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Springburnjag

Fan Ownership Working Group

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Just now, Norgethistle said:

Thanks FT. I’m hearing around 130 there tonight, do you know if most of these had already signed up previously with TFE or were a lot newbies

To be honest I don't know, apart from people on here who have volunteered the info, who had pledged with TfE. I pledged when it was launched and fully intend to keep to that when the new model is in place. One of the people in the crowd asked at the end, to gauge opinion, who based on what they had heard would pledge and a majority indicated they would (did not have time to count raised hands) but they of course may have already decided to do so.

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4 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Why was the lad, Jackson there? I realise he's been in and about much of the club administration hi-jinks. But was he there in an official capacity and/or advisory?

He said a few words, mainly about how the benefactor ownership model is broken in football and how he believes in fan ownership. But other than that, I don’t really know why he was there.

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On 16 December 2019 at 9:19 PM, erty13 said:

All this speculation is very boaring and tedious.  You have found them guilty before any crime has been committed. 

We all have concerns about the way forward, however most of would rather wait and see what is delivered. There are many fans who know there way round a balance sheet and a business plan better than any of the directors and chief executives we have had in the last 10 years.

We just need to make sure that the correct people are appointed based on their skillset.

There is No Speculation ref the £1MN its from Budgets stated at the last AGM 

And pray tell - who is appointing the Fans with the "correct" Skillsets ? 

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1 hour ago, Big Col said:

So what did we learn from tonight?

The proposed (or preferred) model has not been put together yet.

When asked what happens if 3BC knock back the proposal, the answer was “that shouldn’t happen”. When asked again, the same answer was given.

When asked about financials and budgets etc, Mr Goodwin admitted he did not know the figures even though he was at the AGM.

A large number of attendees indicated that they would be pledgers

Likely that only those who pledge will be actual owners of the club 

The Motherwell model was mentioned many times by Mr Goodwin as being really good. Motherwell of course being the club today that announced an annual loss of over £400K and when challenged on this, Mr Goodwin had no answer other than we’ve to ask the Motherwell vice chairman who will be attending the next meeting

Volunteers are being sought to join the various working groups (as per website announcement today)

Less than 90 days to get a fully costed and legally proper proposal together to present to 3BC. If an extension is needed, then 3BC will continue to run the club

On the whole, no detailed info and I don’t think I’m any further forward. My personal opinion remains extremely sceptical.

Any questions about tonight, please ask and I’ll try my best to answer.

Did Mr Goodwin give any details as to how a Fan Owned Club would address the £750K Budget shortfall stated at the last AGM 

I find it astounding that the Man who has pushed for Fan Ownership does Not Know Budgets & Financials - this frankly is very worrying ?

As for "it shouldn't happen" how is that an Answer ? 

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13 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Why was the lad, Jackson there? I realise he's been in and about much of the club administration hi-jinks. But was he there in an official capacity and/or advisory?

The 7 clubs he’s helped. 1 has disappeared (Clydebank) and of the other 6, 5 of them have went for the fan based model (Motherwell, Dundee, Portsmouth, Hearts, Dunfermline) with 2 leaving that model. He’s an advocate for fan based ownership as he believes individuals lose sense of business reality when running a football club (possibly true)

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4 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

There is No Speculation ref the £1MN its from Budgets stated at the last AGM 

And pray tell - who is appointing the Fans with the "correct" Skillsets ? 

So your whole argument is that the £1m will continue and no one will have the sense to run the club to balance the books. Your view is complete speculation, as you assume that changes will not be made.

Unlike you i am not going to speculate who will appoint the fans with the correct skillsets.

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2 minutes ago, erty13 said:

So your whole argument is that the £1m will continue and no one will have the sense to run the club to balance the books. Your view is complete speculation, as you assume that changes will not be made.

Unlike you i am not going to speculate who will appoint the fans with the correct skillsets.

