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Fan Ownership Working Group

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10 hours ago, Fawlty Towers said:

Just posted:

As previously announced, both Thistle for Ever and the PTFC Trust have been invited to be part of a Working Group to make recommendations to both the boards of Partick Thistle Football Club and Three Black Cats setting out how the club can move forward as a community-owned club.

Acceptance of these recommendations would trigger the transfer of shares from Three Black Cats to the appropriate vehicle considered most appropriate for this purpose.
A key part of this process will include engagement with Thistle fans on as wide a basis as possible so that the proposals can clearly be seen to have their approval.

The members of the core Working Group are:

Craig Dunn
Paul Goodwin
Pauline Graham
Allan Heron
Tom Hosie
Russel McPhate
Keith Rarity
Gordon Shaw
Elaine Sibbald
Ian Wright

This group is made up of fans associated with Thistle for Ever, PTFC Trust and others who have indicated an early interest in getting involved in this process. Please note that there are no Directors of the club included on the Working Group to avoid any conflict of interest as they will have a role in approving the recommendations arising.

The initial meeting of the Working Group will take place this week where we will firm up on future activities (which will include opportunities for other fans to get involved). However, we do anticipate that we will be issuing a questionnaire for fans to complete, with the intention of having a public meeting in January which will both share the results from this along with a wider discussion of what community ownership will mean.

A further announcement will be made as soon as possible after the meeting.

Thank you to everyone who helped so far.

Allan Heron
on behalf of the Working Group

#ThistleforEver

Apart from Paul Goodwin (TFE Director and Stirling Albion fan ownership setup), Pauline Graham (ex-PTFC Trust), Tom Hosie (Admin here and Ex program editor), and Alan Heron (ex Jags Trust) I don’t know the others, can someone provide a background on the others

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1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

Apart from Paul Goodwin (TFE Director and Stirling Albion fan ownership setup), Pauline Graham (ex-PTFC Trust), Tom Hosie (Admin here and Ex program editor), and Alan Heron (ex Jags Trust) I don’t know the others, can someone provide a background on the others

Russell McPhate aka dunfermlinejag......lawyer.....which makes some sense 

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1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

Apart from Paul Goodwin (TFE Director and Stirling Albion fan ownership setup), Pauline Graham (ex-PTFC Trust), Tom Hosie (Admin here and Ex program editor), and Alan Heron (ex Jags Trust) I don’t know the others, can someone provide a background on the others

Keith rarity....season ticket holder.....property valuations manager at pacitti jones 

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1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

Apart from Paul Goodwin (TFE Director and Stirling Albion fan ownership setup), Pauline Graham (ex-PTFC Trust), Tom Hosie (Admin here and Ex program editor), and Alan Heron (ex Jags Trust) I don’t know the others, can someone provide a background on the others

I’ll assume this is Craig Dunn
 

https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/training-ground-project-an-update/

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I have been asked to  join the working group  because I am a solicitor, as Javeajag suggested. This isn't my principal field of expertise but I can find my way around a legal document so I hope I will be of some use in making sure that whatever the final structure chosen it is robust and fit for purpose.

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Because of all the "noise" on the forum these days, I have not kept myself up to speed with ownership issues.  But in relation to the Working Group, I would like to raise three points.

First, I hope that the Group find a way to let all fans express their views formally to the Group before surveying the fans, and to make that opinion public. That might be useful in framing the questionnare, quite apart from the ideas raised.

Second, while pledges of cash from fans are fine, It would be better I think, to allow fans to purchase shares.  That would obviously be truer to the sentiment behind the Weir strategy.  It might also keep the final shareholding groups on their toes.

Third, I'm unsure whether anyone from the Jags Trust is on the Group.  As I and others have  already pointed out, a single fans trust must be a prime objective, to provide a unified fans' voice, and to allow a reform of the Trusts' , frankly shambolic, administration.

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19 hours ago, Fawlty Towers said:

The whole situation with the Jags Trust has been, in my opinion, very strange over recent years.

The years play tricks on the memory but can you remind me Jim if the decision not to allow the Jags Trust rep a place on the Club Board was when you were on the Board or was it after you had left it?

