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1 minute ago, javeajag said:

I’m for giving the tfe proposal a fair run and I agree it should be subject to scrutiny eg governance etc but the funding had been clarified to some extent but the same scrutiny doesn’t seem to be being given to guys whose proposal and plans are secret and refuse to engage with the fans 

I don’t know Paul Goodwin so can’t speak for him but I’m not sure nit speaking g has much significance ... I’ll judge the tfe proposals on their merits not on what some fans if other clubs think of one guy ... but if Allan heron was the main guy you would be happy ?

Fair enough, The Tfe proposal should be given a fair hearing.

I don't know much about Allan Heron tbh.

Just find it a bit worrying reading all of the negative stuff and Mr Goodwin and it's from fans of various different clubs. 

 

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Well, as Dylan put it, "Nothing was revealed..."

It was probably too much to hope that the AGM would clarify things as it's a meeting of shareholders and they're the people who want to sell the club, but haven't been able to explain who to and for what purpose.

I share some of the concerns about the fan ownership route, but I don't get the hostility it seems to have drawn. It's not like this is a model that's dropped out of space, all alien and threatening. It's been here for some time now. Shouldn't we be asking how is it going at Hearts? St. Mirren? Motherwell?

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9 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

 

David Beattie ran roughshod over Colin Weir possibly not giving him the respect he was due , if you were Colin Beattie what would you do / think ?    Nobody has closed the Academy, the club will have to find an alternative way to fund it 

Beattie didn't run roughshod over Weir.  He made a decision.  He has the power to do so as he has bought into the club with time and money.  He made a decision Colin Weir was against.  He could have got involved in the tough decisions but stays away like a mythical benevolent saint.

With last seasons loss its clear that a club with our size and resources cannot afford to continue the Thistle WEIR Academy. 

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3 minutes ago, AlwaysOutnumbered... said:

Fair enough, The Tfe proposal should be given a fair hearing.

I don't know much about Allan Heron tbh.

Just find it a bit worrying reading all of the negative stuff and Mr Goodwin and it's from fans of various different clubs. 

 

I think all that tells you is that fan ownership is not easy which is why we need the detail but where is the engagement and detail from the private equity guys ?

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1 minute ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

Beattie didn't run roughshod over Weir.  He made a decision.  He has the power to do so as he has bought into the club with time and money.  He made a decision Colin Weir was against.  He could have got involved in the tough decisions but stays away like a mythical benevolent saint.

With last seasons loss its clear that a club with our size and resources cannot afford to continue the Thistle WEIR Academy. 

Sorry, there's nothing mythical about the money Colin Weir has given Partick Thistle. It's made a significant difference to the club and to say that we 'cannot afford' to accept such funding is the most convoluted logic imaginable.

The guy doesn't want to run a football club; he doesn't even seem to want to OWN a football club; he just wants to see the team he supports doing well. Having a go at him for that seems perverse.

 

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51 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

My main concern with fan ownership is - the fans.

...

Currently the board has a track record in business success.  They are fans.  They have put in £ and time which is £ lost from their personal lives.  Much more than Colin Weir has ever done.  He got lucky in a lottery.  Dealing with the boring detail and avoiding ridiculous PR BS like previous people. 

Last night, David Beattie (and I think by extension the entire current board) offered to stay in place as long as it was required. This included beyond the transfer of shares to the new owners. 

While I suspect this was meant in the context of the new owners being the consortium,  what if the current board stayed in place regardless of who the new owners were?  Surely a model of fan ownership coupled with an experienced board is an attractive proposition?

Edited by mgow
Typo: place not pace!
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2 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

Beattie didn't run roughshod over Weir.  He made a decision.  He has the power to do so as he has bought into the club with time and money.  He made a decision Colin Weir was against.  He could have got involved in the tough decisions but stays away like a mythical benevolent saint.

With last seasons loss its clear that a club with our size and resources cannot afford to continue the Thistle WEIR Academy. 

