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Fan Ownership Working Group


Springburnjag
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1 hour ago, Semi Nurainen said:

Constructive? What, 'constructive' as in the way you slip in wee snide personal remarks?

Hilarious. You state people are talking ##### and you dont give a flying ####. I merely said ( accurately ) that you are unduly negative about the teams result prior to the game and often during it. Suck it up. 

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26 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Have a read at their supporters forum on FB or their fans comments on our page on P&B to work it out for yourself or even read the Pars fans views on him getting involved with them.

The only thing I can find on the Thistle P&B page is this, which may or may not be from a Stirling Albion fan,  "He is a total zoomer don't let him near your club". Anything else is Thistle fans saying what Albion fans have "said". How far back on the facebook page do I need to go? By work it out for myself do you mean make it up for myself?
 

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13 minutes ago, scotty said:

The only thing I can find on the Thistle P&B page is this, which may or may not be from a Stirling Albion fan,  "He is a total zoomer don't let him near your club". Anything else is Thistle fans saying what Albion fans have "said". How far back on the facebook page do I need to go? By work it out for myself do you mean make it up for myself?
 

I’m not sure what happened ten years ago there  is going to shed a lot of light on our situation today....the reference to Stirling has never got beyond ‘ someone said something ‘ .....the main driver for it is to cast doubt on Paul Goodwin - who I don’t know - and fan ownership it seems to me 

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30 minutes ago, scotty said:

The only thing I can find on the Thistle P&B page is this, which may or may not be from a Stirling Albion fan,  "He is a total zoomer don't let him near your club". Anything else is Thistle fans saying what Albion fans have "said". How far back on the facebook page do I need to go? By work it out for myself do you mean make it up for myself?
 

Check their thread on P&B and their fans Facebook page

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4 minutes ago, allyo said:

I tried the P&B thing but there's about 4000 pages

https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/search/&q="Paul Goodwin"&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy&page=2

Start on page 2, it appears he’s been involved with Stirling, East Fife, Hibs, Dunfermline, Livi, Dundee and now us.

Comments on other forums (FB) from some of these clubs have it all being up him promoting him. The Beano’s I know do not think that much of his involvement. 

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6 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Beat me to it. Only Thistle could organise a meeting about the football club during a football game involving the club.

But as the Glasgow Cup games are the most poorly advertised games ever, maybe everyone missed it being on that night. The official site doesn't evem say where it is being played.

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24 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/search/&q="Paul Goodwin"&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy&page=2

Start on page 2, it appears he’s been involved with Stirling, East Fife, Hibs, Dunfermline, Livi, Dundee and now us.

Comments on other forums (FB) from some of these clubs have it all being up him promoting him. The Beano’s I know do not think that much of his involvement

Looks like they were even less impressed by his replacement when the board he was on stepped down.

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33 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/search/&q="Paul Goodwin"&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy&page=2

Start on page 2, it appears he’s been involved with Stirling, East Fife, Hibs, Dunfermline, Livi, Dundee and now us.

Comments on other forums (FB) from some of these clubs have it all being up him promoting him. The Beano’s I know do not think that much of his involvement. 

To be honest I think you can only take so much from fans' forums. As is well demonstrated here, passions get the better of people, there is a lack of accountability, and there is generally a lot of nonsense spoken.

Having said that, just a quick scan through the pages that you linked seems to give a fairly mixed picture, and doesn't seem to present a convincing argument that this person's involvement should be seen as a terrible thing. He is experienced, he has supported delivery of fan ownership and some people aren't completely happy. I wouldn't expect anything else to be honest. We're probably all going to read whatever we want to into these things.

However your contacts at Stirling, if they were involved in the process, will I'm sure have better information than anything we're going to find on Pie and Bovril.

Edited by allyo
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2 hours ago, scotty said:

But as the Glasgow Cup games are the most poorly advertised games ever, maybe everyone missed it being on that night. The official site doesn't evem say where it is being played.

Good point. Btw We're playing in Dumbarton. 

I suppose it's probably asking a bit too much of the Club to know where and when 7 or 8 of their 1st team squad are playing. 

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2 hours ago, allyo said:

To be honest I think you can only take so much from fans' forums. As is well demonstrated here, passions get the better of people, there is a lack of accountability, and there is generally a lot of nonsense spoken.

Having said that, just a quick scan through the pages that you linked seems to give a fairly mixed picture, and doesn't seem to present a convincing argument that this person's involvement should be seen as a terrible thing. He is experienced, he has supported delivery of fan ownership and some people aren't completely happy. I wouldn't expect anything else to be honest. We're probably all going to read whatever we want to into these things.

