Dark Passenger Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Ross we know clearly who’s camp your in, and the subsequent rewriting of history regarding Beattie, the scrubbing of the legacy of Oliver plus the coordinated PR campaign against Beattie etc (Bus, No due diligence, Cutting of budgets, Clubs a shambles) stories pushed towards the papers came from folk involved in PR and spin. That’s a fact and was stated by Barry M (Working Group) on Twitter before subsequently removing his post (Not before being screenshotted by many). What exactly are you accusing me of? Because if it's anything included in that post then you're way wide of the mark. And who's camp am I in exactly? Before you answer that, I'd refer you to my post on 23 November about a certain individual's toxic legacy. Edited February 25, 2020 by Dark Passenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Anyone on here who cant see the link between a poorly run club and results on the park need to reappraise their approach on the subject. Yes, the manager is solely responsible for team affairs, but when there is a toxic atmosphere in any occupation it permeates through to everyone. It is now patently obvious that the Dark Lady has returned and his running the club into the ground. Even if we survive we will struggle to progress whilst she is involved. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Two Different things - Paul Conway it was a Business Venture which was clear from the outset - TFE & the Thistle Trust sold there takeover bid to Fans as the Club being run by long term Fans - well lets just see how that develops - as for the interim Board are you suggesting that we couldnt find suitably qualified Fans from within our Fan Base to make a Full Board ? There is a difference between Propco and Club Investment those who bought Shares in the Club expected zero return on them - when a round 2 of Funding was required they put cash into Propco As for due diligence - they were Ive no doubt given assurance by Colin Weir as to his intentions and how he would fund things Why are you going on about a "PayDay" Not one person made any profit from the Sale of Shares or Propco ? Its complete disgrace that you are attempting to imply on any level the motivation for these guys was Money - they put Hard earned cash into the Club - expected no return - second time they invested in Propco which was very high risk - they should be thanked JJ , I’ve got a friend who had a 7% shareholding and you’re wrong he made a good return on his shareholding, the Propco deal is totally different and the people involved thought there was going to be a silver lining , hence the planning applications etc , it was as an investor extremely high risk but nevertheless they still had part of the ground as a Fixed Asset I’m grateful to David Beattie etc who helped us in our hour of need , though at the time was highly critical we were selling off part of our ground to achieve that , I’m sure if he wasn’t expecting any return he would have just gifted the money but no criticism from me as he is also a business man who got his investment back eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) The rot started under Beattie and continued under Jacqui Low. I'm pretty sure both of them are guilty of attempting to undermine each other via the media and members of the fan base. Their machinations have knocked the club of course to a degree. Anyone highlighting the failings of one without recognising the role of the other is guilty of a "rewriting of history", to quote Norge. Edited February 25, 2020 by Dark Passenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said: The rot started under Beattie and continued under Jacqui Low. I'm pretty sure both of them are guilty of attempting to undermine each other via the media and members of the fan base. Their machinations have knocked the club of course to a degree. Anyone highlighting the failings of one without recognising the role of the other is guilty of a "rewriting of history", to quote Norge. OK Now thats a Big Statement to make -how did "the rot start under David Beattie " thats complete nonsense - show me examples where David Beattie used the Media or Members of the Fan Base to undermine Jlo - plenty of people were highly critical of Jlo long before the Share Offer from Paul Conway came in -if you care to look at posts regards the New Training Ground etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 16 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: JJ , I’ve got a friend who had a 7% shareholding and you’re wrong he made a good return on his shareholding, the Propco deal is totally different and the people involved thought there was going to be a silver lining , hence the planning applications etc , it was as an investor extremely high risk but nevertheless they still had part of the ground as a Fixed Asset I’m grateful to David Beattie etc who helped us in our hour of need , though at the time was highly critical we were selling off part of our ground to achieve that , I’m sure if he wasn’t expecting any return he would have just gifted the money but no criticism from me as he is also a business man who got his investment back eventually. OK so Ronnie Gilfillan - Norman Springford - both who have 7% ( and various other Directors )lied when they said publicly - they were getting there initial Investment Back - No Profit ? Is that what your saying ? Propco came about ( and I was No Fan of it ) because there was no more people willing to hand the Club Money - the idea was that we did the same as the North Stand Area - Club got Money - Investors got a return - therefore it was as I said very High Risk and a Very Poor Investment - but the motivation was to support the Club David Beattie had already given us £250K for what were at the time worthless Shares - so had other Directors - we had run out iof High Nett Worth Fans willing to give us cash - Any Criticism of David Beattie or any of the former Directors is a rewriting of History Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Dark Passenger said: You and Norge have played that record to death. Sooner or later the manager's most die-hard supporters/current board's fiercest critics have to admit that he's accountable for results on the pitch. This is the longest winless run under any single manager since the Premiership relegation season. Managers are always responsible for Results - but dont you find it odd that he as gone from success at Ayr to failure at PTFC ? Its the same guy ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 46 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said: What exactly are you accusing me of? Because if it's anything included in that post then you're way wide of the mark. And who's camp am I in exactly? Before you answer that, I'd refer you to my post on 23 November about a certain individual's toxic legacy. I never accused you of anything other than you appear to be in one camp. You accused me of playing that record to death, not once have I stated McColl gets of Scott free, but I do believe the off field issues and lack of accountability filters down. You set the standards at the top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Managers are always responsible for Results - but dont you find it odd that he as gone from success at Ayr to failure at PTFC ? Its the same guy ? It wasn’t all success at Ayr, they got relegated under Ian McCall , this might be a work in progress under McCall to get to where we want to get to , possibly utilising the Academy more etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 24 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: OK Now thats a Big Statement to make -how did "the rot start under David Beattie " thats complete nonsense We were relegated while Beattie was Chairman. