to a young un-proven manager who is honest and open with the fans and explains his philiosophy and what he is aiming to achieve. I dont expect immediate succcess but what I do expect is a collective togetherness . At the moment there is clearly diharmony within the playing squad and a big and ever increasing disconnect between the Club and the fans. I blame Caldwell for a lot of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted September 15, 2019 Report Share Posted September 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Emsca said: Sorry , I completely disagree. I think the greater risk by a long way would be to retain him. I we appoint someone else and it doesnt work, we are in no worse a position football wise -( I accept the financial implications) . He is undoubtedly deserving of dismissal and SHOULD be sacked. I would be prepared to give time to a young un-proven manager who is honest and open with the fans and explains his philiosophy and what he is aiming to achieve. I dont expect immediate succcess but what I do expect is a collective togetherness . At the moment there is clearly diharmony within the playing squad and a big and ever increasing disconnect between the Club and the fans. I blame Caldwell for a lot of this. Agree with some of this but I remember Derek Johnstone, Murdo McLeod and Sandy Clark were all young and failed dismally. No guarantee it will work. Then again no guarantee experience will work! Feck knows what is best right now. I did hear today at the game that takeover is going through this week.....things may be about to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.