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lady-isobel-barnett

Squad as of Now

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I'm sure we all realise that the squad isn't up to it. At best you could say it's imbalanced. Both talking  to other fans and reading others views it's clear to me that we all rate individual players differently. Below are my opinions of some of the players. Bad points/Good points. I've left out Bannigan, Penrice, Miller and the two goalies as, tho' they're far from perfect, I think they're consistently good enough at 2nd tier level. Also left out Cole & Kakay as they're only here till January. Left in Palmer as I imagine there's a probability of an extension should we require.  Plain forgot about Mitchell.

Williamson- won't/can't tackle, not sure about heading either/When forward can put in quick quality balls.

Robson- less feart than Williamson but light weight defending and less effective going forward/Gets himself in space to receive the ball.

Saunders- most senior and experienced defender but doesn't appear to organise back line effectively, prone to error too often/Reasonable threat at attacking set  pieces.

O'Ware- gives the ball away too often thru poor passing rather than lack of control. Too many shakey moments/IF more pace in the team could maybe be all right as a holding mid. Decent goal threat at set pieces.

McGinty- Prone to clangers too often, distribution often wonky. Considering his size no impact in attacking set pieces/Conversely his long ball can on occasions work to good effect and best of the central defenders taking the ball forward.

Hall- with the more experienced central defenders all struggling with their own demons the lad is unlikely to play alongside a guiding hand/Has been very good at U20 level so perhaps has the making of one for the future.

Gordon- Don't know if his injury has affected his progress but game passes him by too often/Definite goal threat from midfield and maybe an effective impact sub.

Slater- Often runs out of ideas on the ball. Perhaps sees too much of the ball in any case when he plays too deep/Reasonable goal threat from midfield.

Harkins- Overall fitness excludes him from playing anything like 90 mins and offers nothing defensively/Subject to enough pace from others ,played out wide or behind the striker he's always capable of providing a bit of inspiration

Palmer- still a bit too lightweight for his best position as a deep midfielder and not too comfortable played in other positions/Enthusiastic, superb work ethic.

de Vita- rarely plays for any length of time above the level of bang average and has no real pace/Versatile and has more than a semblance of ball control.

Cardle- Bit of a one trick pony these days as only really effective cutting in from the left to shoot on his right. Can wrong foot much of the team when caught on the ball/His one trick is still quite good. Still capable of playing 90 mins, albeit at his pace.

Zanatta- Maybe also a one trick pony, beating players down the left. Opposition just stick another player to help out their right back/If gets free can set up a goal or score. Can leave teammates with more space.

Mansell- struggles to score goals, too one footed for a striker/Can do the non striking roles expected of a big forward reasonably well. Capable of a few assists.

Jones- no indication he knows where the goals are. Limited in link up play/Takes up good positions in attack when not on the ball.
 

 

 

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Did that list fall out of McCall’s back pocket, LIB?  ;)

As for Bannigan, I think he’s done ok but might do better once the team confidence improves. Perhaps he’s trying too hard at times. The manager rates him highly and I’m sure I read somewhere he wants Bannigan on a longer contract.

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Clearly there are issues in defence , in midfield  we lack creativity and we badly need a decent striker .....if McCall can wheel and deal in these areas in January we could be ok 

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1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I'm sure we all realise that the squad isn't up to it. At best you could say it's imbalanced. Both talking  to other fans and reading others views it's clear to me that we all rate individual players differently. Below are my opinions of some of the players. Bad points/Good points. I've left out Bannigan, Penrice, Miller and the two goalies as, tho' they're far from perfect, I think they're consistently good enough at 2nd tier level. Also left out Cole & Kakay as they're only here till January. Left in Palmer as I imagine there's a probability of an extension should we require.  Plain forgot about Mitchell.

Williamson- won't/can't tackle, not sure about heading either/When forward can put in quick quality balls.

Robson- less feart than Williamson but light weight defending and less effective going forward/Gets himself in space to receive the ball.