No dialogue or any meeting between both parties as David Beattie has alluded to , pretty much roughshod in my book , Colin Weir was a benefactor who tried to help the Club financially , he wasn’t on a power trip to try and run our Club.

It was poor by Beattie and was done with pound signs in his eyes .

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6 minutes ago, javeajag said:

I think all that tells you is that fan ownership is not easy which is why we need the detail but where is the engagement and detail from the private equity guys ?

Look at the Hibs takeover. There was (to my knowledge) no engagement with the fans or much detail available. It's unfortunate this has came out in the press or through rumours before everything is sorted with dual ownership etc etc. 

I think it's quite right that Thistle forever are given a fair hearing but I also feel you've been too quick to right off the consortium bid. 

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Just now, AlwaysOutnumbered... said:

Look at the Hibs takeover. There was (to my knowledge) no engagement with the fans or much detail available. It's unfortunate this has came out in the press or through rumours before everything is sorted with dual ownership etc etc. 

I think it's quite right that Thistle forever are given a fair hearing but I also feel you've been too quick to right off the consortium bid. 

Its out in the open for four months and despite that this consortium won’t to you who they are , how they are financing buying the club , why they are buying us and what there plans are ? How can you give someone a fair hearing who won’t tell you anything !!!

but this is what it’s going to be like afterwards so at least we have been warned 

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Just now, AlwaysOutnumbered... said:

Look at the Hibs takeover. There was (to my knowledge) no engagement with the fans or much detail available. It's unfortunate this has came out in the press or through rumours before everything is sorted with dual ownership etc etc. 

I think it's quite right that Thistle forever are given a fair hearing but I also feel you've been too quick to right off the consortium bid. 

Surely before anything is made public , you contact the specific authorities SFA and the EFA to see if the deal can actually be done in the first place re dual ownership?

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23 minutes ago, allyo said:

I think that's more to do with people's desperation to argue about something rather than anything specific about the TFe proposal/offer.

Anyway, I have a problem with the TfE acronym. Forever is one word. The capital is in the wrong place

They're not the Only ones to do That...

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26 minutes ago, javeajag said:

I’m for giving the tfe proposal a fair run and I agree it should be subject to scrutiny eg governance etc but the funding had been clarified to some extent but the same scrutiny doesn’t seem to be being given to guys whose proposal and plans are secret and refuse to engage with the fans 

I don’t know Paul Goodwin so can’t speak for him but I’m not sure nit speaking g has much significance ... I’ll judge the tfe proposals on their merits not on what some fans if other clubs think of one guy ... but if Allan heron was the main guy you would be happy ?

Why is Allan Heron not mentioned on the Companies House filings?  Currently only Paul is mentioned who has full control

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22 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

No dialogue or any meeting between both parties as David Beattie has alluded to , pretty much roughshod in my book , Colin Weir was a benefactor who tried to help the Club financially , he wasn’t on a power trip to try and run our Club.

It was poor by Beattie and was done with pound signs in his eyes .

The offer was to buy 9 people’s shares, not the full club. Not Weirs 5% or the academy. The negotiations would be between those 9 people and the buying party.

The Weir academy is a separate legal and financial entity, set up to encourage kids in the community but also aid the club with a pool of kids to select from. Any player that the club does take and then sells generates income for the Weir Academy as they get a percentage (50 I have heard) of any future transfer fee. With Colin pulling funding for HIS academy he is actually impacting HIS income streams for HIS academy.  The whole set up of the academy was to be self sufficient by transfer fees over time. He has been petulant in withdrawing the funding for HIS academy because the board at a DIFFERENT company (Club) removed his person due to what now seems justified concerns over running at a planned significant deficit for this season  

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1 hour ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

My main concern with fan ownership is - the fans.

