Fan Ownership Working Group

[dl1971]

8 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

And a handful of supporters decided we’d like to own the club and got Mr Weir to buy it for us

Beattie et al didn't have to sell. They took the money as is their right. If it doesnt work out ( I hope it does ) they will be wholly culpable because....they done their due diligence. If only 50 fans turned up....so what. That is more than enough to put together a working group.

[West of Scotland]

4 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

And a handful of supporters decided we’d like to own the club and got Mr Weir to buy it for us

You know what is past is prologue, right?

Whataboutery provides nothing except hundreds upon hundreds of forum pages of pointless point-scoring and petty one-upmanship.

We can't turn the clock back and have the previous board unsell their shares to Colin Weir.

The only question is where do we go from here.

Form a group which can be trusted to competently run the club which is what Colin Weir wants?

Or should we refuse and tell him we as a fanbase are incapable of doing so?

Colin Weir can do whatever he wants with what he owns. We know he doesn't want to own the club. I suppose he can sell off the land to Tesco, or just give everything away to someone. Maybe he'll appoint Jacqui Low as Steward-In-Perpetuity of his interests out of spite just because we're all so feckless.

[Fawlty Towers]

1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

Just over 50 people turned up last night including the working group. That hardly seems like the fans are onboard with this or even want it

"Thanks FT. I’m hearing around 130 there tonight, do you know if most of these had already signed up previously with TFE or were a lot newbies"

I am not going to have a go at the guys who post on P&B as we are all Thistle fans but if you want some insight in to the meeting/way forward I might suggest talking to the handsome young man who made a point and got applauded

[dl1971]

It strikes me that those who are vocal on this subject, yet resolutely wont get involved is the equivalent of not voting in an election, yet moaning about the government to anyone within earshot. Your opinion is somewhat tainted when you choose not to get involved in the democratic process.

[javeajag]

2 minutes ago, West of Scotland said:

Maybe he'll appoint Jacqui Low as Steward-In-Perpetuity of his interests out of spite just because we're all so feckless.

The devil in me thinks this would be hilarious .....

but seriously what other option would he have 

[Norgethistle]

1 minute ago, West of Scotland said:

 

Why should you have a plan? Because you're a fan, and I hope that means you want the club to survive and succeed.

You don't want this. Okay ... but please don't claim to speak for the majority of the fans.

You don't want this so make a suggestion for an alternative that we, as fans, can get behind.

Some of us are willing to listen. Some of us want to consider every option.

Some of us apparently just want to react in the negative to everything and do nothing, contribute nothing.

Do you have an idea of what should happen next?

In my opinion being fan owned is the only option - you know why? Because the majority of the shares and the owner of the ground, Colin Weir, doesn't want to own the club.

As I have already written, if you don't like the way the working group is being set up or who is involved, then join now and make your voice heard in a meaningful manner.

Not just on internet forums.

The working group is asking for people to join RIGHT NOW.

You don't like Paul Goodwin and feel he has nothing of substance to offer, then join and convince the other people involved to remove him.

Get involved.

 

Of course the survival of the club is paramount to me. 
For the club to succeed it needs to move forward in a vision that is shared together with the majority of the fans. (Currently this vision isn’t shared with the majority).

I fully understand Colin Weir doesn’t want to own the club, but who decided that we the fans did? TFE them and then only who persuaded Colin to buy it for the fans.  The same fans that haven’t backed this in great numbers since day 1.

As for getting involved, yes it’s something I have been considering but 2 major hurdles for me is distance (Costs me £800 and 5hrs each way from Stavanger, and £3000 and 16hrs from Saudi), and having to seek written approval from my employer to be involved in effectively a 2nd business and all the background checks for conflict of interest etc etc, as it’s not a charitable organization then this is a paperwork nightmare for myself with no guarantee it would be accepted or that any acceptance wouldn’t have strict stipulations and limitations involved.