Saunders- most senior and experienced defender but doesn't appear to organise back line effectively, prone to error too often/Reasonable threat at attacking set  pieces.

O'Ware- gives the ball away too often thru poor passing rather than lack of control. Too many shakey moments/IF more pace in the team could maybe be all right as a holding mid. Decent goal threat at set pieces.

McGinty- Prone to clangers too often, distribution often wonky. Considering his size no impact in attacking set pieces/Conversely his long ball can on occasions work to good effect and best of the central defenders taking the ball forward.

Hall- with the more experienced central defenders all struggling with their own demons the lad is unlikely to play alongside a guiding hand/Has been very good at U20 level so perhaps has the making of one for the future.

Gordon- Don't know if his injury has affected his progress but game passes him by too often/Definite goal threat from midfield and maybe an effective impact sub.

Slater- Often runs out of ideas on the ball. Perhaps sees too much of the ball in any case when he plays too deep/Reasonable goal threat from midfield.

Harkins- Overall fitness excludes him from playing anything like 90 mins and offers nothing defensively/Subject to enough pace from others ,played out wide or behind the striker he's always capable of providing a bit of inspiration

Palmer- still a bit too lightweight for his best position as a deep midfielder and not too comfortable played in other positions/Enthusiastic, superb work ethic.

de Vita- rarely plays for any length of time above the level of bang average and has no real pace/Versatile and has more than a semblance of ball control.

Cardle- Bit of a one trick pony these days as only really effective cutting in from the left to shoot on his right. Can wrong foot much of the team when caught on the ball/His one trick is still quite good. Still capable of playing 90 mins, albeit at his pace.

Zanatta- Maybe also a one trick pony, beating players down the left. Opposition just stick another player to help out their right back/If gets free can set up a goal or score. Can leave teammates with more space.

Mansell- struggles to score goals, too one footed for a striker/Can do the non striking roles expected of a big forward reasonably well. Capable of a few assists.

Jones- no indication he knows where the goals are. Limited in link up play/Takes up good positions in attack when not on the ball.
 

 

 

The whole defence actually gives me the heebie jeebies.

Williamson - Does relatively well going forward but not very good in defence, which creates a problem because that is his job. Poor in the air as well. Would like to see Kakay get a run.

Robson - Like him when he's on his game but a bit inconsistent. Prefer him to Penrice at left back.

Penrice - Too one footed and has not developed the way I had hoped. Gets away with a lot because he is "one of our own".

O'Ware -  Disappointing this season but possibly willing to cut him some slack, due to being out of action for so long. Pretty sure he is capable of a lot better and was a big favourite at Morton.

Saunders - I think he is the best defender at actually defending but agree that he is prone to error. Had a great game at Morton then fell apart from their first goal. He would possibly benefit from a long run in the team.

McGinty - In his defence, he has improved. However, he only had one way to go. For a guy at 6ft 4in, it is remarkable how he gets dominated so much in the air by much smaller players. This has improved though and I have noticed under McCall that he doesn't seem to be punting as many aimless balls up the park, which is a plus. Still not good enough though.

Hall - Saw him in the Glasgow Cup game v Queens Park and he looked very good. Worth a run of games in my opinion.

Kakay - Get him in.

Palmer - Excellent player and it's a shame we only have him on loan. 

Gordon - Apart from making late runs in to the box, not sure what he actually does in a game? Must touch the ball less than anyone else.

Bannigan - Still the best player we have.

Slater - Holds on to the ball for too long and doesn't create enough for me. Is quite skilful and protects the ball but things always slow down when the ball gets to him. Too many touches but looks capable of more.

Harkins - Obviously capable at this level on his day but remains to be seen whether he can get back to where he once was. I doubt it and injury has not helped.

Cole - Looks like a really good player. Stated on a thread a wee while ago that I can't remember ever seeing a player in a Thistle jersey pass the ball like this guy.