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 38 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: OK so Ronnie Gilfillan - Norman Springford - both who have 7% lied when they said publicly - they were getting there initial Investment Back - No Profit ? Neither of them said that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 35 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: I never accused you of anything other than you appear to be in one camp. Which is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingleo Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Low is most definitely involved. As has been pointed out she’s back to finish us completely. I wouldn’t trust her to serve tea and biscuits. Totally out of her depth. Shows what a joke of a club we are having any involvement with someone so bereft. Just rewatch some of her horrific interview things with Caldwell the clown. Just gives you the fear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Dark Passenger said: Neither of them said that. That is correct - it was a baffling rambling vague answer (at best) from Springford That said - they owned the shares, someone wanted to buy them, they are entitled to bank the money The only people who know their motivations either at time of purchasing the shares or at the time of the disposal are the individuals themselves Edited February 25, 2020 by jaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 9 hours ago, Pinhead said: You should change your name to Mr Examples, if it was raining in front of you, you would ask for an example of it raining! It is obvious to even Stevie Wonder the general malaise that was at the club in her first time around has returned with her and her cronies who are "not back at the club in any way shape or form of course". When Beattie came back in we started to look more professional and business like with tough decisions being made. Now we are back to the same shite as before, There is a general shadiness from the boardroom. I said when she came back she was back to finish us off and so far it seems to be the case. Ok no examples just a opinion based on your dislike of one female .....football fans don’t like facts as you are proving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 7 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: My experience is that any organisation is highly influenced by who is Running it .......... So if we had David Beattie running the club we would never get relegated .....ludicrous all a board can do us appoint a manager , maximize the available resources and let him get in with it which ours have done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 6 hours ago, Garscube Road End said: Anyone on here who cant see the link between a poorly run club and results on the park need to reappraise their approach on the subject. Yes, the manager is solely responsible for team affairs, but when there is a toxic atmosphere in any occupation it permeates through to everyone. It is now patently obvious that the Dark Lady has returned and his running the club into the ground. Even if we survive we will struggle to progress whilst she is involved. What does that even mean ? Who has done what ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 6 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: OK Now thats a Big Statement to make -how did "the rot start under David Beattie " thats complete nonsense - show me examples where David Beattie used the Media or Members of the Fan Base to undermine Jlo - plenty of people were highly critical of Jlo long before the Share Offer from Paul Conway came in -if you care to look at posts regards the New Training Ground etc etc Clearly it did .....we got relegated ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 6 hours ago, Norgethistle said: I never accused you of anything other than you appear to be in one camp. You accused me of playing that record to death, not once have I stated McColl gets of Scott free, but I do believe the off field issues and lack of accountability filters down. You set the standards at the top Ok what standards have dropped ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 38 minutes ago, jaf said: That is correct - it was a baffling rambling vague answer (at best) from Springford That said - they owned the shares, someone wanted to buy them, they are entitled to bank the money The only people who know their motivations either at time of purchasing the shares or at the time of the disposal are the individuals themselves Don’t think anyone is condemning any of the shareholders for making some profit for selling their shares . Think it’s fair to say you wouldn’t buy shares in PTFC as a money making exercise and for some of the shareholders it definitely was an unexpected windfall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 51 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Don’t think anyone is condemning any of the shareholders for making some profit for selling their shares . Think it’s fair to say you wouldn’t buy shares in PTFC as a money making exercise and for some of the shareholders it definitely was an unexpected windfall. Yes I agree .....it was more the fact that they were willing to sell to Conway that was the issue and that questioned their motivation to be about cash rather than the best interests of the club 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, javeajag said: Clearly it did .....we got relegated ! But under Beattie we were in the top flight and recovered our financial position. I felt safer with him in charge than I do now with a transitional Board and the vague promise of fan ownership. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, sandy said: But under Beattie we were in the top flight and recovered our financial position. I felt safer with him in charge than I do now with a transitional Board and the vague promise of fan ownership. We got relegated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 19 minutes ago, javeajag said: We got relegated Yes, you made that point earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 1 minute ago, sandy said: Yes, you made that point earlier. Well I would rather have a poor board and not get relegated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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