Thats fine 100% agree - balance the Books - but £1MN is circa 40% of there Total Budget - so not sure how that works 

Thats Interesting so if its Fan Owned surely that should be the Fans ? 

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9 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Thats fine 100% agree - balance the Books - but £1MN is circa 40% of there Total Budget - so not sure how that works 

Thats Interesting so if its Fan Owned surely that should be the Fans ? 

Jim delighted we agreed on something.

It is very easy to sit on the sideline and lob in grenades,  a lot harder to be constructive.  Can you outline how you would run the club with the proposed ownership structure.

 

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One thing which was said and reiterated a couple of times by speakers is that we fans need to be realistic about where our club is and is going. There is no fairy godmother to pour loads of money to take us soaring to the champions league the season after next. What we need to aspire to is a sustainable football club which builds success on and off the park at a rate which will not bust us. As it was put - £ in £ out.

Additionally, there was a comment made about communication being done through on-line channels and how this could exclude a pr0portion of the older fans. I agree that there needs to be more traditional communication but looking around the room the people who it seemed to me to be missing were those in their 30s to 40s so maybe a more detailed look at this is called for.

Edited by scotty
added idea

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7 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Did he mention if more had expressed an interest than the initial 268? I do have issues with Paul’s figures as he’s on record stating 71000 (Seventy one thousand, I’ve not mistyped) had signed up with Stirling

To be fair, if we can’t get 1000 pledges, it probably suggests that the fans don’t want fan ownership.

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8 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

They can as long as they have assets/ cash above that value. A one of year loss isn’t devastating if the trend continues it could be, I think the point being muted was this was in 1st real year of fan ownership. They also brought in £700k in transfers (compared with £1.4m year before) but gate receipts have halved

Yes but fan ownership and the loss are connected how ? 

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8 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Did Mr Goodwin give any details as to how a Fan Owned Club would address the £750K Budget shortfall stated at the last AGM 

I find it astounding that the Man who has pushed for Fan Ownership does Not Know Budgets & Financials - this frankly is very worrying ?

As for "it shouldn't happen" how is that an Answer ? 

How do you know your shortfall has not already been addressed ? It is an issue for the current board .....the fact that we are paying Montrose a fee for a player might give you a clue ....

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7 hours ago, erty13 said:

Jim delighted we agreed on something.

It is very easy to sit on the sideline and lob in grenades,  a lot harder to be constructive.  Can you outline how you would run the club with the proposed ownership structure.

 

This 

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9 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Did Mr Goodwin give any details as to how a Fan Owned Club would address the £750K Budget shortfall stated at the last AGM 

I find it astounding that the Man who has pushed for Fan Ownership does Not Know Budgets & Financials - this frankly is very worrying ?

As for "it shouldn't happen" how is that an Answer ? 

It's a shame you were unable to go last night to ask these questions. No matter, you can now engage with them directly. See here.

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12 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

I do have to laugh ....

what exactly does Motherwell making a loss In one year  have to do with us ? Are they now giving up on fan ownership ?  
 

the most significant point from last night for me was the days of business benefactors running clubs has gone 
 

I think it’s time for those who supported the consortium like you jj etc to now come up with an alternative to what’s being proposed as I for one don’t think this idea failing will lead to anything good 

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I would love to know what those who have nothing to offer but constant negativity propose what happens next.

Tell Colin Weir's lawyers that the fans refuse to take ownership of the club?

If there was a budget shortfall in the past then that was down to financial mismanagement, by the previous board or the one before it, or the one before that.

It doesn't really matter because we're starting with a clean slate now - that is unless Colin Weir has decided not to pay any outstanding bills and will gift the fans a club saddled with debt.

I don't know the man but if anyone thinks that is what's going to happen then let us all know.

From the moment the club becomes fan owned then it will break even. It simply has to because, as was mentioned last night, banks don't usually extend credit to community owned football clubs. Unless there's other multi-millionaires out there who fancy giving their money away we have to rely on the money the football club can generate.

