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Partick Thistle vs Dundee


jagfox
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42 minutes ago, ARu-Strathbungo said:

I saw two middling teams playing middling football …. the main difference being they had better striking options. We didn't play good outballs from defence as our forward players were far to static, which led to multiple sideways movements by our defenders and then eventually the ball launched as a sort of 'hit and hope'  Not sure why Millar tries to run midfield, he doesn't have that ballskill. Cole played well in patches, Saunders had a fine game and Fox saved us a few times.

There is the making of a team within the players on the park, McCall just needs to buy a quality defending midfield player to play between Saunders and O'Ware, but we really badly need a quality striker.

Although I can understand the referees desire to keep the game flowing rather than stop / start, there was obvious yellow card incidents he ignored, McGowan was busy 'chewing the ears of the teddy bear' for much of the first half, and he needed a card for sure.

I can say that the team played better against Dundee than they did against Arbroath so progress, in small steps, is being made.

Agree better than Arbroath but not as good as second half against ICT last week. As i said in another post we are inconsistent like most teams in this league, with Dundee Utd the exception. I think we will be ok. I think Alloa and Arbroath will end up bottom 2. Once again another indication, (not that we need it) of just how far we have fallen in just 2 seasons. When we are depending on 2 part time teams to be worse than us.

Edited by Auld Jag
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2 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Two different ways of reading things but the end result the same. I take the first view and hope I'm correct. We'd be heading for a deeper mess if Cole (and Bannigan) are being over ponderous not reacting to the movement of the likes of Messrs Cardle, Miller & Harkins. Indeed tho' I like him and he can be a match winner, Cardle is too often a liability to pass to, as when he loses a ball he can wrong-foot half the team. The other two not that much better.

The best way to deal with deep defending is for attacking players to create more movement to draw out defenders. I reckon we'd be deluded in believing we have those sort of players. More correctly, with the three mentioned, nowadays.

Agree about the end result being the same. To my mind in the second half Cole had Williamson and Kakay available but chose to hang onto the ball giving more time for the Dundee defence to organise. He also seemed to drop deeper and want to play passes from just inside the Dundee half rather than get closer to the Dundee box so wasn't around the box to shoot as well as he did in the first half.

First half he was moving the ball quicker and we created a lot more because of it, he was also about 5/10 yards further forward so was able to get a good couple of shots on target.

I agree that the way to get round packed defences is quick hopefully one touch passes. Both Bannigan and Cole wanted to look for the defence splitting pass second half rather than just playing the quick pass to first available player. Bannigan got caught in possession at least once trying to look for the perfect option rather than taking the pass that was immediately available.

As much as Jones was getting well marked he was doing a reasonable job of running the channels but when he ran out of steam we needed to move Miller up front with Harkins. Instead Miller was everywhere but in the box.

To my mind Cardle has't been great for while now, I thought he should have been subbed instead of Kakay.

Also yesterday perhaps suggests tha McGinty is on the way out. Playing O'Ware in his position tells a story but if he's the only central defender on the bench and the manager wants to go with a left back rather than McGinty when Saunders gets injured its not looking good for him.

 

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I thought bringing on Robson rather than McGinty was just McCall trying to be positive at a time when Dundee were sitting back. Whatever the reason I agree it looks like McCall reckons Saunders/O'Ware is his preferred pairing just now. I sincerely hope that isn't the case come February and one of those two is first back-up to a new centreback. 

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4 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I thought bringing on Robson rather than McGinty was just McCall trying to be positive at a time when Dundee were sitting back. Whatever the reason I agree it looks like McCall reckons Saunders/O'Ware is his preferred pairing just now. I sincerely hope that isn't the case come February and one of those two is first back-up to a new centreback. 

Bit in bold - absolutely, If Brownlie is left sided I would hope we could get him to firhill in the January window.

Robson was pretty dreadful when he came on and must be on the list of those that should be leaving. It'll be a big list as it should contain McGinty, Hall, Williamson, Robson, Harkins and Mansell.

Wouldn't be adverse to letting Miller and Cardle go if other options are available. Slater probably needs to move on not because he's been awful but he's unlikely to dislodge Bannigan or Cole and with Docherty incoming he's probably 4th choice midfielder.

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10 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

Maybe Shea Gordon might have made a difference yesterday? Agree that Cardle had yet another poor game yesterday. Also I'm now beginning to feel that Kenny Miller is somehow unbalancing the team by playing far too deep at times. Big window for us.....

I doubt it, he's injured :hypocrite:;)

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1 hour ago, Auld Jag said:

Yet another window where we are looking to get rid of the previous manager's duds. This is costing a lot of money that could be better spent. Btw i know every manager doesn't get it right all the time, but we have had more than our fair share of mistakes over the last couple of seasons.

Yes, another window when we need new players to stave off relegation.  
 

Ive been wondering, if we had kept some of the players we released who are either playing at our level now or the same level(Nisbet,Brownlie Little, Ridgers etc etc) and signed some deemed not good enough(Hemmings,the guy who’s been Burton Albion’s POTY the last 2 years whose name escapes me), we wouldn’t have needed all these diddies signed by Archie and Caldwell.  Some of these players could have been club legends by now!! And how much money would we have made/saved?