De Vita - Looks as if he's just OK at everything. Capable of a goal here or there and it is handy he can play in so many positions. Was kind of growing on me until last weekend.

Cardle - One thing you can't fault is his effort, another is his desire. Just looks a wee bit short of confidence at the moment and performances haven't been great, but a player capable of turning it on in this division on his day.

Zanatta - Really like him and could easily become a great player for us if he is willing to work hard and learn.  Great to watch him taking players on.

Jones - Again, one that has struggled with injuries and would benefit from a sustained period on the pitch. No Idea if good enough but certainly works hard.

Mansell - Awful.

 

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I think we're looking at patching up the squad in January to try and secure safety then trying to rebuild over the next 2 seasons to get a run at promotion. I think we have the right manager for that job.

In January I think we need a left sided central defender, another winger and at least one other striker. Next summer we could be looking at a total clearout.

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1 hour ago, Jag said:

The whole defence actually gives me the heebie jeebies.

Williamson - Does relatively well going forward but not very good in defence, which creates a problem because that is his job. Poor in the air as well. Would like to see Kakay get a run.

Robson - Like him when he's on his game but a bit inconsistent. Prefer him to Penrice at left back.

Penrice - Too one footed and has not developed the way I had hoped. Gets away with a lot because he is "one of our own".

O'Ware -  Disappointing this season but possibly willing to cut him some slack, due to being out of action for so long. Pretty sure he is capable of a lot better and was a big favourite at Morton.

Saunders - I think he is the best defender at actually defending but agree that he is prone to error. Had a great game at Morton then fell apart from their first goal. He would possibly benefit from a long run in the team.

McGinty - In his defence, he has improved. However, he only had one way to go. For a guy at 6ft 4in, it is remarkable how he gets dominated so much in the air by much smaller players. This has improved though and I have noticed under McCall that he doesn't seem to be punting as many aimless balls up the park, which is a plus. Still not good enough though.

Hall - Saw him in the Glasgow Cup game v Queens Park and he looked very good. Worth a run of games in my opinion.

Kakay - Get him in.

Palmer - Excellent player and it's a shame we only have him on loan. 

Gordon - Apart from making late runs in to the box, not sure what he actually does in a game? Must touch the ball less than anyone else.

Bannigan - Still the best player we have.

Slater - Holds on to the ball for too long and doesn't create enough for me. Is quite skilful and protects the ball but things always slow down when the ball gets to him. Too many touches but looks capable of more.

Harkins - Obviously capable at this level on his day but remains to be seen whether he can get back to where he once was. I doubt it and injury has not helped.

Cole - Looks like a really good player. Stated on a thread a wee while ago that I can't remember ever seeing a player in a Thistle jersey pass the ball like this guy.

De Vita - Looks as if he's just OK at everything. Capable of a goal here or there and it is handy he can play in so many positions. Was kind of growing on me until last weekend.

Cardle - One thing you can't fault is his effort, another is his desire. Just looks a wee bit short of confidence at the moment and performances haven't been great, but a player capable of turning it on in this division on his day.

Zanatta - Really like him and could easily become a great player for us if he is willing to work hard and learn.  Great to watch him taking players on.

Jones - Again, one that has struggled with injuries and would benefit from a sustained period on the pitch. No Idea if good enough but certainly works hard.

Mansell - Awful.

 

You say Penrice gets away with a lot because he is one of our own then surely that’s the case with banzo- by his standards a very poor season 

presently despite the last couple of games our best player IMO is Miller 

Edited by Third Lanark

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39 minutes ago, laukat said:

I think we're looking at patching up the squad in January to try and secure safety then trying to rebuild over the next 2 seasons to get a run at promotion. I think we have the right manager for that job.

In January I think we need a left sided central defender, another winger and at least one other striker. Next summer we could be looking at a total clearout.

can't fault what you say, but regarding the clearout ….  can we afford the cost?

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Just now, ARu-Strathbungo said:

can't fault what you say, but regarding the clearout ….  can we afford the cost?