However your contacts at Stirling, if they were involved in the process, will I'm sure have better information than anything we're going to find on Pie and Bovril.

This is from their fans group after the whole trust resigned last year.

307BFDA1-1FE5-48CB-81B5-0402DB3BBC8F.png

9A95C171-EDE4-4522-B02D-CB4ED2B4125D.png

Edited by Norgethistle
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15 hours ago, jagfox said:

B2CD3095-AE47-4E85-8FE4-F57D554B8199.thumb.jpeg.b78e17d7f67c792092540313ba6376a4.jpeg

OK - So if appointments to the Board require Approval of 3BC - Im pretty much assuming that as Majority Shareholder -then all key decisions require there approval also  - which Begs the Question - whats the purpose of the interim Board-  if they have No real Say in the decisions regards the Club-  a also it clearly shows 3BC have a Major say in what goes on at PTFC - Question is to what level -

Suppose it depends on interpretation of what the position is of a Majority Shareholder

Plus  the interim Board were appointed by 3BC - so in essence - whats there role ?  

It does ask questions as to the Statements by TFE and  the Article in the ET ? 

 

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7 hours ago, javeajag said:

I think I invited him to ask those questions to someone who could answer them which is nit anyone here byt since he knows Alan heron he could do that directly with him but chooses not to 

Ok interesting - How do you know-  I know Alan Heron ? 

Ive never mentioned his name - so how do you know that ? Its not widely known as I know him outwith PTFC  

Also I did ask Questions of TFE - still waiting on answers  - so thats a waste of time - others asked Questions to the Thistle Trust - no responses 

Your not involved in the TFE thing-but you know I know Alan Heron ? And why didnt I contact him

- its simple I think TFE /Thistle Trust  are taking this Club down a route the Fans have zero interest in - I think it could either end up with our demise- or have the Elected Board as a toothless Bowling Club Committee - with the real decisions taken elsewhere - I think they did this because its there View- not that its reflected in the Fans and this is imposed on us - like it or not  

I think there is a Danger of it repeating the Dundee Trust Disaster- and the Club including the Ground which is a tidy Assett being Sold off in the Cheap - and my instinct is that even at this moment people are looking with interest - Kilbowie ? 

So I have no interest in Communicating with Alan Heron- Goodwin or the Trust Members or the Cabal who are part of it-  but Post on here as just ordinary Fans - talking about people being negative - pushing there agenda but not declaring who they are

This Season we had a £750K Budget deficit which was the difference between Forecasted Revenue and Overhead plus we have a £250K Parachute Payment - the deficit was   made up due to unforecasted Transfer Fees in the May 2019 Budget  - thats £1MN on Non Repeated Income for Next Season   -WHERE IS IT COMING FROM ? 

Go on - explain ? your the Finance Expert - where we getting £1MN from  

They are real figures - Not my opinion stated at the AGM so where is the Cash coming from - TFE - Thistle Trust - those who pushed for this - the Anti Beattie Brigade on Twitter - where is the £1MN coming from ? as the ordinary Revenue Streams showed that was the shortfall 

Negative - sorry Amigo - Im just a realist - Whatever Happened to the Training  Ground ? 

So lets just see what happens shall we before making comments about people - lets see what they all deliver - talking is easy - delivering is the hard bit   

     

  

 

  

 

   

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16 hours ago, allyo said:

Questions have to be asked. Absolutely right.

However the impression that I keep getting is that there are half a dozen or so posters who have been against this from the start, who have already decided that they have no trust in TFE and who will criticize anything that they do. It seems to be based on personalities who I have no knowledge of, and often shrouded in innuendo and rumour. And to be honest, from the outside, it completely turns me off your arguments. The impression is not of a valid critique, but of a campaign to undermine fan ownership before it has been given any opportunity to get started.

I, and I think most members of the forum, am positive about fan ownership as a principle but a bit nervous about how it will pan out. It obviously needs a degree of unity and cooperation which is not evident at the moment.

You may be right in your views, but this barrage from yourself and a small group who appear to have nothing positive to say will not win me over to your side of the argument. If anything I think it will polarise people to the other side. And polarisation of the fans is the last thing we need for the sake of Thistle.

Show me in my Post where there is a Barrage - every question asked is Valid - as for Personalities - people Judge on Track records - thats how life Works 

So save this nonsense about "polarisation " a small Cabal imposed Fan Ownership on us - Fans had zero input - so lets be clear on that  - undermine it ? 

