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Annual Accounts....


javeajag
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Just now, javeajag said:

beyond my tech ability....they are there when I click on it ?!

Partick Thistle Football Club (CH).pdf

 

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Its only half the story and I suppose needs to be read in conjunction with the budget - which wont be published obviously, however -

Pros

Cash generation despite paying two management teams for much of the season

Operating profit

Cons

All the bumper parachute and extra cash from Celtic European payment  gone in one season

If the budget was to be maintained at last years levels (as suggested), I struggle to see how the 2019/20 books could be balanced (with the reduction in income (I will try to do a reconciliation of this with some basic assumptions)

 

Definitely not the financial Armageddon that had been rumoured, and a vindication of the old board to an extent.    Hopefully (to those who will be there) there will be some explanation at the AGM as to why they felt they needed to act, with it surely being :

1. the 2019/20 budgets concerns

2. a desire to boost net assets to maximise their deal

3. to facilitate a smoother transaction than was happening under the previous board - in which case why the financial comments at the time

The question for some ordinary fans, and The Jags Trust is - have we been played?  And the answer to that should be made clear at the AGM - but I guess we ought not to hold our collective breath on that one.

 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, jaf said:

 

Its only half the story and I suppose needs to be read in conjunction with the budget - which wont be published obviously, however -

Pros

Cash generation despite paying two management teams for much of the season

Operating profit

Cons

All the bumper parachute and extra cash from Celtic European payment  gone in one season

If the budget was to be maintained at last years levels (as suggested), I struggle to see how the 2019/20 books could be balanced (with the reduction in income (I will try to do a reconciliation of this with some basic assumptions)

 

Definitely not the financial Armageddon that had been rumoured, and a vindication of the old board to an extent.    Hopefully (to those who will be there) there will be some explanation at the AGM as to why they felt they needed to act, with it surely being :

1. the 2019/20 budgets concerns

2. a desire to boost net assets to maximise their deal

3. to facilitate a smoother transaction than was happening under the previous board - in which case why the financial comments at the time

The question for some ordinary fans, and The Jags Trust is - have we been played?  And the answer to that should be made clear at the AGM - but I guess we ought not to hold our collective breath on that one.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes not what was expected

reinforces my view that the old guard coming back was all about selling the club....the finances were clearly a smoke screen 

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We now have some more info and so can speculate on the budget issue.

We have been told by the CEO, and members of both boards, and I think even the manager that playing budget was same as last year, so using that as an assumption.

EXPENSES would not vary if playing budget same, £3m - with an extra £300k pledged in January - after the start we have had, lets assume that was needed - £3.3m

INCOME (excluding transfer income) - last year £3m

from that deduct some things which I am unsure of the amounts but these are best guesses :

Parachute differential - £500k

UEFA payment - £200k

Celtic Cup game & tv - £125k

Total assumed non recurring income - £825k

Restated income for coming season - £2.175m

Excess of expenditure over income £1.125m

Less transfer fees (assume £500k) - £625k shortfall remains

Opening cash - £667k

Assumed cash at May 2020 - £42k

 

If that was close to the budget, I can see why current board acted.

So my summary is historic accounts vindicate old board, but the also allow us to make assumptions on the budgets and those do not look clever.

To be fair to the previous board, they did say the extra £300k had secured funding but we never knew whether this was debt or income.

As with most things in life, based on what we know rather than rumour or opinions, it looks like the truth in all this financial stuff has been somewhere in the middle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Yes not what was expected

reinforces my view that the old guard coming back was all about selling the club....the finances were clearly a smoke screen 

Making a £40k profit after relegation on paper seems ok, even though it includes parachute payments & Celtic money (£800k).

The issue I see if this years budget is the same, then without the Celtic money and Parachute payment then we are budgeting to make a substantial loss unless additional funds come forth (Weir, Winning League, Long Cup Runs)

Based on this I can see why the board acted

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4 minutes ago, jaf said:

 

We now have some more info and so can speculate on the budget issue.

We have been told by the CEO, and members of both boards, and I think even the manager that playing budget was same as last year, so using that as an assumption.

EXPENSES would not vary if playing budget same, £3m - with an extra £300k pledged in January - after the start we have had, lets assume that was needed - £3.3m

INCOME (excluding transfer income) - last year £3m

from that deduct some things which I am unsure of the amounts but these are best guesses :

Parachute differential - £500k

UEFA payment - £200k

Celtic Cup game & tv - £125k

Total assumed non recurring income - £825k

Restated income for coming season - £2.175m

Excess of expenditure over income £1.125m

Less transfer fees (assume £500k) - £625k shortfall remains

Opening cash - £667k

Assumed cash at May 2020 - £42k

 

If that was close to the budget, I can see why current board acted.

So my summary is historic accounts vindicate old board, but the also allow us to make assumptions on the budgets and those do not look clever.