McCall’s unenviable task is to clear up the shambles created by the 2 previous managers.  However it shouldn’t be too difficult to attract better players to Thistle compared to some of the diddy teams in our league.

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3 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I thought bringing on Robson rather than McGinty was just McCall trying to be positive at a time when Dundee were sitting back. Whatever the reason I agree it looks like McCall reckons Saunders/O'Ware is his preferred pairing just now. I sincerely hope that isn't the case come February and one of those two is first back-up to a new centreback. 

Robson did make one very good run, which could have produced a goal, and Penrice has always been comfortable at left centre back, so as you say this change may not be too harsh a judgment on McGinty. However, I agree that he could be on the way out. He has not built on that good spell at the end of last season when he became an effective ball carrier and also picked out a few killer passes.  Now all the centre backs have regressed to long ball as the safe option.

Would just add to the general praise of Saunders' defending (especially in the first half) yesterday.

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4 hours ago, laukat said:

Agree about the end result being the same. To my mind in the second half Cole had Williamson and Kakay available but chose to hang onto the ball giving more time for the Dundee defence to organise. He also seemed to drop deeper and want to play passes from just inside the Dundee half rather than get closer to the Dundee box so wasn't around the box to shoot as well as he did in the first half.

First half he was moving the ball quicker and we created a lot more because of it, he was also about 5/10 yards further forward so was able to get a good couple of shots on target.

I agree that the way to get round packed defences is quick hopefully one touch passes. Both Bannigan and Cole wanted to look for the defence splitting pass second half rather than just playing the quick pass to first available player. Bannigan got caught in possession at least once trying to look for the perfect option rather than taking the pass that was immediately available.

As much as Jones was getting well marked he was doing a reasonable job of running the channels but when he ran out of steam we needed to move Miller up front with Harkins. Instead Miller was everywhere but in the box.

To my mind Cardle has't been great for while now, I thought he should have been subbed instead of Kakay.

Also yesterday perhaps suggests tha McGinty is on the way out. Playing O'Ware in his position tells a story but if he's the only central defender on the bench and the manager wants to go with a left back rather than McGinty when Saunders gets injured its not looking good for him.

 

 A lot of good stuff in that post. Let me agree in particular with your surprise that Kakay was the one to make way for Zanatta.

One of our main problems in the second half (as compared to a reasonably positive showing in the first half)  was a lack of energy. As mentioned by a few posters,  this was causing Cole and Bannigan to sit further back.  Jones, Miller and Cardle all seemed to be declining in effectiveness and impact. It was not Kakay's best day, but he was still full of running and eagerness to influence the play. So I would have kept him on and withdrawn one of the aforementioned trio.

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2 hours ago, Weebaw1 said:

Yes, another window when we need new players to stave off relegation.  
 

Ive been wondering, if we had kept some of the players we released who are either playing at our level now or the same level(Nisbet,Brownlie Little, Ridgers etc etc) and signed some deemed not good enough(Hemmings,the guy who’s been Burton Albion’s POTY the last 2 years whose name escapes me), we wouldn’t have needed all these diddies signed by Archie and Caldwell.  Some of these players could have been club legends by now!! And how much money would we have made/saved?

McCall’s unenviable task is to clear up the shambles created by the 2 previous managers.  However it shouldn’t be too difficult to attract better players to Thistle compared to some of the diddy teams in our league.

To be fair the players you mention didn't do much while at Firhill. Including Lucas Akins if i am correct about the Burton player. Akins was on loan to us from Hamilton. Talking of Burton a certain Ryan Edwards is doing well with them at the moment.

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5 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

To be fair the players you mention didn't do much while at Firhill. Including Lucas Akins if i am correct about the Burton player. Akins was on loan to us from Hamilton. Talking of Burton a certain Ryan Edwards is doing well with them at the moment.

Perhaps they’ve been managed better since they left.

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Can’t quite believe anyone thinks that was a close game in terms of quality of sides.

The defence is rancid, but Williamson is the turd de resistance. We need at least a right back and a centre back.

The midfield is soft as brie and can’t play an incisive pass for toffee.

And our forward options? **** me. Almost makes you nostalgic for the days when Miles Storey was a staple fixture of the matchday XI.

The only positive on Saturday was that Fox stopped it being 4 or 5 going past him.

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3 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Can’t quite believe anyone thinks that was a close game in terms of quality of sides.

The defence is rancid, but Williamson is the turd de resistance. We need at least a right back and a centre back.

The midfield is soft as brie and can’t play an incisive pass for toffee.

And our forward options? **** me. Almost makes you nostalgic for the days when Miles Storey was a staple fixture of the matchday XI.

The only positive on Saturday was that Fox stopped it being 4 or 5 going past him.

That seems to be accurate. A few folk here saying that a draw would have been fair, but my bro who saw it all said that Dundee could have/should have won by a bigger margin.

We are rank. No better than the part-timers that we can't beat.

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On 12/22/2019 at 11:21 AM, jaggy said:

Rowbotham? :lol: you’re too far away from Scotland, he retired years ago. It was Bobby Madden

Not too far away from Scotland but yes too far away from Firhill.

Of course you are correct. It just that everytime I see Madden I think Rowbottom. Don't know why! 

I'll get treatment! 

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