No I was there - it was based on the fact that No one had put there name forward to run for the place of the Board Trust Rep 

What then transpired was that the JT Committee wanted to nominate a Board Rep - it was felt ( and I agreed ) that if No one could be bothered to put there name on a ballot Paper then the JT didnt have the support to have a Rep on the Board  

 

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1 hour ago, eljaggo said:

Because of all the "noise" on the forum these days, I have not kept myself up to speed with ownership issues.  But in relation to the Working Group, I would like to raise three points.

First, I hope that the Group find a way to let all fans express their views formally to the Group before surveying the fans, and to make that opinion public. That might be useful in framing the questionnare, quite apart from the ideas raised.

Second, while pledges of cash from fans are fine, It would be better I think, to allow fans to purchase shares.  That would obviously be truer to the sentiment behind the Weir strategy.  It might also keep the final shareholding groups on their toes.

Third, I'm unsure whether anyone from the Jags Trust is on the Group.  As I and others have  already pointed out, a single fans trust must be a prime objective, to provide a unified fans' voice, and to allow a reform of the Trusts' , frankly shambolic, administration.

I agree the idea of buying shares is much more appealing to the typical fan, but is it not true the idea of monthly pledges is to help with running costs at the club? That being so, perhaps they need to consider shares and pledges?  Regarding those pledges, I worry that these could evaporate due to the car crash way the team have been playing for the last two years. It is one thing to pledge £10.00 or £20.00 or £50.00 a month if you are watching a football team who cares about playing for that jersey, quite another if they do not.

The single focal point for a fans group must be a priority I would think.    I have had little to do with the Jags Trust [other than being a member from the 2011 / 2012 season when they gave out membership cards and for a few years after that time occasionally asked for a membership payment] Other than that, they are the named organisation who have a column in the 'Thistle News' part of our match day programmes. I think the supporters association must be more approachable and have a higher profile than of late …. and should have an online membership renewal page that actually works.

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12 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Apart from Paul Goodwin (TFE Director and Stirling Albion fan ownership setup), Pauline Graham (ex-PTFC Trust), Tom Hosie (Admin here and Ex program editor), and Alan Heron (ex Jags Trust) I don’t know the others, can someone provide a background on the others

If it is the Ian Wright I am thinking of he was in charge of Garthland Print who used to provide the programmes and 50/50 tickets for the club. A shareholder, long time fan and good guy to deal with (from my personal experience).

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Transcript of Q and A.

Please don't quote this post. Just copy and paste the bits relevant to your posts. Thanks.

Friday 6th December, 2019 at 12:00pm

Following Three Back Cats’ acquisition of a majority shareholding of Partick Thistle – and land at Firhill – two weeks ago, the club is pleased to provide supporters with this detailed Q&A update which includes the next steps in the transition to fan ownership by 30 March, 2020.

What has been happening since the announcement was made?

A great deal, on a number of fronts. Work on transferring back to the Club continues. The interim Board has met the manager to talk about supporting him in the transfer window. The details of the Working Group are being worked on and are the key focus – that’s got to be right to ensure the transfer of shares goes ahead at the end of March 2020.

Who owns Partick Thistle Football Club now?

Three Black Cats Ltd (3BC) bought the 55% of shares in Thistle that were held by a majority shareholding group. It also bought the assets of Firhill Developments, which are the south terrace (the bing) and the main stand. Colin Weir personally owns a further 10% of shares, the PTFC Trust owns 19.46%, the Jags Trust owns 7% and small shareholders own the remaining 8+%.

Who or what is Three Black Cats Ltd (3BC)?

It’s the development company owned by Jags fan and Club Patron Colin Weir. It purchased the 55% majority shareholding in Partick Thistle and the land owned by Firhill Developments Ltd.

How’s the Club operating between now and March?

The interim Board is running the Club on a day to day basis, so it is very much business as usual. In parallel, the Working Group has been set up to start working with fans to identify the right model for fan ownership.

These are two distinct groups – the interim Board will have to approve the transfer of shares to fans, so it won’t participate in the Working Group.

Who’s on the interim Board and who appointed them?