I think some people bumping their gums about where they think the club "should be" will have to have a reality check. We get less than two thousand fans through the gate at home games now, and we're no longer in a league where there are large away supports visiting Firhill. We'll have to determine what that means for a club - what our goals are, what level of player we can afford - that has to live within its means.

We have to decide what the money - whatever the amount is - generated by pledges goes towards. Give it to the manager to bring in players? Spend it on youth teams in the hope of bringing some of them up to the first team and sell them for a profit? Upgrade the stadium experience to try and encourage more people to pay at the gate? We'll have to figure it out.

We'll have to figure out how to get young fans interested for a start, because almost everyone in attendance last night looked to be in their forties or older.

If you're not happy with what you heard last night and have ideas on how to fix what you perceive to be wrong with the proposed model, then get involved.

If you think Paul Goodwin is an idiot and a charlatan then don't just sit behind a computer screen complaining or mumble darkly under your breath, crossed-armed. Get involved.

If you feel you have experience or knowledge that will help, then get involved.

If I had experience of running something other than a bath I would volunteer but I don't feel there's anything I can contribute other than a pledge.

Sure, it's a tight timescale but as it was mentioned last night the deadline for handing over the shares was set by Three Black Cats because they didn't want to give the impression that they were taking over and remaining in control of the club any longer than was absolutely necessary.

And my god, the absolute outrage that would occur here if there was the suggestion that TBC and Jacqui Low would be in charge any longer than March.

There seemed to be some who didn't think there were any fans that could run Partick Thistle.

"Amateurs running a professional club."

It's pretty depressing to live in a country where people think we can't govern ourselves and can't run our own businesses.

For those who don't think anyone involved with the working group are suitable but don't want to get involved themselves, and those who don't want TBC (and the big bad scary Jacqui Low) to continue to hold the shares then state what you think should happen. We're all ears.

It's our club and we have to figure it out now. You can't just sit and shake your head any more.

Edited by West of Scotland
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24 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Lots of complaints, no constructive comments.

If this is going to be a disaster then what is the alternative?

Edited by West of Scotland

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6 minutes ago, West of Scotland said:

I would love to know what those who have nothing to offer but constant negativity propose what happens next.

Tell Colin Weir's lawyers that the fans refuse to take ownership of the club?

If there was a budget shortfall in the past then that was down to financial mismanagement, by the previous board or the one before it, or the before that.

It doesn't really matter because we're starting with a clean slate now - that is unless Colin Weir has decided not to pay any outstanding bills and will gift the fans a club saddled with debt.

I don't know the man but if anyone thinks that is what's going to happen then let us all know.

From the moment the club becomes fan owned then it will break even. It simply has to because, as was mentioned last night, banks don't usually extend credit to community owned football clubs. Unless there's other multi-millionaires out there who fancy giving their money away we have to rely on the money the football club can generate.

I think some people bumping their gums about where they think the club "should be" will have to have a reality check. We get less than two thousand fans through the gate at home games now, and we're no longer in a league where there are large away supports visiting Firhill. We'll have to determine what that means for a club - what our goals are, what level of player we can afford - that has to live within its means.

We have to decide what the money - whatever the amount is - generated by pledges goes towards. Give it to the manager to bring in players? Spend it on youth teams in the hope of bringing some of them up to the first team and sell them for a profit? Upgrade the stadium experience to try and encourage more people to pay at the gate? We'll have to figure it out.

We'll have to figure out how to get young fans interested for a start, because almost everyone in attendance last night looked to be in their forties or older.

If you're not happy with what you heard last night and have ideas on how to fix what you perceive to be wrong with the proposed model, then get involved.

If you think Paul Goodwin is an idiot and a charlatan then don't just sit behind a computer screen complaining or mumble darkly under your breath, crossed-armed. Get involved.

If you feel you have experience or knowledge that will help, then get involved.