Are 4 to 5 not only on loan till January 

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18 minutes ago, ARu-Strathbungo said:

can't fault what you say, but regarding the clearout ….  can we afford the cost?

Fox, Williamson, Gordon and Zanatta are the only ones who have a contract beyond May 2020 so there shouldn't be any costs to get players out.

I would suspect McCall will have less budget so he'll have to recruit cheaper players or have a smaller squad. He'll have his work cut out but identifying players and building a squad is probably his greatest strength.

23 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Are 4 to 5 not only on loan till January 

I think 5 (Hall, Cole, Kakay, Palmer and De Vita). There are not the worst in the squad but some of them will be sacrificied to get others in January.

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15 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

You say Penrice gets away with a lot because he is one of our own then surely that’s the case with banzo- by his standards a very poor season 

presently despite the last couple of games our best player IMO is Miller 

Bannigan was poor, by his standards, before Caldwell left. Since Ian McCall came in, his performances have improved dramatically and, although not back to his best yet, the signs are he may get there.

Bannigan has also proven himself in the past. We know the levels he can get to, so I think that is the main reason people were happy we persevered with him during his time out and difficult recovery. Penrice has shown promise but, in my opinion, he hasn't kicked on the way we all hoped. When he was 16 he was the next big thing - I don't think he is ever going to be anything more than an average full back at this level. Fans (including me) are desperate to see him do well but so far I'm disappointed.

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32 minutes ago, Jag said:

I don't think he is ever going to be anything more than an average full back at this level.

Not sure Thistle have ever replaced ATS and SoD as full backs. Two tremendous players, however with subsequent paths that have diverged enormously.

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17 hours ago, Jag said:

Gordon - Apart from making late runs in to the box, not sure what he actually does in a game? Must touch the ball less than anyone else.

 

 

Aye; his invisible man act has been enraging me every match I've seen this season, like playing with a man short.

Barely touches the ball or an opposing player all game.

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23 minutes ago, One t in Scotland said:

Not sure Thistle have ever replaced ATS and SoD as full backs. Two tremendous players, however with subsequent paths that have diverged enormously.

Agreed. Two players that were hugely instrumental in the way we played. A joy to watch.

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23 minutes ago, ARu-Strathbungo said:

ATS is without a club [according to wiki] or he seems to be 'between jobs' at Crewe Alexandra Is he one that IMC could bring back to Firhill?   He is only 28 so still young

I wasnt around last time McCall was our manager ( I was alive just didnt go the Firhill ) anyway, can others advise what would be a typical McCall player/ stlye of play?

I am thinking he prefers the ball played on the ground and worked through the midfield. Harkins 10 years ago type?

  

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35 minutes ago, Emsca said:

I wasnt around last time McCall was our manager ( I was alive just didnt go the Firhill ) anyway, can others advise what would be a typical McCall player/ stlye of play?

I am thinking he prefers the ball played on the ground and worked through the midfield. Harkins 10 years ago type?

ATS, O'Donnel and Harkins are actually pretty decent examples of the type of players McCall recruits. All of them were players that had been at 'big' clubs (Aberdeen, Celtic, Blackburn respectively) but then started to drop down the league. McCall has a habit of identifying which of these types of players could be picked up and given a new lease of life. 

In terms of playing style he tends to go 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 in defence that becomes 4-4-3 in attack.

The back 4 usually contains 2 centre halfs (preferable over 6ft) that do the basics well. At Airdrie and I think Falkirk his defence centred around Kevin James who was 6ft 7 and was only on the park to head the ball away or cause chaos at corners. One of the funnier moments was the Thistle support signing the circus music everytime he touched the ball as he was just such an oddity.

At Thistle he signed Harkins initially a central defender but also got back Archie. Also signed Maxwell who was in the Kevin James mould and guys like John Robertson who was the epitome of consistency

Fullbacks are usally very fit players that can defend but try to overlap. ATS, SO'D, Paton, Twaddle are examples. At Ayr he's had Smith and Harvie who look in the same mould.

