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Thistle For Ever - Fans Ownership


javeajag
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One question. I assume that the 2 trusts are not going to sell or gift their shares, so does the 51% exclude these shares, or is it to top up the combined shares to get over the 51% ?

Either way, but more so in the latter case and barring in mind the differences of opinion in this forum, what are the chances of 3 supporters bodies all working for the same common good ?

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4 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

One question. I assume that the 2 trusts are not going to sell or gift their shares, so does the 51% exclude these shares, or is it to top up the combined shares to get over the 51% ?

Either way, but more so in the latter case and barring in mind the differences of opinion in this forum, what are the chances of 3 supporters bodies all working for the same common good ?

I’m assuming that it’s the two trusts getting together to create one fan organisation holding 27% of the club shares and then adding new shares to that to try and get over 51% ....the plan seems to do that by shareholders gifting their shares and by fans pledging cash to buy shares 

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It is amazing what you can do when you actually want to communicate with people. Having taken the time to read through the website it offers a sensible plan, answers many of the questions asked on here and puts the future of our club in our hands. Will it be easy - of course not but in the long term it will serve our club better, in my opinion, than the easy option of saying "let a billionaire do his thing".

It will have my backing and I would recommend at least reading the information on the website to fellow fans.

https://thistleforever.org/

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44 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

It is amazing what you can do when you actually want to communicate with people. Having taken the time to read through the website it offers a sensible plan, answers many of the questions asked on here and puts the future of our club in our hands. Will it be easy - of course not but in the long term it will serve our club better, in my opinion, than the easy option of saying "let a billionaire do his thing".

It will have my backing and I would recommend at least reading the information on the website to fellow fans.

https://thistleforever.org/

It may well serve our club better, and I appreciate it is only your opinion, but there is insufficient evidence on either plan to reach that conclusion at this stage.  I speak from a position of being supportive of fan ownership, but also in the spirit of fair play.

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This is the Falkirk target for context (800k) 

40 Patrons @ average £14k = £560k (range £5/10k-£100k)
• 1000 Supporters @ £10pm = £240k (over two years)

slightly different because this was to issue new shares  

they made a good start but have now fallen behind I think  

our number required will probably be higher  

 

 

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1 hour ago, sandy said:

Fan ownership is a great concept, good to see some real fans like Erik and Allan behind this. 

I think Paul Goodwin has had a go at least one other Club (Stirling Albion perhaps). I’d like to hear more from him to understand his commitment to us.

If you listen to the podcast mentioned a few posts earlier, you will realise that Paul Goodwin is a longstanding and committed Thistle fan. He revealed his best memory as attending the 1971 League Cup Final and spoke of Gerry Britton as King of Spain in a way you would only do if steeped in Thistle culture. Worth a listen. Obviously lots of relevant experience and a calm and intelligent speaker.

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2 minutes ago, partickthedog said:

If you listen to the podcast mentioned a few posts earlier, you will realise that Paul Goodwin is a longstanding and committed Thistle fan. He revealed his best memory as attending the 1971 League Cup Final and spoke of Gerry Britton as King of Spain in a way you would only do if steeped in Thistle culture. Worth a listen. Obviously lots of relevant experience and a calm and intelligent speaker.

Just to add his involvement with clubs like Stirling Albion, st mirren, Dunfermline etc has been a professional one advising and helping fan groups with community ownership ....so from that perspective a good guy to have on board

if it can work for st mirren, Dunfermline and Motherwell no reason it can’t work for us 

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1 hour ago, Fawlty Towers said:

Confirmation Statement

It is a couple of year since this had been updated.

 

Thanks for that, but unfortunately this is what clicking on the link produces for me:

This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.

<Error>
<Code>AccessDenied</Code>
<Message>Request has expired</Message>
<X-Amz-Expires>60</X-Amz-Expires>
<Expires>2019-09-04T05:55:58Z</Expires>
<ServerTime>2019-09-04T07:02:49Z</ServerTime>
<RequestId>B2C2900D744BBE19</RequestId>
<HostId>
bqOUOkv6RcUm+qWjt28LVMBLjExANlWtbXyQdoda+rEMjCyxf8wqe4Oj+NY5ecnsHDT2el3KYqc=
</HostId>
</Error>
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9 hours ago, Pinhead said:

If this happens i am gone, as soon as these loonballs own the club it will be as bad as the Jags Trust - we will be  dead within 5 years

I think that you are conflating fan ownership (as shareholders) with an inexperienced committee of fans running the club (as directors).

The executive function should always be performed by people with the relevant skills and experience. These are the people who will have the day to day responsibility for running the club. It is not essential that they support the club, provided they can discharge their executive function in a manner which promotes the success of the club.

All that fan ownership will do is to give supporters the ultimate say in the big strategic decisions - for example a sale / appointment of the board etc. The board would still be responsible for, eg managerial appointments, but the shareholders periodically have the opportunity to hold the board to account.  Have a look at company law for a better understanding of shareholder rights.

If you were to construct a logical argument against fan ownership, it would probably be around the turning off of the philanthropic tap of wealthy individuals who don’t really have an affinity with the club, but view it as a vanity project - for example Mike Ashley at Newcastle. You might view that as a good thing, or you might think that it’s something which might limit the club’s ability to push ahead, but it does result in greater responsibility for the success of the club being placed with the supporters. If funds need to be raised, it would be down to us, but if we own it, then that’s only fair.

I do think that you’re doing the concept a disservice, however, if you just take the view that fans can’t agree on the simplest things on an Internet forum, so can’t possibly run a football club. The concept doesn’t call for them to run the football club in the first place.