Individuals with a range of business backgrounds, the majority being longstanding Jags fans. They were appointed by the majority shareholder 3BC. The names and profiles of the interim Board can be viewed here: https://ptfc.co.uk/club/whos-who/board/

Why is there no Chairman on the interim Board?

It was felt by 3BC that, after the upheaval of recent months, the next Chairman of the Club should not be interim but a permanent Chairman appointed come March. There’s enough experience on the interim Board to organise chairing of meetings on rotation amongst the interim Directors.

What’s Jacqui Low’s role?

Jacqui Low is one of two Directors of 3BC, the company that owns a majority shareholding in PTFC, along with Colin Weir. Jacqui is Colin’s nominated representative to liaise with the Club, to protect 3BC’s interests in Thistle until March 2020 and to ensure that the shares are handed over to fans within the stated timescale. She is not on the interim Board.

What’s the Working Group?

3BC invited the single biggest shareholder, the PTFC Trust, and campaign group Thistle for Ever (TfE) to begin the process of setting up a Working Group to identify the best model for fan ownership at Thistle. However, the Working Group will operate independently of any one fan group and aims to provide a forum to bring fans, from all parts of the Club, together. It will also engage with fans directly about the project.

Why isn’t it already talking to fans? Why isn’t it better organised?

Until the deal was completed, there couldn’t be any sharing of information. It was only once the deal was done that the Working Group could begin to take shape. So it is very early days but things are beginning to happen quite quickly behind the scenes and it will be ready to launch next week. It will have its own communications channels and those need to be set up properly, even if it is only interim.

Who’s on the Working Group? Who’s running the Working Group?

No one group is in charge of the Working Group. Labels will be left at the door and the best way to describe it is to say that the Working Group will be like Switzerland – neutral. It will be a place for fans to share ideas with challenge but without criticism. Initial members have been identified but there will further people added. It is important that the membership reflects different interests and groupings from around the Club, so there will be a call going out to the whole fanbase asking for people to step forward to help with the work of the Working Group.

What happens with the Working Group from next week?

There is an outline scoping document that lays out the broad-brush approach being taken to enable everything to be done within the timescales.  That includes a strategy for communicating with fans, including events over the next few months.

The Well Society was cited as a best in practice case study in fan ownership? Why is that the case and what can we learn from them?

The Well Society has achieved so much in three years using a simple but effective structure, with clearly defined roles and responsibilities for all involved. Having raised almost £800,000 for their club over that period, it shows the possibilities of fan ownership at its best so there’s a lot we can learn from Motherwell, good and bad. But there will also be an opportunity to hear about projects that have gone wrong so that we can avoid a similar situation.

When will we know more from the Working Group?

The Working Group will go public in the course of next week.  It has four months to come up with a fan ownership model and secure fan input and approval.

Will 3BC hand over the shares as planned?

Colin Weir has made it clear he doesn’t want to own a football club – he has carried out these deals through 3BC to pave the way for fan ownership.

The land and stand is in the process of being transferred back to the Club. That means Thistle will own the full stadium and its environs again for the first time in over 10 years.

The 55% shareholding will be transferred to fan ownership no later than 30th March 2020.

Between now and then, 3BC is asking Thistle fans to come together and bring forward a workable model for fan ownership through a Working Group. The shares will be handed on.

What happens to the small shareholders who haven’t had the opportunity to sell their shares?

3BC is looking at a way for the small shareholders (who own around 8% of the Club) to benefit from the offer made to the majority shareholding group. There is likely to be three options – an offer to purchase individual’s shares; to assist them to gift them to the new fans’ shareholders group; or to keep them.

What’s the future of the management team?

On day one of the new ownership, the interim Board and 3BC told the manager that the management team had their full support and that he would be given time and backing to build the team.

What’s the Club’s aspiration for this season?

Clearly, the short-term objective is to move off the bottom of the table and start climbing the league. But in discussion with the manager, we mustn’t limit our aspirations, even though it is currently challenging, so the interim Board will fully support the management team in their objective of finishing as high in the league as possible.

Will there be extra money for the January window?

In the usual way, the manager has put his costed plans to the interim Board and they have agreed to his proposal for activity in the transfer window. The interim Board’s objective is to support the manager’s aim to finish as high as we can, so they are acutely aware of the importance of financing the manager’s plans in this window.

