Dick Dastardly Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 One question. I assume that the 2 trusts are not going to sell or gift their shares, so does the 51% exclude these shares, or is it to top up the combined shares to get over the 51% ? Either way, but more so in the latter case and barring in mind the differences of opinion in this forum, what are the chances of 3 supporters bodies all working for the same common good ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: One question. I assume that the 2 trusts are not going to sell or gift their shares, so does the 51% exclude these shares, or is it to top up the combined shares to get over the 51% ? Either way, but more so in the latter case and barring in mind the differences of opinion in this forum, what are the chances of 3 supporters bodies all working for the same common good ? I’m assuming that it’s the two trusts getting together to create one fan organisation holding 27% of the club shares and then adding new shares to that to try and get over 51% ....the plan seems to do that by shareholders gifting their shares and by fans pledging cash to buy shares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 It is amazing what you can do when you actually want to communicate with people. Having taken the time to read through the website it offers a sensible plan, answers many of the questions asked on here and puts the future of our club in our hands. Will it be easy - of course not but in the long term it will serve our club better, in my opinion, than the easy option of saying "let a billionaire do his thing". It will have my backing and I would recommend at least reading the information on the website to fellow fans. https://thistleforever.org/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 44 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said: It is amazing what you can do when you actually want to communicate with people. Having taken the time to read through the website it offers a sensible plan, answers many of the questions asked on here and puts the future of our club in our hands. Will it be easy - of course not but in the long term it will serve our club better, in my opinion, than the easy option of saying "let a billionaire do his thing". It will have my backing and I would recommend at least reading the information on the website to fellow fans. https://thistleforever.org/ It may well serve our club better, and I appreciate it is only your opinion, but there is insufficient evidence on either plan to reach that conclusion at this stage. I speak from a position of being supportive of fan ownership, but also in the spirit of fair play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 Podcast interview with Paul Goodwin on Thistle For Ever https://rocksportradio.podbean.com/e/euan-robertson-speaks-to-paul-goodwin-from-thistle-for-ever/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinhead Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 If this happens i am gone, as soon as these loonballs own the club it will be as bad as the Jags Trust - we will be dead within 5 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 This is the Falkirk target for context (800k) 40 Patrons @ average £14k = £560k (range £5/10k-£100k) • 1000 Supporters @ £10pm = £240k (over two years) slightly different because this was to issue new shares they made a good start but have now fallen behind I think our number required will probably be higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 Fan ownership is a great concept, good to see some real fans like Erik and Allan behind this. I think Paul Goodwin has had a go at least one other Club (Stirling Albion perhaps). I’d like to hear more from him to understand his commitment to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 Is there a publicly available list of all shareholders of PTFC and how many of what kind of shares they own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Jaggernaut said: Is there a publicly available list of all shareholders of PTFC and how many of what kind of shares they own? Confirmation Statement It is a couple of year since this had been updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, sandy said: Fan ownership is a great concept, good to see some real fans like Erik and Allan behind this. I think Paul Goodwin has had a go at least one other Club (Stirling Albion perhaps). I’d like to hear more from him to understand his commitment to us. If you listen to the podcast mentioned a few posts earlier, you will realise that Paul Goodwin is a longstanding and committed Thistle fan. He revealed his best memory as attending the 1971 League Cup Final and spoke of Gerry Britton as King of Spain in a way you would only do if steeped in Thistle culture. Worth a listen. Obviously lots of relevant experience and a calm and intelligent speaker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, partickthedog said: If you listen to the podcast mentioned a few posts earlier, you will realise that Paul Goodwin is a longstanding and committed Thistle fan. He revealed his best memory as attending the 1971 League Cup Final and spoke of Gerry Britton as King of Spain in a way you would only do if steeped in Thistle culture. Worth a listen. Obviously lots of relevant experience and a calm and intelligent speaker. Just to add his involvement with clubs like Stirling Albion, st mirren, Dunfermline etc has been a professional one advising and helping fan groups with community ownership ....so from that perspective a good guy to have on board if it