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Fan Ownership Working Group


Springburnjag
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7 minutes ago, Big Col said:

Goodwin is clearly running the show and you seem to be the chief cheerleader for what he’s doing. So even though you don’t know him or his background, you’re entrusting the future of our club in his hands without question.

Eh no I’m not and if you can point to anything I’ve said or done that would support your ridiculous assertion let me know 

do you know him ? 
 

what is your alternative ?

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51 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Eh no I’m not and if you can point to anything I’ve said or done that would support your ridiculous assertion let me know 

do you know him ? 
 

what is your alternative ?

So you don’t trust him then?

And just because he’s the only show in town at the moment doesn’t make it the right thing for the club.

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18 hours ago, Big Col said:

So you don’t trust him then?

And just because he’s the only show in town at the moment doesn’t make it the right thing for the club.

Look like most fans I’m open minded at this stage .....I don’t know the guy and you don’t seem to either but for some reason you have reduced community ownership to him - who might not even be elected to anything 

so give us your views in : Allan Heron, Tom Hosie, Pauline Graham, Gordon Shaw, Elaine Sibbald, ....are they acceptable fans or not ?

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4 hours ago, javeajag said:

Look like most fans I’m open minded at this stage .....I don’t know the guy and you don’t seem to either but for some reason you have reduced community ownership to him - who might not even be elected to anything 

so give us your views in : Allan Heron, Tom Hosie, Pauline Graham, Gordon Shaw, Elaine Sibbald, ....are they acceptable fans or not ?

I’m not taking about anyone else except Mr Goodwin, who has already been installed (not elected) as chairman of the working group so he has a massive input on this. Community Ownership wasn’t even on the cards till he showed up. It’s not exactly been a blinding success elsewhere. 

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1 minute ago, Big Col said:

I’m not taking about anyone else except Mr Goodwin, who has already been installed (not elected) as chairman of the working group so he has a massive input on this. Community Ownership wasn’t even on the cards till he showed up. It’s not exactly been a blinding success elsewhere. 

Yes if only Motherwell were third in the league 

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2 minutes ago, Big Col said:

I’m not taking about anyone else except Mr Goodwin, who has already been installed (not elected) as chairman of the working group so he has a massive input on this. Community Ownership wasn’t even on the cards till he showed up. It’s not exactly been a blinding success elsewhere. 

Ian Wright is the Chairman of the Working Group.

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13 minutes ago, Big Col said:

Motherwell who lost almost £500,000 in the first year of full fan ownership. 

Funny you don’t give Hearts as an example.

Thought you might say that ....so tell me what else you know about Motherwells finances ?Are their fans unhappy ? 

an explanation of how that loss relates to fan ownership would be good and how come we have made losses without being fan owned ?

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2 hours ago, javeajag said:

Thought you might say that ....so tell me what else you know about Motherwells finances ?Are their fans unhappy ? 

an explanation of how that loss relates to fan ownership would be good and how come we have made losses without being fan owned ?

The day that they announced their loss was the day that Mr Goodwin was fawning over the Motherwell model. Wasn’t the best of timing was it.

You’ve made it clear you’re totally for fan ownership and don’t seem to have any doubts at all about the man running the show. Hope you don’t end up with egg on your face.

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29 minutes ago, Big Col said:

The day that they announced their loss was the day that Mr Goodwin was fawning over the Motherwell model. Wasn’t the best of timing was it.

You’ve made it clear you’re totally for fan ownership and don’t seem to have any doubts at all about the man running the show. Hope you don’t end up with egg on your face.

I have never said any of that and if you read my posts even on this thread you would know that I have been very lukewarm on fan ownership but it’s currently the only show in town so we need to try and make the best if it .....remember if it fails the vultures may return 

I would be interested if you could show any connection between Motherwell being fan owned and their loss for this year ( second time of asking )  and possibly why most clubs who make losses are not fan owned including us 

I am keeping an open mind until I see the concrete proposals .....your not 

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On 20 December 2019 at 5:31 PM, javeajag said:

Eh no .... both can kill companies ....debt killed rangers 

and let’s be honest you are just speculating on the finances when we could all agree that we don’t have information on what they currently are or will be for next season 

Nope No Speculation - this Years Budget was clearly stated at the AGM 

And unless there is a substantial influx of Cash circa £1MN or Cuts of the same Value we have an issue - so save your it will all be Wonderful - Where do you think the Money is going to come from since your all for Fan Ownership ?

 

 

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6 hours ago, javeajag said:

I have never said any of that and if you read my posts even on this thread you would know that I have been very lukewarm on fan ownership but it’s currently the only show in town so we need to try and make the best if it .....remember if it fails the vultures may return 

I would be interested if you could show any connection between Motherwell being fan owned and their loss for this year ( second time of asking )  and possibly why most clubs who make losses are not fan owned including us 

I am keeping an open mind until I see the concrete proposals .....your not 

No your Not - its the only option you have remotely suggested - and you have backed it 100% without question 

As for those proposing it e.g. TFE and the Thistle Trust show me there Business Experience ? 

 

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5 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Nope No Speculation - this Years Budget was clearly stated at the AGM 

And unless there is a substantial influx of Cash circa £1MN or Cuts of the same Value we have an issue - so save your it will all be Wonderful - Where do you think the Money is going to come from since your all for Fan Ownership ?