How will the club be financed after 30th March?

Exactly as it is now and has always been, by being self-funded via various income streams, which are being strengthened to increase monies into the Club. In addition, money from fans pledging money to the new fan ownership group will come in to play as fans decide how to spend it.

Are there any plans to invest in or develop the stadium following the purchase of the land and stand? Are there any plans to improve “the bing”?

3BC has no plans to do anything major whilst they are interim owners. It will be for fans to consider what to do with the ground once they are owners.

Is there going to be a training ground?

The opportunity to buy the majority shareholding and land at Firhill arose and a decision was made to use the majority of 3BC’s existing budget to fund those deals. Regrettably, that means that the training ground will not go ahead at present but it is something others might want to look at in future.

Was there ever actually going to be a training ground?

Yes. 3BC had set aside a budget for the new training ground. After a false start with a site at Kirkintilloch, agreement had been reached to purchase land around a mile away from Firhill. When Colin Weir stepped away from Thistle in July, 3BC put that on hold. The purchase of the shares and land used a significant chunk of that money so it is no longer possible to restart the project.

What has the deal meant for the future of the academy?

The arrangement Colin had prior to stepping back in July – to fund the Academy to 2021 – has been restarted. It restores stability and allows the Academy the time to transition to being financially independent in 2022.

What will be the involvement of Colin Weir / 3BC after 30th March?

There will be no further involvement for 3BC after that but Colin will continue as the Patron of the Club and as a fan

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The Well Society was cited as a best in practice case study in fan ownership? Why is that the case and what can we learn from them?

The Well Society has achieved so much in three years using a simple but effective structure, with clearly defined roles and responsibilities for all involved. Having raised almost £800,000 for their club over that period, it shows the possibilities of fan ownership at its best so there’s a lot we can learn from Motherwell, good and bad. But there will also be an opportunity to hear about projects that have gone wrong so that we can avoid a similar situation.

 

Lets remember the Well Society has 2800 members. They also had a scheme that for every pound raised Les Hutchison matched, meaning an extra £250000 went in the pot. Also due to a percentage of profit on transfers being allocated to the fund, this has helped them greatly. 

 

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2 hours ago, jagfox said:

Transcript of Q and A.

Please don't quote this post. Just copy and paste the bits relevant to your posts. Thanks.

Friday 6th December, 2019 at 12:00pm

Following Three Back Cats’ acquisition of a majority shareholding of Partick Thistle – and land at Firhill – two weeks ago, the club is pleased to provide supporters with this detailed Q&A update which includes the next steps in the transition to fan ownership by 30 March, 2020.

What has been happening since the announcement was made?

A great deal, on a number of fronts. Work on transferring back to the Club continues. The interim Board has met the manager to talk about supporting him in the transfer window. The details of the Working Group are being worked on and are the key focus – that’s got to be right to ensure the transfer of shares goes ahead at the end of March 2020.

Who owns Partick Thistle Football Club now?

Three Black Cats Ltd (3BC) bought the 55% of shares in Thistle that were held by a majority shareholding group. It also bought the assets of Firhill Developments, which are the south terrace (the bing) and the main stand. Colin Weir personally owns a further 10% of shares, the PTFC Trust owns 19.46%, the Jags Trust owns 7% and small shareholders own the remaining 8+%.

Who or what is Three Black Cats Ltd (3BC)?

It’s the development company owned by Jags fan and Club Patron Colin Weir. It purchased the 55% majority shareholding in Partick Thistle and the land owned by Firhill Developments Ltd.

How’s the Club operating between now and March?

The interim Board is running the Club on a day to day basis, so it is very much business as usual. In parallel, the Working Group has been set up to start working with fans to identify the right model for fan ownership.

These are two distinct groups – the interim Board will have to approve the transfer of shares to fans, so it won’t participate in the Working Group.

Who’s on the interim Board and who appointed them?

Individuals with a range of business backgrounds, the majority being longstanding Jags fans. They were appointed by the majority shareholder 3BC. The names and profiles of the interim Board can be viewed here: https://ptfc.co.uk/club/whos-who/board/

Why is there no Chairman on the interim Board?

