javeajag Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) AGM on 26 September....they heard I was in Spain Edited September 6, 2019 by javeajag 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 26 minutes ago, javeajag said: AGM on 26 September....they heard I was in Spain.....wonder why it’s now..... anyway here they are ..... Partick Thistle Football Club (CH).pdf Link doesn’t work (maybe doesn’t allow to share( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firhillista Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 26 minutes ago, javeajag said: AGM on 26 September....they heard I was in Spain.....wonder why it’s now..... anyway here they are ..... Eh, naw they're no'!..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) beyond my tech ability....they are there when I click on it ?! Edited September 6, 2019 by javeajag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 Just now, javeajag said: beyond my tech ability....they are there when I click on it ?! Partick Thistle Football Club (CH).pdf Sorry, there is a problem This attachment is not available. It may have been removed or the person who shared it may not have permission to share it to this location. Error code: 2C171/1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 This might work https://www.wearethistle.co.uk/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=828 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 17 minutes ago, javeajag said: This might work https://www.wearethistle.co.uk/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=828 Still not, maybe it’s a protected format that prevents sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander livingstone Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 When is the he AGM usually held? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 Ok screen shots.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander livingstone Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 Thankd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 Its only half the story and I suppose needs to be read in conjunction with the budget - which wont be published obviously, however - Pros Cash generation despite paying two management teams for much of the season Operating profit Cons All the bumper parachute and extra cash from Celtic European payment gone in one season If the budget was to be maintained at last years levels (as suggested), I struggle to see how the 2019/20 books could be balanced (with the reduction in income (I will try to do a reconciliation of this with some basic assumptions) Definitely not the financial Armageddon that had been rumoured, and a vindication of the old board to an extent. Hopefully (to those who will be there) there will be some explanation at the AGM as to why they felt they needed to act, with it surely being : 1. the 2019/20 budgets concerns 2. a desire to boost net assets to maximise their deal 3. to facilitate a smoother transaction than was happening under the previous board - in which case why the financial comments at the time The question for some ordinary fans, and The Jags Trust is - have we been played? And the answer to that should be made clear at the AGM - but I guess we ought not to hold our collective breath on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 10 minutes ago, jaf said: Its only half the story and I suppose needs to be read in conjunction with the budget - which wont be published obviously, however - Pros Cash generation despite paying two management teams for much of the season Operating profit Cons All the bumper parachute and extra cash from Celtic European payment gone in one season If the budget was to be maintained at last years levels (as suggested), I struggle to see how the 2019/20 books could be balanced (with the reduction in income (I will try to do a reconciliation of this with some basic assumptions) Definitely not the financial Armageddon that had been rumoured, and a vindication of the old board to an extent. Hopefully (to those who will be there) there will be some explanation at the AGM as to why they felt they needed to act, with it surely being : 1. the 2019/20 budgets concerns 2. a desire to boost net assets to maximise their deal 3. to facilitate a smoother transaction than was happening under the previous board - in which case why the financial comments at the time The question for some ordinary fans, and The Jags Trust is - have we been played? And the answer to that should be made clear at the AGM - but I guess we ought not to hold our collective breath on that one. Yes not what was expected reinforces my view that the old guard coming back was all about selling the club....the finances were clearly a smoke screen 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 We now have some more info and so can speculate on the budget issue. We have been told by the CEO, and members of both boards, and I think even the manager that playing budget was same as last year, so using that as an assumption. EXPENSES would not vary if playing budget same, £3m - with an extra £300k pledged in January - after the start we have had, lets assume that was needed - £3.3m INCOME (excluding transfer income) - last year £3m from that deduct some things which I am unsure of the amounts but these are best guesses : Parachute differential - £500k UEFA payment - £200k Celtic Cup game & tv - £125k Total assumed non recurring income - £825k Restated income for coming season - £2.175m Excess of expenditure over income £1.125m Less transfer fees (assume £500k) - £625k shortfall remains Opening cash - £667k Assumed cash at May 2020 - £42k If that was close to the budget, I can see why current board acted. So my summary is historic accounts vindicate old board, but the also allow us to make assumptions on the budgets and those do not look clever. To be fair to the previous board, they did say the extra £300k had secured funding but we never knew whether this was debt or income. As with most things in life, based on what we know rather than rumour or opinions, it looks like the truth in all this financial stuff has been somewhere in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, javeajag said: Yes not what was expected reinforces my view that the old guard coming back was all about selling the club....the finances were clearly a smoke screen Making a £40k profit after relegation on paper seems ok, even though it includes parachute payments & Celtic money (£800k). The issue I see if this years budget is the same, then without the Celtic money and Parachute payment then we are budgeting to make a substantial loss unless additional funds come forth (Weir, Winning League, Long Cup Runs) Based on this I can see why the board acted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, jaf said: We now have some more info and so can speculate on the budget issue. We have been told by the CEO, and members of both boards, and I think even the manager that playing budget was same as last year, so using that as an assumption. EXPENSES would not vary if playing budget same, £3m - with an extra £300k pledged in January - after the start we have had, lets assume that was needed - £3.3m INCOME (excluding transfer income) - last year £3m from that deduct some things which I