Ideally you have successful and intelligent business people, breaking even, making unemotional decisions and ignoring the illogical emotional rants of football fans.  Colin Weir is one such fan.  We thanked him, we fawned over him, we named a stand for him (which was madness).  Then there was one potential decision he did not like so he used his emotions, pulled funding directly impacting hundreds of kids and adults and shut down all communication.  Like a child.

Currently the board has a track record in business success.  They are fans.  They have put in £ and time which is £ lost from their personal lives.  Much more than Colin Weir has ever done.  He got lucky in a lottery.  Dealing with the boring detail and avoiding ridiculous PR BS like previous people. 

Colin Weir has turned into a populist power broker offering up £ like a benevolent saint.  As long as he gets his own way (while taking no responsibility).

You've said this is your problem with fan ownership, then just detailed the potential danger in ownership by a single entity.

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4 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

The offer was to buy 9 people’s shares, not the full club. Not Weirs 5% or the academy. The negotiations would be between those 9 people and the buying party.

The Weir academy is a separate legal and financial entity, set up to encourage kids in the community but also aid the club with a pool of kids to select from. Any player that the club does take and then sells generates income for the Weir Academy as they get a percentage (50 I have heard) of any future transfer fee. With Colin pulling funding for HIS academy he is actually impacting HIS income streams for HIS academy.  The whole set up of the academy was to be self sufficient by transfer fees over time. He has been petulant in withdrawing the funding for HIS academy because the board at a DIFFERENT company (Club) removed his person due to what now seems justified concerns over running at a planned significant deficit for this season  

Colin Weir doesn’t run the Academy , the money received from Liam Lindsay and Aiden Fitzpatrick was put straight back into PTFC’s coffers to negate the budget deficit.

The salaries of the Academy’s coaching staff all get paid from the Club, not sure where you’re getting your information from.

If it was your business as you are alluding to , you would obviously be involved in running that business, he only helped us finance the Academy.

Where does the petulant bit come in , Beattie came back on board with his plans ( ? ) and didn’t even have the courtesy to discuss what his plans were and what impact that would have on our Club to a guy who has put in roughly £2 /£3 million over the last 5 years

What reaction did you expect.

 

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3 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Not true, the information given at the AGM is given to the shareholders and them alone, that is the law, they have followed it.

 

3 hours ago, Fawlty Towers said:

I am not an expert but would there not need to be a majority of shareholders in favour to have an EGM and as the majority of shares are owned by those looking to sell it would seem unlikely they would call for one?

An Annual General Meeting (AGM) is the meeting which should be organised by the company in each calendar year, to discuss various business matters. On the other extreme, an Extraordinary General Meeting (EGM) is any meeting other than the AGM in which business concerning company’s management are discussed

[The above is an example taken from the pages of Google]

Would it not be prudent for PTFC to have an EGM to discuss takeover bids, including the possibility of a change in the club management at board level, then explain the possible change in status of the club BoD to the fans?  If after an AGM, the club does not explain to the wider fan base what has been agreed [especially as last nights AGM may have discussed the possible takeover of the club by persons known and unknown] they could be accused of not being inclusive?

Norge, I take your point that PTFC could choose to follow the letter of the law and say zip to anyone other than the shareholders with regards to the outcome of the AGM. Is that a wise thing to do given that this season we have already seen falling attendances, falling ST sales {I don't know that for a fact, but have been told it is so] and general unrest? [the example of 150 odd pages of chatter on the subject of New Owners on this forum I would say is a result of this unrest]

The optimism of the new management team arriving at Firhill will last through till the end of the year [my guess], but if there is nothing settled with regards ownership in the period till then, I believe the club will start to suffer through uncertainty and rumour mongering. 

Edited by ARu-Strathbungo
clarification
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I just don't go for this petulance argument.

If you're helping to fund something, predominantly it seems for community benefit (Partick Thistle being a community asset), and then that something becomes the target of a billionaire takeover, then I just don't see why you would continue to fund it.

