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You don't think the "toxicity" was increased by the attitude of some fans, who appeared to have a personal grudge against Caldwell from the moment he arrived?

Dont get me wrong, I think Caldwell was a terrible manager for us, I can understand why his personality wasn't to everyone's liking, and I think his transfers in the summer have been hopeless in term of personnel and balance, and he's left us in a mess.

But I think that when you talk of toxicity it's something that goes beyond the football, to a divisiveness among club staff, board and, importantly, fans. In that regard I don't think the angry and at times abusive culture that we've seen on here has been helpful, and it seemed to be continuous regardless of results on the park.

So I think we all have to look at ourselves and consider whether we're going to come together as a club under the next manager, or if we'd rather keep our petty one-upmanship going just so that we can insult and abuse those who disagree with us.

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Indeed. Which meant there was in effect, no game plan, other than the crappy tip-tap-play-it-slowly-from-the-back which Caldo had drummed into them.

I did think it would have been an idea to switch Zanatta and Cardle (a la Lawrie and McQuade) but that was clearly well beyond the team in the dug out.

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Don't want to be too hard on  Scott Allison or Gerry Briton but if the position does not get filled on Monday we should approach maybe Gary Harkins and Miller to take the team.  The team was not set correctly and I think the two players mentioned would be better suited.

On to the to the game and Tam O'Ware is at fault for the first two goals. Never closed down Kevin Nisbet quickly enough for the first goal and make a poor effort to block Dow for the second goal. Don't think you can blame him but he got the deflection for the third goal as well! 

The only midfielder we have with some dig was sitting on the bench in Palmer and De vita's experience in midfield was needed. Banzo continued his poor form and was not suited to playing further forward. We did not seem to know where everybody was supposed to be at times. 

Dunfermline was well drilled in defending the switch to play to either wing and we failed to exploit the extra space through the middle which should have been available, 

The main difference for me is the way Dunfermline pressed the ball - they put us under pressure when we got into the danger areas - compare that to us and we made it far too easy.  For example they way Dunfermline pressed us down  our left with Penrice and Mcginty - clear pre-planned and we failed to change to combat this. In the end, it leads to the second goal. 

The game was lost but the latter stages but our main attacking option seemed to play a clearly tiring Kakay down the right-hand side.  Because of the formation switch, he had nobody helping him and only had one option open to him and the opposing full-back can set himself up to defend that. Why the two in our dugout did nothing to change this I do not now. Very frustrating to watch. 

 

Edited by Alan Murray
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Just now, Alan Murray said:

Don't want to be too hard on  Scott Allison or Gerry Briton but if the position does not get filled on Monday we should approach maybe Gary Harkings and Miller to take the team.  The team was not set correctly and I think the two players mentioned would be better suited.

On to the to the game and Tam O'Ware is at fault for the first two goals. Never closed down Kevin Nisbet quickly enough for the first goal and make a poor effort to block Dow for the second goal. Don't think you can blame him but he got the deflection for the third goal as well! 

The only midfielder we have with some dig was sitting on the bench in Palmer and De vita's experience in midfield was needed. Banzo continued his poor form and was not suited to playing further forward. We did not seem to know where everybody was supposed to be at times. 

Dunfermline was well drilled in defending the switch to play to either wing and we failed to exploit the extra space through the middle which should have been available, 

The main difference for me is the way Dunfermline pressed the ball - they put us under pressure when we got into the danger areas - compare that to us and we made it far too easy.  For example they way Dunfermline pressed us down  our left with Penrice and Mcginty - clear pre-planned and we failed to change to combat this. In the end, it leads to the second goal. 

The game was lost but the latter stages but our main attacking option seemed to play a clearly tiring Kakay down the right-hand side.  Because of the formation switch, he had nobody helping him and only had one option open to him and the opposing full-back can set himself up to defend that. Why the two in our dugout did nothing to change this I do not now. Very frustrating to watch. 

 

I’m sure there’s a lot of sense in your post but I’m afraid I stopped reading after the suggestion that Gary Harkins manages the team. On what basis?

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1 minute ago, KemoAvdiu said:

I’m sure there’s a lot of sense in your post but I’m afraid I stopped reading after the suggestion that Gary Harkins manages the team. On what basis?

He is an experienced player who knows this level well. I don't want to be too hard on Gerry or Scott but it would be better if they did not take the team again. 

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39 minutes ago, allyo said:

You don't think the "toxicity" was increased by the attitude of some fans, who appeared to have a personal grudge against Caldwell from the moment he arrived?

Dont get me wrong, I think Caldwell was a terrible manager for us, I can understand why his personality wasn't to everyone's liking, and I think his transfers in the summer have been hopeless in term of personnel and balance, and he's left us in a mess.