can work for st mirren, Dunfermline and Motherwell no reason it can’t work for us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Fawlty Towers said: Confirmation Statement It is a couple of year since this had been updated. Thanks for that, but unfortunately this is what clicking on the link produces for me: This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below. <Error> <Code>AccessDenied</Code> <Message>Request has expired</Message> <X-Amz-Expires>60</X-Amz-Expires> <Expires>2019-09-04T05:55:58Z</Expires> <ServerTime>2019-09-04T07:02:49Z</ServerTime> <RequestId>B2C2900D744BBE19</RequestId> <HostId> bqOUOkv6RcUm+qWjt28LVMBLjExANlWtbXyQdoda+rEMjCyxf8wqe4Oj+NY5ecnsHDT2el3KYqc= </HostId> </Error> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 9 hours ago, Pinhead said: If this happens i am gone, as soon as these loonballs own the club it will be as bad as the Jags Trust - we will be dead within 5 years I think that you are conflating fan ownership (as shareholders) with an inexperienced committee of fans running the club (as directors). The executive function should always be performed by people with the relevant skills and experience. These are the people who will have the day to day responsibility for running the club. It is not essential that they support the club, provided they can discharge their executive function in a manner which promotes the success of the club. All that fan ownership will do is to give supporters the ultimate say in the big strategic decisions - for example a sale / appointment of the board etc. The board would still be responsible for, eg managerial appointments, but the shareholders periodically have the opportunity to hold the board to account. Have a look at company law for a better understanding of shareholder rights. If you were to construct a logical argument against fan ownership, it would probably be around the turning off of the philanthropic tap of wealthy individuals who don’t really have an affinity with the club, but view it as a vanity project - for example Mike Ashley at Newcastle. You might view that as a good thing, or you might think that it’s something which might limit the club’s ability to push ahead, but it does result in greater responsibility for the success of the club being placed with the supporters. If funds need to be raised, it would be down to us, but if we own it, then that’s only fair. I do think that you’re doing the concept a disservice, however, if you just take the view that fans can’t agree on the simplest things on an Internet forum, so can’t possibly run a football club. The concept doesn’t call for them to run the football club in the first place. 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 11 hours ago, Pinhead said: If this happens i am gone, as soon as these loonballs own the club it will be as bad as the Jags Trust - we will be dead within 5 years Could be dead long before that with the things that are happening just now , maybe we should take Bury as a warning sign ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Jaggernaut said: Thanks for that, but unfortunately this is what clicking on the link produces for me: This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below. <Error> <Code>AccessDenied</Code> <Message>Request has expired</Message> <X-Amz-Expires>60</X-Amz-Expires> <Expires>2019-09-04T05:55:58Z</Expires> <ServerTime>2019-09-04T07:02:49Z</ServerTime> <RequestId>B2C2900D744BBE19</RequestId> <HostId> bqOUOkv6RcUm+qWjt28LVMBLjExANlWtbXyQdoda+rEMjCyxf8wqe4Oj+NY5ecnsHDT2el3KYqc= </HostId> </Error> Google search for “companies house beta”. On the website homepage, plug “Partick Thistle Football Club” into the search bar. The first entry will be the club. Click “filing history”. The entry that you are looking for is the “confirmation statement” which is dated 9 Jan 2018 - the entries are in date order, so it’s easy enough to find. Click the “view pdf” button and you’ll find the list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakey Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 This looks like a good idea to me. I also agree with much of what they have stated regarding the current status at the club. I've given an initial pledge. Would be great if this can unite our fanbase in some way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 17 hours ago, jaf said: I understand where you are coming from, but there are two issues with this : 1. It reduces future and/or potential income to the club 2. Only by holding shares can the fans be assured of proper representation - and for that therefore to be democratic This is the best model for this kind of plan. Well done to the guys who have invested time to get this established and test the commitment of Thistle fans to own their club. Fair enough I hadn't really thought that thru. Still believe it would be beneficial if there were also other imaginative methods of raising cash for shares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 "It is essential that, every Board member will have to be a member of the supporters’ group that appoints the Board" Interesting statement from the Thistle Forever Website - so the Supporters Group will exclusively appoint the Board - so what about the other 49% of the Shareholders - does there views not count - also you could be a Season Ticket Holder & a Shareholder but if your not in the "Gang" your excluded from standing for elections to the Board - is this the New Democracy ? Fans with the requisite skills and experience will be able to apply but it won’t be possible for someone without the appropriate