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1 hour ago, mgow said:

Last night, David Beattie (and I think by extension the entire current board) offered to stay in place as long as it was required. This included beyond the transfer of shares to the new owners. 

While I suspect this was meant in the context of the new owners being the consortium,  what if the current board stayed in place regardless of who the new owners were?  Surely a model of fan ownership coupled with an experienced board is an attractive proposition?

Yes [IMO]

Edited by ARu-Strathbungo
clarification
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24 minutes ago, allyo said:

I just don't go for this petulance argument.

If you're helping to fund something, predominantly it seems for community benefit (Partick Thistle being a community asset), and then that something becomes the target of a billionaire takeover, then I just don't see why you would continue to fund it.

Totally right , but it looks like David Beattie has/had put all his eggs in the one  basket.

Crazy 

Edited by jlsarmy
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1 hour ago, Firhillista said:

Sorry, there's nothing mythical about the money Colin Weir has given Partick Thistle. It's made a significant difference to the club and to say that we 'cannot afford' to accept such funding is the most convoluted logic imaginable.

The guy doesn't want to run a football club; he doesn't even seem to want to OWN a football club; he just wants to see the team he supports doing well. Having a go at him for that seems perverse.

 

Completely agree with this, he's a supporter and has chosen to wipe out our debt and to fund grassroots elements of the club (potentially other areas too?).  We then had a billionaire consortium apparently taking the club over (communication could perhaps have been better all round) and Colin decided, if there are billionaires involved then they can fund the grassroots part too.  I always got the impression that if the consortium didn't materialise, Colin hadn't ever ruled out stepping back in (for the grassroots element) however several folk on here have implied he went in the huff and walked away from kids futures and coaches lively hoods.

I asked myself,  if I was him would I keep funding something when there's a billionaire owner?  Almost definitely not.

 

I'm delighted Colin Weir was and is a Thistle fan.

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43 minutes ago, That 1 jags fan said:

Colin Weir left very soon after Low a person he brought into the board was kicked out, of course all thistle fans should be thankful but it dose seem like he took the huff.

David Beattie brought Jacqui Low onto the board. Colin Weir is in no position to dictate who's on the board of directors of Partick Thistle, as events have shown.

Was she there because she represented Colin Weir's interests? It's hard to tell, but if she was, it was with the agreement of David Beattie.

I think the reason he stepped back was exactly as was said at the time - he wasn't happy at the prospect of an international consortium buying the club. I kind of get it - it's one thing gifting money to a club that has limited resources, but why would you want to do that for a club owned by billionaires?

Edited by Firhillista
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45 minutes ago, That 1 jags fan said:

Colin Weir left very soon after Low a person he brought into the board was kicked out, of course all thistle fans should be thankful but it dose seem like he took the huff.

Don't know if you're making a specific point or simply indicating a fact so I'm not disagreeing with you as such . As for taking the huff, it certainly appeared that way. But in a matter of weeks he's back in the picture.

It's perfectly feasible Colin Weir threw the toys out the pram and was walking away for good. In fact I thought his reactions quite normal in terms of human nature. It's also just as feasible he was always open to investing (re-investing?) in a fan buy out or some other similar mechanism to at least retain the status quo. Gifting 19%(?) to set up the PTFC Trust is at least surely taken as an indication of where the man's sentiments lie in relation to ownership.

The present Board are unable to have even a clear the air meeting with CW yet TfE have not only made contact but already arranged financial assurances from him. It's natural to jump to the conclusion who is the likely conduit. If that's the case so be it.   

Edited by lady-isobel-barnett
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The Jacqui Low involvement is an interesting one.

If she were to support TfE financially, like any other punter and offer herself for election to the board like any other member of TfE, are we saying that she would not be eligible ? I think it unlikely that she would get the required votes, but I can't see how she can be prevented from standing. It is therefore a very difficult question for TfE to answer regarding her involvement

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