Midfield is usually based around an experienced leader (Rowson at thistle, Geggan, adams, Kerr at Ayr) mixed with hard workers who can score (Chaplain, Cairney. Keown)

He's normally pretty good at identifying a striker that will score 20 goals a season (samuel, coyle, buchanan, doolan, shankland)

I don't remember him signing too many non-scots at any of his clubs (couple of Jamaicans at Falkirk are all that spring to mind) and I don't remember him ever doing well at signing a big target-man striker (maybe coyle at Airdrie but Coyle was better on the ground than in the air)

He usually brings a player or two from his previous clubs. Archie had been a Dundee United with him, he had Adams at Thistle and possibly Queens before taking him to Ayr likewise Kerr at Falkirk, Dundee United and Ayr. So I would expect we will sign a couple from Ayr. Not sure who (apart from Doolan) but perhaps someone like Geggan to beef up defence and Forrest to offer another wide option might be in his thoughts. Also wouldn't be surpised to see Erskine back.

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42 minutes ago, Emsca said:

I wasnt around last time McCall was our manager ( I was alive just didnt go the Firhill ) anyway, can others advise what would be a typical McCall player/ stlye of play?

I am thinking he prefers the ball played on the ground and worked through the midfield. Harkins 10 years ago type?  

Really good question and I don't have a clue as to an answer. Personally I wouldn't have been too keen on McCall returning if I didn't think he was a better manager now than when he left us. His strength is in his man management plus he's not afraid to change formation and personnel early in a game, when he sees things aren't going to plan.

As to your question I don't really think there is a typical "McCall" way of playing tho' I don't associate him with anything too brutal. I mind him saying back then that too much was made of formations and his players should be able to move comfortably from one set up to another during a game easily enough. 

If anything he signs players he likes and plays to their strengths. For example Paul Paton was a right back who rarely got forward while his left backs (Twaddle & McKinlay were more adventurous). Worth also remembering he had players like Archie, Rowson, Roberts and Donnelly from the off and, with the exception of Marco, throughout his tenure. Players like that kinda dictated the way you'd play. Harkins was signed as a centreback and even after his re-invention he often played wide rather than thru the centre.  If you regard Erskine as Harkins's replacement he too was mostly played wide. So I don't think he was particularly noted for playing the ball thru midfield in the conventional way. 

I'd say McCall's style is best described as pragmatic. 

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Fox- been alright made some great saves and could have done better with a few.

Sneddon- championship is probably his level decent keeper

Williamson- in the right system and with some confidence think he could be a pretty good player just doesn’t suit 4 at the back

Penrice- pretty consistent player could be a decent player if not playing in a car crash of a team

Robson- not been impressed can’t cross, can’t defend , can’t pass pretty poor player imo

O’ware- point and shout merchant but dose very little good 

Mcginty- average championship defender 

Saunders- steady for the most part would keep as a back up

Hall- not seen enough of
 

Bannigan- very poor season lots of mistakes and a lot of dilly dallying on the ball

Slater- Again can take too many touches but always looks forward for a pass can also take decent set plays, has a shot of him also

Palmer- really like him but of everything to his game don’t know why he doesn’t get played more

Gordon- good for a goal but his shitebaggery when defending dose my head in will probably get into double digits this season 

Harkins- don’t know why we signed him looks completely done

De vita- utterly pointless

Cardle- off form just now but I’m confident he’ll get back to his best

Zannatta- talented but frustrating at times still a good player at this level

Kakay- signed as a right back but is not a right winger? Not sure about him yet

Mansell- has his uses but could do with a loan spell in the lower leagues I think 

Austin- pretty good at fifa

Jones- not sure about him yet 

Miller- grumpy tries to play too many positions at a time but also has an impressive 8 goals so far

Cole- hope he’s not another crock as in the limited times I have seen him he looks a real good player

 

 

 

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