But I think that when you talk of toxicity it's something that goes beyond the football, to a divisiveness among club staff, board and, importantly, fans. In that regard I don't think the angry and at times abusive culture that we've seen on here has been helpful, and it seemed to be continuous regardless of results on the park.

So I think we all have to look at ourselves and consider whether we're going to come together as a club under the next manager, or if we'd rather keep our petty one-upmanship going just so that we can insult and abuse those who disagree with us.

YES! GC was a man who was not suited to being a manager in that he knew the 'theory' but could not do the 'practical' part of the job. The warning signs were there from his previous appointments, but were ignored.

He tried his best and it was not good enough, but he did not plan to mess with the club, he didn't want to fail to meet his target of top four last season. Some of the verbiage spouted on this forum since he was appointed would lead you to assume the guy deliberately set out to ruin PTFC. It is one thing to be passionate about your club, but it is another to be deluded and spiteful towards a guy who tried his best, and was found wanting.

I cant really blame Ms Low on the GC appointment, she knows SFA about football and appointed GC as he met what she considered to be the prerequisites to be the football manager of PTFC. Why was she ever given that position of trust? …… that's a question I don't have an answer to.

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1 hour ago, allyo said:

You don't think the "toxicity" was increased by the attitude of some fans, who appeared to have a personal grudge against Caldwell from the moment he arrived?

Dont get me wrong, I think Caldwell was a terrible manager for us, I can understand why his personality wasn't to everyone's liking, and I think his transfers in the summer have been hopeless in term of personnel and balance, and he's left us in a mess.

But I think that when you talk of toxicity it's something that goes beyond the football, to a divisiveness among club staff, board and, importantly, fans. In that regard I don't think the angry and at times abusive culture that we've seen on here has been helpful, and it seemed to be continuous regardless of results on the park.

So I think we all have to look at ourselves and consider whether we're going to come together as a club under the next manager, or if we'd rather keep our petty one-upmanship going just so that we can insult and abuse those who disagree with us.

That all came from Caldo the Clown's attitude to those who disagreed with him.  Ask Squiddy, ask Dools.

He's still spouting his David-Brent-fantasy-football pyshe it on BBC sport. 'Left the club in great shape' - if that's the measure of his disconnection from reality the guy needs to see a shrink. 

Allison's interview was a coded text along the lines of 'now we can all pull together ...' it was perfectly clear who he was getting at.

There was a guy sitting behind me in the JHS yesterday saying 'I'm sorry Caldwell has gone … I think he was slowly getting it right'! Caldwell deserves all the abuse he had got for bringing the club to this low.

Edited by Semi Nurainen
esprit d'escalier
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1 hour ago, allyo said:

You don't think the "toxicity" was increased by the attitude of some fans, who appeared to have a personal grudge against Caldwell from the moment he arrived?

Dont get me wrong, I think Caldwell was a terrible manager for us, I can understand why his personality wasn't to everyone's liking, and I think his transfers in the summer have been hopeless in term of personnel and balance, and he's left us in a mess.

But I think that when you talk of toxicity it's something that goes beyond the football, to a divisiveness among club staff, board and, importantly, fans. In that regard I don't think the angry and at times abusive culture that we've seen on here has been helpful, and it seemed to be continuous regardless of results on the park.

So I think we all have to look at ourselves and consider whether we're going to come together as a club under the next manager, or if we'd rather keep our petty one-upmanship going just so that we can insult and abuse those who disagree with us.

I must admit I was not impressed when I heard that he was to be our new manager. The reason for that was his record with Wigan and Chesterfield. After his first 6 games when we only managed 1 point I was sure we had made a mistake. Then it improved a bit and after the January window we went a run that would have got us top 4 if we would have replicated it for the whole of the season. I was happy enough he was still in charge for this season and hoped we would continue the form we had shown in the second half of last season. But after only getting 2points from 5 games to start this season, I think the writing was on the wall for another poor season. Whoever the manager is I will always back them and the team as I have done for over 50 years now.

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1 hour ago, Alan Murray said:

He is an experienced player who knows this level well. I don't want to be too hard on Gerry or Scott but it would be better if they did not take the team again. 

Gerry Britton is an even more experienced former player who knows the level well. Scott Allison is also an experienced former player who knows the level well. The suggestion that we appoint Harkins as an alternative caretaker manager is bemusing, but fair play. 

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2 hours ago, Semi Nurainen said:

You were right all along Sandy, I never doubted that.

However it will take a while to rid the club of his toxic legacy (though some clown seems to think that because he was punted on Wednesday, everything should have been fine by Saturday).

