Norgethistle Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 15 hours ago, sandy said: Maybe @jlsarmy. I just think that Beattie & Co were prepared to support the Club at a time when there were few other income streams. It wasn’t a quick return on their investment. I had hoped that the return of former board members plus a new manager (McCall) would give us hope. The move to a transitional Board seems to have unsettled everything IMO. Sadly we now look like relegation candidates; it will take the Jags back to the third tier where they were when I first started supporting them c1999. But as a Club, we deserve better. One day we will rise again. The removal of Jim Oliver as Honorary President as soon as the new board came in was wrong. This is a guy who invested millions into the club, built 2 stands, got us to top league for first time in a decade and also wrote of over a million to save the club during STJ whilst also then diluting his shareholding for creation of The Trust and was unceremoniously deleted from the history books. Oliver put more into the club and did more than any other director or investor. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: The removal of Jim Oliver as Honorary President as soon as the new board came in was wrong. This is a guy who invested millions into the club, built 2 stands, got us to top league for first time in a decade and also wrote of over a million to save the club during STJ whilst also then diluting his shareholding for creation of The Trust and was unceremoniously deleted from the history books. Oliver put more into the club and did more than any other director or investor. This. The actions of the interim board and the one fairly obvious background involvement of a certain ex chairman really concerns me. I cant see any progression in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Some of the posts on this thread are surreal ...you would think the board are actually playing in actual games ... the board sacked Caldwell ....almost unanimous approval The board appointed McCall ... almost unanimous approval the board allow McCall to seriously change the squad in January ... almost unanimous approval team not improving yep it’s the boards fault no it’s the manager and the players ffs!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, javeajag said: Some of the posts on this thread are surreal ...you would think the board are actually playing in actual games ... the board sacked Caldwell ....almost unanimous approval The board appointed McCall ... almost unanimous approval the board allow McCall to seriously change the squad in January ... almost unanimous approval team not improving yep it’s the boards fault no it’s the manager and the players ffs!! Just because a decision is popular does not mean it is either right or good. The board are there to make hard decisions that are right for the club, not necessarily what the fans want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: Just because a decision is popular does not mean it is either right or good. The board are there to make hard decisions that are right for the club, not necessarily what the fans want. Agreed. But of the three decisions mentioned what did the board do that wasnt right? I'll add into the mix Archie's sacking. So four decisions that the fan base ( unless I'm missing something ) concurred with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 12 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: Just because a decision is popular does not mean it is either right or good. The board are there to make hard decisions that are right for the club, not necessarily what the fans want. My point was the decision taken we’re seen to be the right ones and supported generally by the fans not that they were popular Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinhead Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 34 minutes ago, javeajag said: Some of the posts on this thread are surreal ...you would think the board are actually playing in actual games ... the board sacked Caldwell ....almost unanimous approval The board appointed McCall ... almost unanimous approval the board allow McCall to seriously change the squad in January ... almost unanimous approval team not improving yep it’s the boards fault no it’s the manager and the players ffs!! Two different boards though, the board sacked caldwell and appointed mccall is not the board mccall now works under. You can see the difference in the club since Lowe and her pals came back it is flat again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 It's flat because we're on a terrible run of results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARu-Strathbungo Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Norgethistle said: The removal of Jim Oliver as Honorary President as soon as the new board came in was wrong. This is a guy who invested millions into the club, built 2 stands, got us to top league for first time in a decade and also wrote of over a million to save the club during STJ whilst also then diluting his shareholding for creation of The Trust and was unceremoniously deleted from the history books. Oliver put more into the club and did more than any other director or investor. I agree with this. Although PTFC go into 2020 as a debt free club thanks solely to Colin Weir, for all that is an enviable position to be in, I still think our position is [or could be] precarious. If we had:- 1) a state of the art football ground, 2) a winning football team, 3) a financially healthy number of season ticket holders / supporters and 4) a chairman that the majority of the support could relate to [I know JO was not everyone's cup of tea, but he did appear to have the respect of most] my feeling is we would come out of the fan ownership discussion > agreement > transition in a good state of repair. It is unfortunate that at this time of massive change to the club we appear to have none of the 4. Would it not have been prudent to keep JO in his position for the transition period? The guys running the working group(s) need as much help as possible in their task and JO could have been of great assistance in showing them the ins and outs of running a football club like Thistle? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Pinhead said: Two different boards though, the board sacked caldwell and appointed mccall is not the board mccall now works under. You can see the difference in the club since Lowe and her pals came back it is flat again. Can you give some examples as I don’t see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 48 minutes ago, ARu-Strathbungo said: I agree with this. Although PTFC go into 2020 as a debt free club thanks solely to Colin Weir, for all that is an enviable position to be in, I still think our position is [or could be] precarious. If we had:- 1) a state of the art football ground, 2) a winning football team, 3) a financially healthy number of season ticket holders / supporters and 4) a chairman that the majority of the support could relate to [I know JO was not everyone's cup of tea, but he did appear to have the respect of most] my feeling is we would come out of the fan ownership discussion > agreement > transition in a good state of repair. It is unfortunate that at this time of massive change to the club we appear to have none of the 4. Would it not have been prudent to keep JO in his position for the transition period? The guys running the working group(s) need as much help as possible in their task and JO could have been of great assistance in showing them the ins and outs of running a football club like Thistle? When was the last time Jim Olver was involved in the club ? Isn’t he unwell ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, dl1971 said: Agreed. But of the three decisions mentioned what did the board do that wasnt right? I'll add into the mix Archie's sacking. So four decisions that the fan base ( unless I'm missing something ) concurred with. Appointing McCall was not right (and I said so from the start) 1. It was a lazy decision from a board that was needing good PR as at the time the Consortium buyout was falling on it's arse and they had lost the backing of Colin Weir. It was the appointment that the fans wanted, so they could get some quick brownie points. I'm not sure who else would have been available, but judging by the timescales, I don't believe that they looked very hard 2. By his own admission, the decision to come was a heart over head. It's great that McCalls heart is with The Jags, but we need a manager using his head to get out of the mess that we were in. It also calls to question his professional judgement when he had an Ayr team looking like promotion candidates at the time. 3. I don't know if there are any truths in the rumours around his previous departure (I've never seen them denied), but this was basicaly the same board that reappointed him, so they should know. If there is any truth to them, he should never have been allowed near Maryhill Rd. ever again. 4. Some may find it amusing, but as above, if there is any truth in the shoe defecation story then I would not want anyone who considers this acceptable conduct anywhere near my club. On Caldwell, I think that at times he was unlucky (transfer budget pulled, the collapse at Morton, the double sending off v Ayr) however I'm much rather have a lucky manager than a good manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: Appointing McCall was not right (and I said so from the start) 1. It was a lazy decision from a board that was needing good PR as at the time the Consortium buyout was falling on it's arse and they had lost the backing of Colin Weir. It was the appointment that the fans wanted, so they could get some quick brownie points. I'm not sure who else would have been available, but judging by the timescales, I don't believe that they looked very hard 2. By his own admission, the decision to come was a heart over head. It's great that McCalls heart is with The Jags, but we need a manager using his head to get out of the mess that we were in. It also calls to question his professional judgement when he had an Ayr team looking like promotion candidates at the time. 3. I don't know if there are any truths in the rumours around his previous departure (I've never seen them denied), but this was basicaly the same board that reappointed him, so they should know. If there is any truth to them, he should never have been allowed near Maryhill Rd. ever again. 4. Some may find it amusing, but as above, if there is any truth in the shoe defecation story then I would not want anyone who considers this acceptable conduct anywhere near my club. On Caldwell, I think that at times he was unlucky (transfer budget pulled, the collapse at Morton, the double sending off v Ayr) however I'm much rather have a lucky manager than a good manager. Caldwell unlucky? He spent more in both transfer windows than Archie was given after relegation yet he still wanted more. His transfer budget was not pulled, he spent it on Austin and Miller then wanted more. Caldwell has done the same at every club he failed at. Blown his budget then complained his budget wasn’t fulfilled or cut. There was a huge amount of spin being carefully put out there when the coup came. Buses being stopped, budget being cut, no due diligence being carried out. One of the working group has publicly stated on Twitter it was him that went to the press at the time, so who was pulling his strings? All were subsequently rubbished either at AGM or via other methods and our current board cancelled the bus to Morton but none of the same characters (many of who are on the working group) went vocal on Twitter or FB or ran to the press this time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARu-Strathbungo Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 16 minutes ago, javeajag said: When was the last time Jim Olver was involved in the club ? Isn’t he unwell ? I'm not in the know regarding JO's health. My point was more towards the working group having access to someone who has steered Thistle through a few years of troubled times, and also some good times. When you are looking for advice on how PTFC has been run in the past, I think JO would be able to list the successes and the failures better than most Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 32 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: Appointing McCall was not right (and I said so from the start) 1. It was a lazy decision from a board that was needing good PR as at the time the Consortium buyout was falling on it's arse and they had lost the backing of Colin Weir. It was the appointment that the fans wanted, so they could get some quick brownie points. I'm not sure who else would have been available, but judging by the timescales, I don't believe that they looked very hard 2. By his own admission, the decision to come was a heart over head. It's great that McCalls heart is with The Jags, but we need a manager using his head to get out of the mess that we were in. It also calls to question his professional judgement when he had an Ayr team looking like promotion candidates at the time. 3. I don't know if there are any truths in the rumours around his previous departure (I've never seen them denied), but this was basicaly the same board that reappointed him, so they should know. If there is any truth to them, he should never have been allowed near Maryhill Rd. ever again. 