It was felt by 3BC that, after the upheaval of recent months, the next Chairman of the Club should not be interim but a permanent Chairman appointed come March. There’s enough experience on the interim Board to organise chairing of meetings on rotation amongst the interim Directors.

What’s Jacqui Low’s role?

Jacqui Low is one of two Directors of 3BC, the company that owns a majority shareholding in PTFC, along with Colin Weir. Jacqui is Colin’s nominated representative to liaise with the Club, to protect 3BC’s interests in Thistle until March 2020 and to ensure that the shares are handed over to fans within the stated timescale. She is not on the interim Board.

What’s the Working Group?

3BC invited the single biggest shareholder, the PTFC Trust, and campaign group Thistle for Ever (TfE) to begin the process of setting up a Working Group to identify the best model for fan ownership at Thistle. However, the Working Group will operate independently of any one fan group and aims to provide a forum to bring fans, from all parts of the Club, together. It will also engage with fans directly about the project.

Why isn’t it already talking to fans? Why isn’t it better organised?

Until the deal was completed, there couldn’t be any sharing of information. It was only once the deal was done that the Working Group could begin to take shape. So it is very early days but things are beginning to happen quite quickly behind the scenes and it will be ready to launch next week. It will have its own communications channels and those need to be set up properly, even if it is only interim.

Who’s on the Working Group? Who’s running the Working Group?

No one group is in charge of the Working Group. Labels will be left at the door and the best way to describe it is to say that the Working Group will be like Switzerland – neutral. It will be a place for fans to share ideas with challenge but without criticism. Initial members have been identified but there will further people added. It is important that the membership reflects different interests and groupings from around the Club, so there will be a call going out to the whole fanbase asking for people to step forward to help with the work of the Working Group.

What happens with the Working Group from next week?

There is an outline scoping document that lays out the broad-brush approach being taken to enable everything to be done within the timescales.  That includes a strategy for communicating with fans, including events over the next few months.

The Well Society was cited as a best in practice case study in fan ownership? Why is that the case and what can we learn from them?

The Well Society has achieved so much in three years using a simple but effective structure, with clearly defined roles and responsibilities for all involved. Having raised almost £800,000 for their club over that period, it shows the possibilities of fan ownership at its best so there’s a lot we can learn from Motherwell, good and bad. But there will also be an opportunity to hear about projects that have gone wrong so that we can avoid a similar situation.

When will we know more from the Working Group?

The Working Group will go public in the course of next week.  It has four months to come up with a fan ownership model and secure fan input and approval.

Will 3BC hand over the shares as planned?

Colin Weir has made it clear he doesn’t want to own a football club – he has carried out these deals through 3BC to pave the way for fan ownership.

The land and stand is in the process of being transferred back to the Club. That means Thistle will own the full stadium and its environs again for the first time in over 10 years.

The 55% shareholding will be transferred to fan ownership no later than 30th March 2020.

Between now and then, 3BC is asking Thistle fans to come together and bring forward a workable model for fan ownership through a Working Group. The shares will be handed on.

What happens to the small shareholders who haven’t had the opportunity to sell their shares?

3BC is looking at a way for the small shareholders (who own around 8% of the Club) to benefit from the offer made to the majority shareholding group. There is likely to be three options – an offer to purchase individual’s shares; to assist them to gift them to the new fans’ shareholders group; or to keep them.

What’s the future of the management team?

On day one of the new ownership, the interim Board and 3BC told the manager that the management team had their full support and that he would be given time and backing to build the team.

What’s the Club’s aspiration for this season?

Clearly, the short-term objective is to move off the bottom of the table and start climbing the league. But in discussion with the manager, we mustn’t limit our aspirations, even though it is currently challenging, so the interim Board will fully support the management team in their objective of finishing as high in the league as possible.

Will there be extra money for the January window?

In the usual way, the manager has put his costed plans to the interim Board and they have agreed to his proposal for activity in the transfer window. The interim Board’s objective is to support the manager’s aim to finish as high as we can, so they are acutely aware of the importance of financing the manager’s plans in this window.

How will the club be financed after 30th March?