To be fair to the previous board, they did say the extra £300k had secured funding but we never knew whether this was debt or income.

As with most things in life, based on what we know rather than rumour or opinions, it looks like the truth in all this financial stuff has been somewhere in the middle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As we all know the budget may or may not be an issue I suspect the new board will endeavour nit to enlighten us....however there WERE cutbacks on playing staff and non playing staff so the budget was already going down for example a smaller number of players costing less so expenses are probably so the £1.7m is around £1.2m which more than covers the purported budget shortfall and could even be higher if you add in the cup run

 

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1 minute ago, Norgethistle said:

Making a £40k profit after relegation on paper seems ok, even though it includes parachute payments & Celtic money (£800k).

The issue I see if this years budget is the same, then without the Celtic money and Parachute payment then we are budgeting to make a substantial loss unless additional funds come forth (Weir, Winning League, Long Cup Runs)

Based on this I can see why the board acted

We have reduced expenditure to playing and non playing staff 

Santander would nit fund any shortfall 

it’s not at all clear on these numbers what the disaster was

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2 minutes ago, javeajag said:

We have reduced expenditure to playing and non playing staff 

Santander would nit fund any shortfall 

it’s not at all clear on these numbers what the disaster was

Players budget was stated as being the same plus an additional £300k to be made available in January.

Non playering staff we cut some then hired others

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5 minutes ago, javeajag said:

As we all know the budget may or may not be an issue I suspect the new board will endeavour nit to enlighten us....however there WERE cutbacks on playing staff and non playing staff so the budget was already going down for example a smaller number of players costing less so expenses are probably so the £1.7m is around £1.2m which more than covers the purported budget shortfall and could even be higher if you add in the cup run

 

Gerry B stated the Playing Budget was the same as last Year  - thats without the additional monies from Liam & Fitzy 

Non Playing staff - Four from the Office - two of which were Part Time - one of which  wasnt on a large Salary - couple of kit type people - also the two Accounts people made redundant were being replaced by outsourcing - so the cost wasnt wiped out - you are looking at £120K Tops in staff cost reduction -  

The New Board will defo be getting asked the Question -and Im pretty sure they will answer 

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3 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Players budget was stated as being the same plus an additional £300k to be made available in January.

Non playering staff we cut some then hired others

Yes but the 300k never materialised and playing staff was reduced from 35 to 24 plus additional cuts

the reality is we have the accounts and you are adding speculation

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13 minutes ago, javeajag said:

We have reduced expenditure to playing and non playing staff 

Santander would nit fund any shortfall 

it’s not at all clear on these numbers what the disaster was

Sorry this is just wrong

The playing budget was publicly stated as being the same as last year

The non playing staff may have been some minor savings here - but remember some of their roles were outsourced so you are not saving all the salary - to suggest that saving is £500k is fanciful.

Also my calculation above has ignore any minor savings but has also ignored, for example,  Hearts cup game and replay

You also have to remember the budget was set before transfer income was known.

I think there have been some balanced evidential posts in this thread - you are just making things up to support the position you want to land in. I know my calculation is rough and ready, back of a fag packet stuff, and I accept it is entirely speculative, but frankly if it was so easy to trim costs by £500k, why wasn't it done sooner?!  I don't believe there has been a £500k saving made since May.

The board need to be asked why they acted, and then we will all know for sure.

 

 

Edited by jaf
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2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Gerry B stated the Playing Budget was the same as last Year  - thats without the additional monies from Liam & Fitzy 

Non Playing staff - Four from the Office - two of which were Part Time - one of which  wasnt on a large Salary - couple of kit type people - also the two Accounts people made redundant were being replaced by outsourcing - so the cost wasnt wiped out - you are looking at £120K Tops in staff cost reduction -  

The New Board will defo be getting asked the Question -and Im pretty sure they will answer 

 Budget isn’t actual we might not spend it

i could turn it round and say the  new board is taking a risk by not cutting back ?!

anyway finances managed better than you thought 

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2 minutes ago, jaf said:

Sorry this is just wrong

The playing budget was publicly stated as being the same as last year

The non playing staff may have been some minor savings here - but remember some of their roles were outsourced so you are not saving all the salary - to suggest that saving is £500k is fanciful.

Also my calculation above has ignore any minor savings but has also ignored, for example,  Hearts cup game and replay

 

 

Budget ......what has been spent ? Don’t know .....smoke and mirrors 

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1 minute ago, javeajag said:

 Budget isn’t actual we might not spend it

i could turn it round and say the  new board is taking a risk by not cutting back ?!

anyway finances managed better than you thought 

Caldwell would definitely spend it, remember the uproar when his budget was realigned and he wasn’t getting another 4 players

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1 minute ago, Dick Dastardly said:

But in January he didn't spend the reported £300k, so again you are making assumptions.

The £300k was for the coming January DD

And at The Open Day Gerry Britton denied this theory about a big underspend in January past

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