4. Some may find it amusing, but as above, if there is any truth in the shoe defecation story then I would not want anyone who considers this acceptable conduct anywhere near my club. On Caldwell, I think that at times he was unlucky (transfer budget pulled, the collapse at Morton, the double sending off v Ayr) however I'm much rather have a lucky manager than a good manager. Fair enough. You dont like McCall and clearly never have. Even if he does turn this around in due course I cant see you changing your opinion. As for the other candidates at the time they were few and far between. We shall see how it all unravels. Nb as for Caldwell I was pretty supportive of him, but his record ultimately was pretty dismal, and not just with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 54 minutes ago, dl1971 said: Fair enough. You dont like McCall and clearly never have. Even if he does turn this around in due course I cant see you changing your opinion. As for the other candidates at the time they were few and far between. We shall see how it all unravels. Nb as for Caldwell I was pretty supportive of him, but his record ultimately was pretty dismal, and not just with us. Don't get me wrong, I was not defending Caldwell. He had lost all credibility and had to go. I just think that we could have done better when replacing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinhead Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, javeajag said: Can you give some examples as I don’t see it You should change your name to Mr Examples, if it was raining in front of you, you would ask for an example of it raining! It is obvious to even Stevie Wonder the general malaise that was at the club in her first time around has returned with her and her cronies who are "not back at the club in any way shape or form of course". When Beattie came back in we started to look more professional and business like with tough decisions being made. Now we are back to the same shite as before, There is a general shadiness from the boardroom. I said when she came back she was back to finish us off and so far it seems to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 What a crock of sh*t. As I've said above, the prevailing mood of despondency surrounding the club has more to do with results on the pitch than anything else. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinhead Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 34 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said: What a crock of sh*t. As I've said above, the prevailing mood of despondency surrounding the club has more to do with results on the pitch than anything else. Aye i can smell the crock from your post - deluded! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Mmmhmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG1970 Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/dunfermline-athletic-at-home-re-arranged/ 7 games in 26 days including 4 at home v QoS, Dunfermline, Alloa and Morton Sink or swim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 21 hours ago, jlsarmy said: JJ , you’re an absolute man of many contradictions, I’m sure Paul Conway who you were championing at one point was a massive Partick Thistle fan . We were in need of David Beattie’s, Ian Dodd’s etc Investment at the time , but it’s totally disengenious to think they didn’t believe there wouldn’t be a return at some point , hence the planning applications which didn’t come to fruition . I’m sure David Beattie did due diligence before the takeover was completed and was quite happy with the business plan presented . We can only hope that was for the right reasons as you kept on about rather than a payday that took a bit longer than expected. Two Different things - Paul Conway it was a Business Venture which was clear from the outset - TFE & the Thistle Trust sold there takeover bid to Fans as the Club being run by long term Fans - well lets just see how that develops - as for the interim Board are you suggesting that we couldnt find suitably qualified Fans from within our Fan Base to make a Full Board ? There is a difference between Propco and Club Investment those who bought Shares in the Club expected zero return on them - when a round 2 of Funding was required they put cash into Propco As for due diligence - they were Ive no doubt given assurance by Colin Weir as to his intentions and how he would fund things Why are you going on about a "PayDay" Not one person made any profit from the Sale of Shares or Propco ? Its complete disgrace that you are attempting to imply on any level the motivation for these guys was Money - they put Hard earned cash into the Club - expected no return - second time they invested in Propco which was very high risk - they should be thanked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 4 hours ago, Dark Passenger said: It's flat because we're on a terrible run of results. My experience is that any organisation is highly influenced by who is Running it .......... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 You and Norge have played that record to death. Sooner or later the manager's most die-hard supporters/current board's fiercest critics have to admit that he's accountable for results on the pitch. This is the longest winless run under any single manager since the Premiership relegation season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said: You and Norge have played that record to death. Sooner or later the manager's most die-hard supporters/current board's fiercest critics have to admit that he's accountable for results on the pitch. This is the longest winless run under any single manager since the Premiership relegation season. Where have I stated the manager does not carry his share ? He does though have to rebuild a shambolic squad operating in a shambolic club (According to Kenny Miller). That comes from the top down. Ross we know clearly who’s camp your in, and the subsequent rewriting of history regarding Beattie, the scrubbing of the legacy of Oliver plus the coordinated PR campaign against Beattie etc (Bus, No due diligence, Cutting of budgets, Clubs a shambles) stories pushed towards the papers came from folk involved in PR and spin. That’s a fact and was stated by Barry M (Working Group) on Twitter before subsequently removing his post (Not before being screenshotted by many). Who is actually running the club? The board or 3BC’s as from what I’ve been told it’s the latter, and will continue past March. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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