 

What I and may others would like to see is the goal and the plan to get there. For example:

Immediate plan- Establish 500 signed up. Determine voting rights (1 per person or % of take up). Determine scope for board and duration plus election / de-selection criteria. Determine liability & accountability for members / seconded board members and how to protect them

Short to mid term goal (3-5 yrs) - Established top league team operating at breakeven

Plan to get there - 1000 supporters committing to £250k a year, grow support by 5% minimum per year.

Mid to Long Term plan - Challenging for Top6 yearly with Europe place (league or Cup) whilst operating at a profit that grows by 10% year on year

Plan to get there- Grow the contributers by 10% per year aiming to reach 90% of adult fan base, whilst increasing their individual contributions by 5% year on year. Whilst growing support by 10% year on year.

 

[Norgethistle]

6 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

"Thanks FT. I’m hearing around 130 there tonight, do you know if most of these had already signed up previously with TFE or were a lot newbies"

I am not going to have a go at the guys who post on P&B as we are all Thistle fans but if you want some insight in to the meeting/way forward I might suggest talking to the handsome young man who made a point and got applauded

This wasn’t on P&B I’ve had this from 2 friends who were there and was posted on other social media

[West of Scotland]

I'm sorry I didn't sit and take a headcount last night. I didn't realise it was going to be crucial to the debate.

[javeajag]

9 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

fully understand Colin Weir doesn’t want to own the club, but who decided that we the fans did? TFE them and then only who persuaded Colin to buy it for the fans.  The same fans that haven’t backed this in great numbers since day 1.

Ok.....the club was for sale .....apart from the consortium I am not aware there was any other interest in buying the club that in itself tells you something 

it was clear the fans didn’t want a consortium with no face, plan or track record 

Colin weir has decided he would like to give the club to the fans 

if you don’t want it who should he give it to ? 

[jagfox]

So I’ve read about examples of other fan led clubs. Was there any word on what model we will be employing? As stated a well run club with an effective BoD keeping finances on an even keel with a trust raising the extra money that can make a difference to the club, ground and playing staff? 

Should we go back to non-elected directors fronting a fee to be on the board which could be repaid in shares if things go well fiscally? 

I’m happy to pledge what I can afford but I’ll wait until I see what is on the table. 

[javeajag]

interesting comment from Ayr Utd....
 

We're obviously disappointed to be losing Doc but the fact is Thistle have a bit of money to play with and are going to be using it.

[West of Scotland]

17 minutes ago, jagfox said:

So I’ve read about examples of other fan led clubs. Was there any word on what model we will be employing? As stated a well run club with an effective BoD keeping finances on an even keel with a trust raising the extra money that can make a difference to the club, ground and playing staff? 

Should we go back to non-elected directors fronting a fee to be on the board which could be repaid in shares if things go well fiscally? 

I’m happy to pledge what I can afford but I’ll wait until I see what is on the table. 

The model hasn't been decided yet. That's what the working group is for.

[javeajag]

20 minutes ago, jagfox said:

So I’ve read about examples of other fan led clubs. Was there any word on what model we will be employing? As stated a well run club with an effective BoD keeping finances on an even keel with a trust raising the extra money that can make a difference to the club, ground and playing staff? 

Should we go back to non-elected directors fronting a fee to be on the board which could be repaid in shares if things go well fiscally? 

I’m happy to pledge what I can afford but I’ll wait until I see what is on the table. 

They are looking at the Motherwell ownership structure as a potential model along with any other ideas ....so chip in 

[Norgethistle]

I’ve just watched the 1st part of last nights meeting on FB. I’ll let it sink in first and watch the remainder prior to giving feedback but for one comment “Usain Bolt & Christian Ronaldo were ambassadors for Stirling Albion fan takeover!!!”  

[javeajag]

2 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

I’ve just watched the 1st part of last nights meeting on FB. I’ll let it sink in first and watch the remainder prior to giving feedback but for one comment “Usain Bolt & Christian Ronaldo were ambassadors for Stirling Albion fan takeover!!!”  