am unsure of the amounts but these are best guesses : Parachute differential - £500k UEFA payment - £200k Celtic Cup game & tv - £125k Total assumed non recurring income - £825k Restated income for coming season - £2.175m Excess of expenditure over income £1.125m Less transfer fees (assume £500k) - £625k shortfall remains Opening cash - £667k Assumed cash at May 2020 - £42k If that was close to the budget, I can see why current board acted. So my summary is historic accounts vindicate old board, but the also allow us to make assumptions on the budgets and those do not look clever. To be fair to the previous board, they did say the extra £300k had secured funding but we never knew whether this was debt or income. As with most things in life, based on what we know rather than rumour or opinions, it looks like the truth in all this financial stuff has been somewhere in the middle. As we all know the budget may or may not be an issue I suspect the new board will endeavour nit to enlighten us....however there WERE cutbacks on playing staff and non playing staff so the budget was already going down for example a smaller number of players costing less so expenses are probably so the £1.7m is around £1.2m which more than covers the purported budget shortfall and could even be higher if you add in the cup run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Norgethistle said: Making a £40k profit after relegation on paper seems ok, even though it includes parachute payments & Celtic money (£800k). The issue I see if this years budget is the same, then without the Celtic money and Parachute payment then we are budgeting to make a substantial loss unless additional funds come forth (Weir, Winning League, Long Cup Runs) Based on this I can see why the board acted We have reduced expenditure to playing and non playing staff Santander would nit fund any shortfall it’s not at all clear on these numbers what the disaster was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, javeajag said: We have reduced expenditure to playing and non playing staff Santander would nit fund any shortfall it’s not at all clear on these numbers what the disaster was Players budget was stated as being the same plus an additional £300k to be made available in January. Non playering staff we cut some then hired others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, javeajag said: As we all know the budget may or may not be an issue I suspect the new board will endeavour nit to enlighten us....however there WERE cutbacks on playing staff and non playing staff so the budget was already going down for example a smaller number of players costing less so expenses are probably so the £1.7m is around £1.2m which more than covers the purported budget shortfall and could even be higher if you add in the cup run Gerry B stated the Playing Budget was the same as last Year - thats without the additional monies from Liam & Fitzy Non Playing staff - Four from the Office - two of which were Part Time - one of which wasnt on a large Salary - couple of kit type people - also the two Accounts people made redundant were being replaced by outsourcing - so the cost wasnt wiped out - you are looking at £120K Tops in staff cost reduction - The New Board will defo be getting asked the Question -and Im pretty sure they will answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Players budget was stated as being the same plus an additional £300k to be made available in January. Non playering staff we cut some then hired others Yes but the 300k never materialised and playing staff was reduced from 35 to 24 plus additional cuts the reality is we have the accounts and you are adding speculation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, javeajag said: We have reduced expenditure to playing and non playing staff Santander would nit fund any shortfall it’s not at all clear on these numbers what the disaster was Sorry this is just wrong The playing budget was publicly stated as being the same as last year The non playing staff may have been some minor savings here - but remember some of their roles were outsourced so you are not saving all the salary - to suggest that saving is £500k is fanciful. Also my calculation above has ignore any minor savings but has also ignored, for example, Hearts cup game and replay You also have to remember the budget was set before transfer income was known. I think there have been some balanced evidential posts in this thread - you are just making things up to support the position you want to land in. I know my calculation is rough and ready, back of a fag packet stuff, and I accept it is entirely speculative, but frankly if it was so easy to trim costs by £500k, why wasn't it done sooner?! I don't believe there has been a £500k saving made since May. The board need to be asked why they acted, and then we will all know for sure. Edited September 6, 2019 by jaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Gerry B stated the Playing Budget was the same as last Year - thats without the additional monies from Liam & Fitzy Non Playing staff - Four from the Office - two of which were Part Time - one of which wasnt on a large Salary - couple of kit type people - also the two Accounts people made redundant were being replaced by outsourcing - so the cost wasnt wiped out - you are looking at £120K Tops in staff cost reduction - The New Board will defo be getting asked the Question -and Im pretty sure they will answer Budget isn’t actual we might not spend it i could turn it round and say the new board is taking a risk by not cutting back ?! anyway finances managed better than you thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, jaf said: Sorry this is just wrong The playing budget was publicly stated as being the same as last year The non playing staff may have been some minor savings here - but remember some of their roles were outsourced so you are not saving all the salary - to suggest that saving is £500k is fanciful. Also my calculation above has ignore any minor savings but has also ignored, for example, Hearts cup game and replay Budget ......what has been spent ? Don’t know .....smoke and mirrors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 1 minute ago, javeajag said: Budget isn’t actual we might not spend it i could turn it round and say the new board is taking a risk by not cutting back ?! anyway finances managed better than you thought Caldwell would definitely spend it, remember the uproar when his budget was realigned and he wasn’t getting another 4 players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 Just now, Norgethistle said: Caldwell would definitely spend it, remember the uproar when his budget was realigned and he wasn’t getting another 4 players But in January he didn't spend the reported £300k, so again you are making assumptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Dick Dastardly said: But in January he didn't spend the reported £300k, so again you are making assumptions. The £300k was for the coming January DD And at The Open Day Gerry Britton denied this theory about a big underspend in January past Edited September 6, 2019 by jaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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