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11 hours ago, Pinhead said:

If this happens i am gone, as soon as these loonballs own the club it will be as bad as the Jags Trust - we will be  dead within 5 years

Could be dead long before that with the things that are happening just now , maybe we should take Bury as a warning sign ?

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2 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

Thanks for that, but unfortunately this is what clicking on the link produces for me:

This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.

<Error>
<Code>AccessDenied</Code>
<Message>Request has expired</Message>
<X-Amz-Expires>60</X-Amz-Expires>
<Expires>2019-09-04T05:55:58Z</Expires>
<ServerTime>2019-09-04T07:02:49Z</ServerTime>
<RequestId>B2C2900D744BBE19</RequestId>
<HostId>
bqOUOkv6RcUm+qWjt28LVMBLjExANlWtbXyQdoda+rEMjCyxf8wqe4Oj+NY5ecnsHDT2el3KYqc=
</HostId>
</Error>

Google search for “companies house beta”.

On the website homepage, plug “Partick Thistle Football Club” into the search bar. The first entry will be the club. 

Click “filing history”.  The entry that you are looking for is the “confirmation statement” which is dated 9 Jan 2018 - the entries are in date order, so it’s easy enough to find. Click the “view pdf” button and you’ll find the list.

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17 hours ago, jaf said:

I understand where you are coming from, but there are two issues with this :

1. It reduces future and/or potential income to the club

2. Only by holding shares can the fans be assured of proper representation - and for that therefore to be democratic

This is the best model for this kind of plan. Well done to the guys who have invested time to get this established and test the commitment of Thistle fans to own their club.

Fair enough I hadn't really thought that thru. Still believe it would be beneficial if there were also other imaginative methods of raising cash for shares.

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"It is essential that, every Board member will have to be a member of the supporters’ group that appoints the Board" 

Interesting statement from the Thistle Forever Website - so the Supporters Group will exclusively appoint the Board   - so what about the other 49% of the Shareholders - does there views not count - also you could be a Season Ticket Holder & a Shareholder but if your not in the "Gang"  your excluded from standing for elections  to the Board - is this the New Democracy ?   

Fans with the requisite skills and experience will be able to apply but it won’t be possible for someone without the appropriate skills to simply be voted onto the Board

Who decides what the requisite Skills are ?  - the Thistle Forever Trustees ? - Paul Goodwin ?  - Who decides on the "appropriate skills " - Paul Goodwin ? Now it all sounds very professional but here is my issue - Yes they are right to question what Direction the Clubs going in - but by definition that implies they were happy with the previous incumbents- otherwise they would have launched this previously ?   Also if they dont hit the targets - but a benefactor offers to fund the purchase - but wants there own couple of people on the Board - are they going to say No ?   

Nor will it be possible for anyone to ‘buy’ a seat on the Board.

 

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47 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

"It is essential that, every Board member will have to be a member of the supporters’ group that appoints the Board" 

Interesting statement from the Thistle Forever Website - so the Supporters Group will exclusively appoint the Board   - so what about the other 49% of the Shareholders - does there views not count - also you could be a Season Ticket Holder & a Shareholder but if your not in the "Gang"  your excluded from standing for elections  to the Board - is this the New Democracy ?   

Fans with the requisite skills and experience will be able to apply but it won’t be possible for someone without the appropriate skills to simply be voted onto the Board

Who decides what the requisite Skills are ?  - the Thistle Forever Trustees ? - Paul Goodwin ?  - Who decides on the "appropriate skills " - Paul Goodwin ? Now it all sounds very professional but here is my issue - Yes they are right to question what Direction the Clubs going in - but by definition that implies they were happy with the previous incumbents- otherwise they would have launched this previously ?   Also if they dont hit the targets - but a benefactor offers to fund the purchase - but wants there own couple of people on the Board - are they going to say No ?   

Nor will it be possible for anyone to ‘buy’ a seat on the Board.

 

I’m not sure they’ve necessarily said they were happy with the status quo. It’s perfectly possible to have been unhappy with the previous board but also have concerns about the Chien Lee consortium. 

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12 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said:

I’m not sure they’ve necessarily said they were happy with the status quo. It’s perfectly possible to have been unhappy with the previous board but also have concerns about the Chien Lee consortium. 

They have clearly stated that the proposed takeover has set this into action - therefore given that there was no attempt in having a Fans Rep on Board from either of the Trusts - nor was there any attempt to unite them  under the Old Board - then why didn't we hear from this concerned Group of Fans - where were the searching  questions at the AGM at the last Board Meeting from those within  there midst who are ShareHolders - just seems a bit odd that they have only suddenly discovered there voices - anyway lets see what develops - its there Gang and its there Gang Rules as to how they see the future as clearly stated on there Website     - Fans have concerns and the lack of info on the takeover from the Club is shambolic - but lets put everyone looking to take Control under the same scrutiny   

 

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20 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

They have clearly stated that the proposed takeover has set this into action - therefore given that there was no attempt in having a Fans Rep on Board from either of the Trusts - nor was there any attempt to unite them  under the Old Board - then why didn't we hear from this concerned Group of Fans - where were the searching  questions at the AGM at the last Board Meeting from those within  there midst who are ShareHolders - just seems a bit odd that they have only suddenly discovered there voices - anyway lets see what develops - its there Gang and its there Gang Rules as to how they see the future as clearly stated on there Website     - Fans have concerns and the lack of info on the takeover from the Club is shambolic - but lets put everyone looking to take Control under the same scrutiny   

 

I agree that every group should come under scrutiny, just don’t agree that the fact this didn’t happen under the old board means that those involved were all happy with the old board. Then again I don’t know those concerned so maybe they were!

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