Exactly as it is now and has always been, by being self-funded via various income streams, which are being strengthened to increase monies into the Club. In addition, money from fans pledging money to the new fan ownership group will come in to play as fans decide how to spend it.

Are there any plans to invest in or develop the stadium following the purchase of the land and stand? Are there any plans to improve “the bing”?

3BC has no plans to do anything major whilst they are interim owners. It will be for fans to consider what to do with the ground once they are owners.

Is there going to be a training ground?

The opportunity to buy the majority shareholding and land at Firhill arose and a decision was made to use the majority of 3BC’s existing budget to fund those deals. Regrettably, that means that the training ground will not go ahead at present but it is something others might want to look at in future.

Was there ever actually going to be a training ground?

Yes. 3BC had set aside a budget for the new training ground. After a false start with a site at Kirkintilloch, agreement had been reached to purchase land around a mile away from Firhill. When Colin Weir stepped away from Thistle in July, 3BC put that on hold. The purchase of the shares and land used a significant chunk of that money so it is no longer possible to restart the project.

What has the deal meant for the future of the academy?

The arrangement Colin had prior to stepping back in July – to fund the Academy to 2021 – has been restarted. It restores stability and allows the Academy the time to transition to being financially independent in 2022.

What will be the involvement of Colin Weir / 3BC after 30th March?

There will be no further involvement for 3BC after that but Colin will continue as the Patron of the Club and as a fan

So. Jacqui Low's sticky fingers are involved. Lol

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11 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said:

So. Jacqui Low's sticky fingers are involved. Lol

'Protect 3BC’s interests in Thistle until March'. 

Even for a statement brimming with euphemism and evasion, to my absolute non-surprise, it says nothing about what happens after that. 

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11 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said:

'Protect 3BC’s interests in Thistle until March'. 

Even for a statement brimming with euphemism and evasion, to my absolute non-surprise, it says nothing about what happens after that. 

Don't really see where the euphimisms are but can I take it what you are obliquely referring to is what will Jacqui Low do after that? I would guess that as the quote below states if she wanted to have any further involvement she will have the same opportunity as any other fan.

"Will 3BC hand over the shares as planned?

Colin Weir has made it clear he doesn’t want to own a football club – he has carried out these deals through 3BC to pave the way for fan ownership.

The land and stand is in the process of being transferred back to the Club. That means Thistle will own the full stadium and its environs again for the first time in over 10 years.

The 55% shareholding will be transferred to fan ownership no later than 30th March 2020."

 

Edited by scotty
spelling
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3 hours ago, jagfox said:

Transcript of Q and A.

Please don't quote this post. Just copy and paste the bits relevant to your posts. Thanks.

How did that go?

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On 12/1/2019 at 9:20 PM, Pinhead said:

Paul Goodwin is that not the guy that was hounded out with pitchforks by Stirling Albion fans?

Can someone point to what did happen at Stirling Albion? As it was over eight years ago that he stood down it's difficult to find anything but oft repeated jibes. Stirling Albion are still going so wasn't the fans takeover successful?

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On 12/1/2019 at 9:20 PM, Pinhead said:

Paul Goodwin is that not the guy that was hounded out with pitchforks by Stirling Albion fans?

Some comments from Binos on P&B:
     'too incompetent for Stirling Albion’ (f---me!);

     ‘keep Goodwin away from your club he is bad news’.

 

In case anyone is intending to cast any doubt on the validity of accepting advice from fans of other clubs, just remember what Wigan and Chesterfield fans had to say about Caldo the Clown.

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11 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said:

Some comments from Binos on P&B:
     'too incompetent for Stirling Albion’ (f---me!);

     ‘keep Goodwin away from your club he is bad news’.

 

 

 

In case anyone is intending to cast any doubt on the validity of accepting advice from fans of other clubs, just remember what Wigan and Chesterfield fans had to say about Caldo the Clown.

 

Or remember what you have said about p and b ?

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3 hours ago, Semi Nurainen said:

'Protect 3BC’s interests in Thistle until March'. 

Even for a statement brimming with euphemism and evasion, to my absolute non-surprise, it says nothing about what happens after that. 

It’s great news she’s involved ....

after March you moan to yourself ,,,,, soo good ! 

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