skills to simply be voted onto the Board Who decides what the requisite Skills are ? - the Thistle Forever Trustees ? - Paul Goodwin ? - Who decides on the "appropriate skills " - Paul Goodwin ? Now it all sounds very professional but here is my issue - Yes they are right to question what Direction the Clubs going in - but by definition that implies they were happy with the previous incumbents- otherwise they would have launched this previously ? Also if they dont hit the targets - but a benefactor offers to fund the purchase - but wants there own couple of people on the Board - are they going to say No ? Nor will it be possible for anyone to ‘buy’ a seat on the Board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggymct Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 7 hours ago, Jaggernaut said: Is there a publicly available list of all shareholders of PTFC and how many of what kind of shares they own? this is the most up to date that's available online ptfc .pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggymct Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 In the podcast they say that they are not trying to be a new Fan Group (like jags tust or PTFC supporters trust) they are just trying to facilitate a change, they envisage other established Fan Groups (ideally merged) to represent the fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 47 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: "It is essential that, every Board member will have to be a member of the supporters’ group that appoints the Board" Interesting statement from the Thistle Forever Website - so the Supporters Group will exclusively appoint the Board - so what about the other 49% of the Shareholders - does there views not count - also you could be a Season Ticket Holder & a Shareholder but if your not in the "Gang" your excluded from standing for elections to the Board - is this the New Democracy ? Fans with the requisite skills and experience will be able to apply but it won’t be possible for someone without the appropriate skills to simply be voted onto the Board Who decides what the requisite Skills are ? - the Thistle Forever Trustees ? - Paul Goodwin ? - Who decides on the "appropriate skills " - Paul Goodwin ? Now it all sounds very professional but here is my issue - Yes they are right to question what Direction the Clubs going in - but by definition that implies they were happy with the previous incumbents- otherwise they would have launched this previously ? Also if they dont hit the targets - but a benefactor offers to fund the purchase - but wants there own couple of people on the Board - are they going to say No ? Nor will it be possible for anyone to ‘buy’ a seat on the Board. I’m not sure they’ve necessarily said they were happy with the status quo. It’s perfectly possible to have been unhappy with the previous board but also have concerns about the Chien Lee consortium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 12 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said: I’m not sure they’ve necessarily said they were happy with the status quo. It’s perfectly possible to have been unhappy with the previous board but also have concerns about the Chien Lee consortium. They have clearly stated that the proposed takeover has set this into action - therefore given that there was no attempt in having a Fans Rep on Board from either of the Trusts - nor was there any attempt to unite them under the Old Board - then why didn't we hear from this concerned Group of Fans - where were the searching questions at the AGM at the last Board Meeting from those within there midst who are ShareHolders - just seems a bit odd that they have only suddenly discovered there voices - anyway lets see what develops - its there Gang and its there Gang Rules as to how they see the future as clearly stated on there Website - Fans have concerns and the lack of info on the takeover from the Club is shambolic - but lets put everyone looking to take Control under the same scrutiny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 20 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: They have clearly stated that the proposed takeover has set this into action - therefore given that there was no attempt in having a Fans Rep on Board from either of the Trusts - nor was there any attempt to unite them under the Old Board - then why didn't we hear from this concerned Group of Fans - where were the searching questions at the AGM at the last Board Meeting from those within there midst who are ShareHolders - just seems a bit odd that they have only suddenly discovered there voices - anyway lets see what develops - its there Gang and its there Gang Rules as to how they see the future as clearly stated on there Website - Fans have concerns and the lack of info on the takeover from the Club is shambolic - but lets put everyone looking to take Control under the same scrutiny I agree that every group should come under scrutiny, just don’t agree that the fact this didn’t happen under the old board means that those involved were all happy with the old board. Then again I don’t know those concerned so maybe they were! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 I don't think it is a case of not being unhappy with the old board. More a case of being extremely concerned by the prospects of Chien/Conway and whatever happens following that. (Which happens to be my own view, so maybe I'm reading what I want to read) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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