 

 

If you know the current state of our finances tell us ....if you don’t then  you are speculating because 7 months have passed since the agm and we don’t know what has happened 

what I don’t get is the link between fan ownership and this as it occurred under non fan ownership!

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5 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

No your Not - its the only option you have remotely suggested - and you have backed it 100% without question 

As for those proposing it e.g. TFE and the Thistle Trust show me there Business Experience ? 

 

I haven’t suggested any other option because I’m not aware there is one and possibly because when you were supporting Paul Conway you kept telling us we had run out of business benefactors !

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9 minutes ago, javeajag said:

If you know the current state of our finances tell us ....if you don’t then  you are speculating because 7 months have passed since the agm and we don’t know what has happened 

what I don’t get is the link between fan ownership and this as it occurred under non fan ownership!

AGM was September 26th, not 7 months ago

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From the Motherwell AGM, it’s stated on their accounts that the fan contributions to Well Society need to be maintained to ensure the club remains a going concern. 

We keep hearing German model, Swedish football and South American models from TFE.

Germany is 50+1 model which allows for significant investment from the 49% as long as they o not control more than that percentage, also with a population of 63 million and 52 professional clubs, pool of fans is massively more than Scotland with 5million and 42 clubs.

Sweden, football clubs are part of sport club of town, and people do buy 50% share in Sports club to fully control the football club.

South American football is know for its corruption so hardly a benchmark 

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24 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

From the Motherwell AGM, it’s stated on their accounts that the fan contributions to Well Society need to be maintained to ensure the club remains a going concern. 

We keep hearing German model, Swedish football and South American models from TFE.

Germany is 50+1 model which allows for significant investment from the 49% as long as they o not control more than that percentage, also with a population of 63 million and 52 professional clubs, pool of fans is massively more than Scotland with 5million and 42 clubs.

Sweden, football clubs are part of sport club of town, and people do buy 50% share in Sports club to fully control the football club.

South American football is know for its corruption so hardly a benchmark 

What’s your plan ?

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23 minutes ago, javeajag said:

What’s your plan ?

Myself like 90% of fans were never asked for “our plan” Paul Goodwin decided that full fan ownership was what we wanted, and managed to persuade both Colin Weir and PTFC Trust that this was the way forward.

Did PTFC Trust consult its members if this was the way forward? No

Did PTFC Trust consult or ballot it’s members regarding the incorrect statement it put out regarding lack of Due Diligence that was rebuked at the AGM? No

Did PTFC Trust remove that statement or answer fans on it after AGM (They were asked directly by myself and others)? No

Was PTFC Trust set up by the same folk who have a hand in TFE, merely 3BC’s ? Yes

 

There is a clear conflict of interest between PTFC Trust involvement and backing of this, acting on their own without consulting or respecting their members who they are there to represent.

 

As for my plan, I wouldn’t have allowed for more than 51% of the club to be held by a fans group, this allows for investment of 49% .

After Save The Jags, the constitution was set up so no one person could outright control the club. 

With 55% TFE + 10% Colin Weir + 18% PTFC Trust shares now being effectively controlled (later owned) by same person or “company “ those checks and balances are now gone, we will be easier to be aggressively taken over by an asset stripper in 2 or 3 years if the fan ownership fails.

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23 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Myself like 90% of fans were never asked for “our plan” Paul Goodwin decided that full fan ownership was what we wanted, and managed to persuade both Colin Weir and PTFC Trust that this was the way forward.

Did PTFC Trust consult its members if this was the way forward? No

Did PTFC Trust consult or ballot it’s members regarding the incorrect statement it put out regarding lack of Due Diligence that was rebuked at the AGM? No

Did PTFC Trust remove that statement or answer fans on it after AGM (They were asked directly by myself and others)? No

Was PTFC Trust set up by the same folk who have a hand in TFE, merely 3BC’s ? Yes

 

There is a clear conflict of interest between PTFC Trust involvement and backing of this, acting on their own without consulting or respecting their members who they are there to represent.

 

As for my plan, I wouldn’t have allowed for more than 51% of the club to be held by a fans group, this allows for investment of 49% .

After Save The Jags, the constitution was set up so no one person could outright control the club. 

With 55% TFE + 10% Colin Weir + 18% PTFC Trust shares now being effectively controlled (later owned) by same person or “company “ those checks and balances are now gone, we will be easier to be aggressively taken over by an asset stripper in 2 or 3 years if the fan ownership fails.

Ok .... let’s call your idea a plan .... have you fed it in to the working group ? 

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2 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Ok .... let’s call your idea a plan .... have you fed it in to the working group ? 

It can’t work as already the plan has approx 88% of shares, plus Jags Trust 8% only leaves 4% for additional investment (less small shareholders). 
We can no longer get external investment exec from the TFE sign up

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Surely if the fans own the club there is less likelihood of an asset stripper taking over the club? Ironically this could have happened under the old model.....or have I missed something? Secondly if the club fails under fan ownership it fails. It's no different to any club that fails under a different model. The bottom line is that nothing is certain in football. 

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3 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

It can’t work as already the plan has approx 88% of shares, plus Jags Trust 8% only leaves 4% for additional investment (less small shareholders). 
We can no longer get external investment exec from the TFE sign up

Maybe if the team improves more fans will buy in to pledging more money to the club? I would. So investment of a sort. Also further down the line could the fan ownership not sell a portion for external investment purposes? I accept that I dont have enough knowledge on that front. 

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