Would you care to point out the desire for it beyond a handful of people in TFE / Thistle Trust 

Fan Ownership at this Club is going to be a Carcrash - it has no Support - Dundee had Wide Support it crashed & burned - sorry unity my arse - this is on TFE & the Thistle Trust  - No one was interested in Fan Ownership nor ever called for it   

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3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Show me in my Post where there is a Barrage - every question asked is Valid - as for Personalities - people Judge on Track records - thats how life Works 

So save this nonsense about "polarisation " a small Cabal imposed Fan Ownership on us - Fans had zero input - so lets be clear on that  - undermine it ? 

Would you care to point out the desire for it beyond a handful of people in TFE / Thistle Trust 

Fan Ownership at this Club is going to be a Carcrash - it has no Support - Dundee had Wide Support it crashed & burned - sorry unity my arse - this is on TFE & the Thistle Trust  - No one was interested in Fan Ownership nor ever called for it   

Cue another poll?

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3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Show me in my Post where there is a Barrage - every question asked is Valid - as for Personalities - people Judge on Track records - thats how life Works 

So save this nonsense about "polarisation " a small Cabal imposed Fan Ownership on us - Fans had zero input - so lets be clear on that  - undermine it ? 

Would you care to point out the desire for it beyond a handful of people in TFE / Thistle Trust 

Fan Ownership at this Club is going to be a Carcrash - it has no Support - Dundee had Wide Support it crashed & burned - sorry unity my arse - this is on TFE & the Thistle Trust  - No one was interested in Fan Ownership nor ever called for it   

I think you are right that the prospect of fan ownership with no real support from the fans is likely to fail. However, it wasn’t inevitable that it would happen without Colin Weir’s interjection of cash. 
I am sure he thinks he is doing the right thing for Thistle based on the advice that he has been getting. 
Maybe listening to Bryan Jackson on Tuesday will give an independent view on the best way for fan ownership to succeed. I would suggest that if people are really interested in the future of PTFC they should go to this meeting. It is probably more important than a City of Glasgow Cup tie vs a Celtic colts team.


 

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5 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Show me in my Post where there is a Barrage - every question asked is Valid - as for Personalities - people Judge on Track records - thats how life Works 

So save this nonsense about "polarisation " a small Cabal imposed Fan Ownership on us - Fans had zero input - so lets be clear on that  - undermine it ? 

Would you care to point out the desire for it beyond a handful of people in TFE / Thistle Trust 

Fan Ownership at this Club is going to be a Carcrash - it has no Support - Dundee had Wide Support it crashed & burned - sorry unity my arse - this is on TFE & the Thistle Trust  - No one was interested in Fan Ownership nor ever called for it   

Your post wasn't the barrage. The barrage is a collection of posts, and not just from yourself.

Polarisation is a problem in my opinion. The fans need a level of unity. To be clear, the point of my post is not that you are wrong. I don't know if you are. My point is that the relentless message of negativity without any constructive proposals is turning people off.

I will, as suggested, create a poll. Because I'd be very interested. My guess is that many fans are like me. They were happy with the Beattie board, less happy with the Low board, but given that the old board wanted to sell then in a straight choice between the consortium and fan ownership they'd prefer fan ownership. Also note that the old board, which is generally acknowledged to have had the interests of the club at heart, and which stated that it would not sell unless it thought it was in the interests of the club, sold to Colin Weir.

Your final point is a statement, which is clearly your belief. It may be a car crash. You seem to think this is inevitable, whereas i think this depends on how well it is done, and how well the fans engage.  It will definitely be a car crash if the fans don't get behind it. Which is why I think the constant negitivity is undermining the process and potentially hurting the future of the club.

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1 hour ago, Lenziejag said:

I think you are right that the prospect of fan ownership with no real support from the fans is likely to fail. However, it wasn’t inevitable that it would happen without Colin Weir’s interjection of cash. 
I am sure he thinks he is doing the right thing for Thistle based on the advice that he has been getting. 
Maybe listening to Bryan Jackson on Tuesday will give an independent view on the best way for fan ownership to succeed. I would suggest that if people are really interested in the future of PTFC they should go to this meeting. It is probably more important than a City of Glasgow Cup tie vs a Celtic colts team.


 

Reasonable point 

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6 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

OK - So if appointments to the Board require Approval of 3BC - Im pretty much assuming that as Majority Shareholder -then all key decisions require there approval also  - which Begs the Question - whats the purpose of the interim Board-  if they have No real Say in the decisions regards the Club-  a also it clearly shows 3BC have a Major say in what goes on at PTFC - Question is to what level -

Suppose it depends on interpretation of what the position is of a Majority Shareholder

Plus  the interim Board were appointed by 3BC - so in essence - whats there role ?  

It does ask questions as to the Statements by TFE and  the Article in the ET ? 