Tbh....I think we have moved beyond pulling fan ownership apart for no real constructive reason ....I’m not sure what your motivation is here

[Norgethistle]

1 minute ago, javeajag said:

Tbh....I think we have moved beyond pulling fan ownership apart for no real constructive reason ....I’m not sure what your motivation is here

My motivation is questioning something that is being thrust upon us with no clear plan how to get to an as yet to be determined end goal within 12 weeks.

Some of the statements made in the first part of the video are frankly not accurate at all, and comparing us with German or Argentinian teams carry’s no weight at all. As for the Swedish rule the football team is actually part of a bigger sports club that is 50% owned by members but the football club whilst reporting into and being accountable to them is run heavily with investors. Zlatan ibrahimovic has just purchased Hammer and 50% of its controlling company AEG 

[Norgethistle]

15 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Tbh....I think we have moved beyond pulling fan ownership apart for no real constructive reason ....I’m not sure what your motivation is here

Very simple question (or should be) to try and convince those not already sold on the idea.

Present me (and others) the what, why and how on this project.

What are we aiming for?

Why are we doing this?

How do we plan to get there?

[javeajag]

34 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

My motivation is questioning something that is being thrust upon us with no clear plan how to get to an as yet to be determined end goal within 12 weeks.

Some of the statements made in the first part of the video are frankly not accurate at all, and comparing us with German or Argentinian teams carry’s no weight at all. As for the Swedish rule the football team is actually part of a bigger sports club that is 50% owned by members but the football club whilst reporting into and being accountable to them is run heavily with investors. Zlatan ibrahimovic has just purchased Hammer and 50% of its controlling company AEG 

Aren’t the working groups etc designed to develop the model , plan etc ?

Let’s just focus on That and we might get something workable 

[javeajag]

29 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Very simple question (or should be) to try and convince those not already sold on the idea.

Present me (and others) the what, why and how on this project.

What are we aiming for?

Why are we doing this?

How do we plan to get there?

Let’s do it the other way round.....

What is the alternative ?

[jagfox]

1 hour ago, javeajag said:

They are looking at the Motherwell ownership structure as a potential model along with any other ideas ....so chip in 

We’re now at the same if not a more advanced stage of fan ownership. The club is ours whether everyone likes it or not. It really is a fantastic opportunity. As I said I’d like things to be kept simple. Board to run a tight ship financially. Trust to focus on raising as many pledges as possible to augment the club’s needs whether in or off the park. 

Priorities are getting a permanent football board focussed on the club and it’s day to day runnings. The Trust to attract Jags fans and supporters world wide.

The club if run sensibly will still have a top four budget. The trust can make the difference. Keep things simple and transparent once the fundamentals are agreed upon.

i appreciate there’s still a lot of work to be done but I can appreciate some haven’t been convinced yet but essentially this os the road we’re going down whoever or not likes it. 

The great thing thing is that any pledges made go direct to the club not into a pot with the view to buy shares like Motherwell, until recently  or St Mirren. 

 

[javeajag]

Correct 

[Norgethistle]

28 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Let’s do it the other way round.....

What is the alternative ?

So as you’ve just stated we have had this thrust upon us with no alternative but to take it. 
Effectively Hobson’s choice but the greater fan base will be left to (potentially) pick up the pieces caused by a few folks egos who fancied running a football club (One of who has tried this several times). 

[West of Scotland]

Circles, circles, running around in circles, circles

[javeajag]

7 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

So as you’ve just stated we have had this thrust upon us with no alternative but to take it. 
Effectively Hobson’s choice but the greater fan base will be left to (potentially) pick up the pieces caused by a few folks egos who fancied running a football club (One of who has tried this several times). 

PTFC even the fans don’t want it ....

[Norgethistle]

12 minutes ago, javeajag said:

PTFC even the fans don’t want it ....

Again as asked previously explain the What? Why? and How? of this project