If I had experience of running something other than a bath I would volunteer but I don't feel there's anything I can contribute other than a pledge.

Sure, it's a tight timescale but as it was mentioned last night the deadline for handing over the shares was set by Three Black Cats because they didn't want to give the impression that they were taking over and remaining in control of the club any longer than was absolutely necessary.

And my god, the absolute outrage that would occur here if there was the suggestion that TBC and Jacqui Low would be in charge any longer than March.

There seemed to be some who didn't think there were any fans that could run the Partick Thistle.

"Amateurs running a professional club."

It's pretty depressing to live in a country where people think we can't govern ourselves and can't run our own businesses.

For those who don't think anyone involved with the working group are suitable but don't want to get involved themselves, and those who don't want TBC (and the big bad scary Jacqui Low) to continue to hold the shares then state what you think should happen. We're all ears.

It's our club and we have to figure it out now. You can't just sit and shake your head any more.

This is it 

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9 minutes ago, West of Scotland said:

I would love to know what those who have nothing to offer but constant negativity propose what happens next.

Tell Colin Weir's lawyers that the fans refuse to take ownership of the club?

If there was a budget shortfall in the past then that was down to financial mismanagement, by the previous board or the one before it, or the before that.

It doesn't really matter because we're starting with a clean slate now - that is unless Colin Weir has decided not to pay any outstanding bills and will gift the fans a club saddled with debt.

I don't know the man but if anyone thinks that is what's going to happen then let us all know.

From the moment the club becomes fan owned then it will break even. It simply has to because, as was mentioned last night, banks don't usually extend credit to community owned football clubs. Unless there's other multi-millionaires out there who fancy giving their money away we have to rely on the money the football club can generate.

I think some people bumping their gums about where they think the club "should be" will have to have a reality check. We get less than two thousand fans through the gate at home games now, and we're no longer in a league where there are large away supports visiting Firhill. We'll have to determine what that means for a club - what our goals are, what level of player we can afford - that has to live within its means.

We have to decide what the money - whatever the amount is - generated by pledges goes towards. Give it to the manager to bring in players? Spend it on youth teams in the hope of bringing some of them up to the first team and sell them for a profit? Upgrade the stadium experience to try and encourage more people to pay at the gate? We'll have to figure it out.

We'll have to figure out how to get young fans interested for a start, because almost everyone in attendance last night looked to be in their forties or older.

If you're not happy with what you heard last night and have ideas on how to fix what you perceive to be wrong with the proposed model, then get involved.

If you think Paul Goodwin is an idiot and a charlatan then don't just sit behind a computer screen complaining or mumble darkly under your breath, crossed-armed. Get involved.

If you feel you have experience or knowledge that will help, then get involved.

If I had experience of running something other than a bath I would volunteer but I don't feel there's anything I can contribute other than a pledge.

Sure, it's a tight timescale but as it was mentioned last night the deadline for handing over the shares was set by Three Black Cats because they didn't want to give the impression that they were taking over and remaining in control of the club any longer than was absolutely necessary.

And my god, the absolute outrage that would occur here if there was the suggestion that TBC and Jacqui Low would be in charge any longer than March.

There seemed to be some who didn't think there were any fans that could run the Partick Thistle.

"Amateurs running a professional club."

It's pretty depressing to live in a country where people think we can't govern ourselves and can't run our own businesses.

For those who don't think anyone involved with the working group are suitable but don't want to get involved themselves, and those who don't want TBC (and the big bad scary Jacqui Low) to continue to hold the shares then state what you think should happen. We're all ears.

It's our club and we have to figure it out now. You can't just sit and shake your head any more.

Just over 50 people turned up last night including the working group. That hardly seems like the fans are onboard with this or even want it

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1 minute ago, Norgethistle said:

Just over 50 people turned up last night including the working group. That hardly seems like the fans are onboard with this or even want it

You win no fan ownership....

phew that’s a relief ......What’s YOUR plan then 

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