 

It’s pretty simple ....the interim board run the club on a day to day basis with the owner approving any strategic decisions they wish to make ....that is what happens everywhere .....3BC own 65% of the club they can do what they like ....I think your confusing yourself 

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6 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok interesting - How do you know-  I know Alan Heron ? 

Ive never mentioned his name - so how do you know that ? Its not widely known as I know him outwith PTFC  

Also I did ask Questions of TFE - still waiting on answers  - so thats a waste of time - others asked Questions to the Thistle Trust - no responses 

Your not involved in the TFE thing-but you know I know Alan Heron ? And why didnt I contact him

- its simple I think TFE /Thistle Trust  are taking this Club down a route the Fans have zero interest in - I think it could either end up with our demise- or have the Elected Board as a toothless Bowling Club Committee - with the real decisions taken elsewhere - I think they did this because its there View- not that its reflected in the Fans and this is imposed on us - like it or not  

I think there is a Danger of it repeating the Dundee Trust Disaster- and the Club including the Ground which is a tidy Assett being Sold off in the Cheap - and my instinct is that even at this moment people are looking with interest - Kilbowie ? 

So I have no interest in Communicating with Alan Heron- Goodwin or the Trust Members or the Cabal who are part of it-  but Post on here as just ordinary Fans - talking about people being negative - pushing there agenda but not declaring who they are

This Season we had a £750K Budget deficit which was the difference between Forecasted Revenue and Overhead plus we have a £250K Parachute Payment - the deficit was   made up due to unforecasted Transfer Fees in the May 2019 Budget  - thats £1MN on Non Repeated Income for Next Season   -WHERE IS IT COMING FROM ? 

Go on - explain ? your the Finance Expert - where we getting £1MN from  

They are real figures - Not my opinion stated at the AGM so where is the Cash coming from - TFE - Thistle Trust - those who pushed for this - the Anti Beattie Brigade on Twitter - where is the £1MN coming from ? as the ordinary Revenue Streams showed that was the shortfall 

Negative - sorry Amigo - Im just a realist - Whatever Happened to the Training  Ground ? 

So lets just see what happens shall we before making comments about people - lets see what they all deliver - talking is easy - delivering is the hard bit   

     

  

 

  

 

   

Ok you know Allan heron but don’t want to ask him all these questions..... but us who you don’t know and can’t answer all these questions you ask? 

you see I understand the dangers and risks of fan ownership and I have never been that enthusiastic about it but that’s where we now are and we have to move forward from here .....Colin weir clearly doesn’t want to run the club and likes the idea of fans owning it either we can try and make it work or snipe from the sidelines 

assuming figures are correct the £1m can only come from internally or externally generate revenue or some other external source though I would add this occurred not under faniwnership !! 

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7 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok interesting - How do you know-  I know Alan Heron ? 

Ive never mentioned his name - so how do you know that ? Its not widely known as I know him outwith PTFC  

Also I did ask Questions of TFE - still waiting on answers  - so thats a waste of time - others asked Questions to the Thistle Trust - no responses 

Your not involved in the TFE thing-but you know I know Alan Heron ? And why didnt I contact him

- its simple I think TFE /Thistle Trust  are taking this Club down a route the Fans have zero interest in - I think it could either end up with our demise- or have the Elected Board as a toothless Bowling Club Committee - with the real decisions taken elsewhere - I think they did this because its there View- not that its reflected in the Fans and this is imposed on us - like it or not  

I think there is a Danger of it repeating the Dundee Trust Disaster- and the Club including the Ground which is a tidy Assett being Sold off in the Cheap - and my instinct is that even at this moment people are looking with interest - Kilbowie ? 

So I have no interest in Communicating with Alan Heron- Goodwin or the Trust Members or the Cabal who are part of it-  but Post on here as just ordinary Fans - talking about people being negative - pushing there agenda but not declaring who they are

This Season we had a £750K Budget deficit which was the difference between Forecasted Revenue and Overhead plus we have a £250K Parachute Payment - the deficit was   made up due to unforecasted Transfer Fees in the May 2019 Budget  - thats £1MN on Non Repeated Income for Next Season   -WHERE IS IT COMING FROM ? 

Go on - explain ? your the Finance Expert - where we getting £1MN from  

They are real figures - Not my opinion stated at the AGM so where is the Cash coming from - TFE - Thistle Trust - those who pushed for this - the Anti Beattie Brigade on Twitter - where is the £1MN coming from ? as the ordinary Revenue Streams showed that was the shortfall 

Negative - sorry Amigo - Im just a realist - Whatever Happened to the Training  Ground ? 

So lets just see what happens shall we before making comments about people - lets see what they all deliver - talking is easy - delivering is the hard bit   

     

  

 

  

 

   

Couldn't have summed it up better myself.

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