The toxicity continues, Caldo claims has left the club in great shape with a great squad of players. Still the David Brent of football.

 

1 hour ago, Jaggernaut said:

As somebody mentioned above, it's starting to look like many of Caldwell's signings might in fact be duds, every bit as bad as the duddest signings by Archie.

Ran out of likes. Both posts spot on. Caldwell's legacy is  to leave the team in a worst state than it was when he first came in.

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Just when you're trying to erase the memory banks, these "highlights" crop up!  The more I see of Fox the more I believe this he is unconvincing at getting down to low shot/headers.  The first goal was hardly a strong shot.  Should he have reached it?  He got lucky with the one he got down to late and the ball broke off him and was cleared.  Even at the 2nd goal (admittedly absolute Cartoon Caper defending) it might be argued he should have made a better attempt.  Discuss.

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34 minutes ago, a f kincaid said:

Just when you're trying to erase the memory banks, these "highlights" crop up!  The more I see of Fox the more I believe this he is unconvincing at getting down to low shot/headers.  The first goal was hardly a strong shot.  Should he have reached it?  He got lucky with the one he got down to late and the ball broke off him and was cleared.  Even at the 2nd goal (admittedly absolute Cartoon Caper defending) it might be argued he should have made a better attempt.  Discuss.

Fox has never inspired me as a keeper. He also seems to have this thing where he kinda jumps like he is going to dive just before he actually dives which probably slows him down reaction wise to save the shot

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59 minutes ago, a f kincaid said:

Just when you're trying to erase the memory banks, these "highlights" crop up!  The more I see of Fox the more I believe this he is unconvincing at getting down to low shot/headers.  The first goal was hardly a strong shot.  Should he have reached it?  He got lucky with the one he got down to late and the ball broke off him and was cleared.  Even at the 2nd goal (admittedly absolute Cartoon Caper defending) it might be argued he should have made a better attempt.  Discuss.

He’s shite.

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Just now, West of Scotland said:

Really? Because he stopped the score against Abroath getting ridiculous.

I didn’t see that game. Based on those I have saw he’s stopped little, flapped at quite a lot and generally left me uninspired. 

I’d play Sneddon before him, but realistically we need better options in this position.  

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25 minutes ago, Chachi said:

I didn’t see that game. Based on those I have saw he’s stopped little, flapped at quite a lot and generally left me uninspired. 

I’d play Sneddon before him, but realistically we need better options in this position.  

There's nothing wrong with the options we've got. It's the defenders in front of whichever keeper is playing that need sorting out.

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4 hours ago, KemoAvdiu said:

Gerry Britton is an even more experienced former player who knows the level well. Scott Allison is also an experienced former player who knows the level well. The suggestion that we appoint Harkins as an alternative caretaker manager is bemusing, but fair play. 

Gerry and Scott have not managed or coached at this level for any length of time for years. Given that plenty of teams put their most experienced players in charge till a new manager is in place I don't see why putting Harkins and Miller in temporary charge is bemusing. 

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1 hour ago, a f kincaid said:

Just when you're trying to erase the memory banks, these "highlights" crop up!  The more I see of Fox the more I believe this he is unconvincing at getting down to low shot/headers.  The first goal was hardly a strong shot.  Should he have reached it?  He got lucky with the one he got down to late and the ball broke off him and was cleared.  Even at the 2nd goal (admittedly absolute Cartoon Caper defending) it might be argued he should have made a better attempt.  Discuss.

I thought he could have got the first one. The second one I am not sure about - the angle behind the goal makes it look very difficult shot to save. 

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33 minutes ago, Chachi said:

I didn’t see that game. Based on those I have saw he’s stopped little, flapped at quite a lot and generally left me uninspired. 

I’d play Sneddon before him, but realistically we need better options in this position.  

Fair enough that you did not see the game.

The reality is Scott Fox stopped that being an Ashes score by half time.

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Just watched the highlights which confirmed whay I thought I saw on saturday.

Looks to me like the first goal is lost as no one is picking up a man. If you didn't know better you would think they were playing some sort of zonal system that forbids marking a man.

Second goal, McGinty is way out of position and as soon as he looses the ball we're at panic stations.

I think we have real problems in defence. McGinty is probably more suited to a 3-5-2, that way he can go on the upfield runs knowing that there is cover. However Penrice and O'Ware are both playing as if they are in a back 4. Kakay looks more like a wingback so we have half a defence that needs a 3-5-2 and half that need a back 4. Thats not a good state of affairs and I think the new manager is going to have to do something radical to sort it.

Might be worth replacing McGinty with Penrice as left centre back, going with Robson at left back and Saunders at right back.

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