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Thistle v Pars 22.02.20


sb1876
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No match thread as yet so here goes.

With another week of training and the team getting used to how each other play, hopefully the squad can start producing performances and results (a scrappy win would do!).

Pars have been a bogey team this year so far but don't actually look that great a side. 3-1 Thistle.

 

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From accounts of Sneddon's good performance against Clyde in the Glasgow Cup, it must surely mean that he gets the nod ahead of Fox.  Even if McCall thinks that Sneddon is not significantly better than Fox (presumably the case) persisting with Fox sends the wrong message to other players - mediocre performances are not punished!

McCall must also change the central defence to give some confidence to the midfield, and allow some pace to be encouraged and some risks to be taken to get behind their full backs.  Not surprisingly, the team lacks confidence, and I'm sure this stems from the poor goalkeeping and central defending.  Sorting that has to be the number one priority for McCall.

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20 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

1-0 Thistle if Sneddon is in goals

1-2 if it’s Fox in goals, with both goals coming from corners

What makes you think Sneddon will come off his line for corners? He’s as bad as Fox for being rooted to the goal-line but at least he has time to learn

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22 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

1-0 Thistle if Sneddon is in goals

1-2 if it’s Fox in goals, with both goals coming from corners

I admire your optimism that our defensive woes are fixed simply by replacing a keeper which won this league last year (especially with another keeper with a similar weakness). I'm not so sure myself.

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Just to defend Scott Fox a bit …. his instinctive saves in open play can be excellent, so as a 'shot stopper' he can and does play well. The problem is those set-piece plays that we have witnessed repetitively  since the last clean-sheet [CQ Nomads, four months ago] I think the fault their must be shared by Kenny Arthur, Alan Archibald and Scott Fox. They must be practicing those set play variations over and over, but with so far little effect.

When I saw the dross Stevie Crawford was signing last June and July, I had the thought that Dunfermline would be a relegation candidates for this season …. so the results to date show that I know F.A. about football!!!!!

Surely their good luck and our bad luck has to turn?   I would love to see us score 2 and concede none, but that is a big ask.

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I understand the feelings about Fox not coming off his line and in fact have commented, critically, about this aspect of his game. 

I think though we have to put this into the context of the modern thinking about goalkeeping. 

The 'old' days when the prevailing thinking was that  a keeper should come for every cross ball and hold every  ball crosses and when saving shots are gone. 

Set pieces unless crosses are right onto the goal line are the responsibility of the defence. The keepers role today is simply to stop the ball crossing the goal line by any means. If a ball breaks from a keeper its up to the defence to clear. The keepe's other main responsibility is to be a sweeper, good with his feet and to distribute the ball thereby initiating - playing from the back. 

In summary, shot stopping and sweeping/distributing - that's it! 

Joe Hart, remember him, was the last of a line of traditional keepers, and he has been struggling to get a game at a PL or Championship Club. 

It wouldn't surprise me if IMC plays Fox, not due to any perceived weaknesses Sneddon may have, but because he considers Fox to be one of the stronger players in the team! 

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Thats us now got 3 games coming up on television    Ayr  20 March away,   I.C.T.  18 April  home ,and now Dunfermline 25 April.away........With our record of not winning in the league on television    are we not up to something like 25 games without a win ? ,unless there is a massive change to this  thats  a possible 9 points we are not going to get...

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7 hours ago, jaggy said:

What makes you think Sneddon will come off his line for corners? He’s as bad as Fox for being rooted to the goal-line but at least he has time to learn

There’s being on your line and being behind it in Foxes case.

Sneddon seems to also talk / shout more at his defense which could help position them better.

Currently Fox (like others) isn’t playing well, and I think a change will help.

 

A bigger risk may be the park with all the rain

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6 hours ago, exiledjag said:

I understand the feelings about Fox not coming off his line and in fact have commented, critically, about this aspect of his game. 

I think though we have to put this into the context of the modern thinking about goalkeeping. 

The 'old' days when the prevailing thinking was that  a keeper should come for every cross ball and hold every  ball crosses and when saving shots are gone. 

Set pieces unless crosses are right onto the goal line are the responsibility of the defence. The keepers role today is simply to stop the ball crossing the goal line by any means. If a ball breaks from a keeper its up to the defence to clear. The keepe's other main responsibility is to be a sweeper, good with his feet and to distribute the ball thereby initiating - playing from the back. 

In summary, shot stopping and sweeping/distributing - that's it! 

Joe Hart, remember him, was the last of a line of traditional keepers, and he has been struggling to get a game at a PL or Championship Club. 

It wouldn't surprise me if IMC plays Fox, not due to any perceived weaknesses Sneddon may have, but because he considers Fox to be one of the stronger players in the team! 

One of Scotland’s best ever keepers Andy Gorman very rarely came for a cross ball but he had Centre Halves who knew that and attacked the ball at corner kicks and cross balls.

Surely we should be set up knowing that Fox doesn’t come for cross balls and either Saunders or O’ware should be attacking the crosses .

 

 

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20 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

One of Scotland’s best ever keepers Andy Gorman very rarely came for a cross ball but he had Centre Halves who knew that and attacked the ball at corner kicks and cross balls.

Surely we should be set up knowing that Fox doesn’t come for cross balls and either Saunders or O’ware should be attacking the crosses .

 

 

Completely agree, our defenders seem to stand and wait for the ball!

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Mayo coming in to the side would add some height to the team. Fox has had criticism over the last few weeks for aspects of his game. But he is playing in front of a sieve. Remember Sneddon hasn't kept a clean sheet in the league this season either.

We've no height available at full back and little else in the squad apart from centre half and BFG up front.

Coupled with a lack of pace the team is lacking on a physical attribute level too, imo.

We'll do well to win this. How we manage that? I've no idea. I'm sure the game plan will involve the  backline shelling long balls up to Brian Graham.

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If Cardle and Rudden are out I wonder if McCall will be tempted to go for a 3-5-2 along the following lines?

Fox

O'Conner - Brownlie - O'Ware - Mayo - Penrice

Cole-MacKinnon-Bannigan

Zannata - Graham

We don't really have any wide midfielders as Cardle and Zannata are really wingers so pushing the fullbacks on to provide width might make more sense. With 3 centrebacks it would perhaps make it easier to nominate one to mark Nesbit as he seems to be Dunfermline's only reliable goal threat.

Dunfermline will be a threat at set pieces with both of their centrebacks (Devine and Ashcroft) scoring recently at QOS. However I would fancy Graham and Zanatta to force Devine into making a mistake or two.

 

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4 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

One of Scotland’s best ever keepers Andy Gorman very rarely came for a cross ball but he had Centre Halves who knew that and attacked the ball at corner kicks and cross balls.

Surely we should be set up knowing that Fox doesn’t come for cross balls and either Saunders or O’ware should be attacking the crosses .

 

 

Easer said than done. Centre back that can do this are now worth their weight in gold.

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8 minutes ago, JeanieD said:

As others have posted above perhaps postponement due to deluge might not be the worst outcome for this weekend.

Sorry disagree. Dunfermline have not played for 3 weeks i think. I know our record against Dunfermline this season is very poor,  but this Saturday is a winnable game.We don't have a game next week. Our next game will be QOS at home again a winnable game. If we can get 2 home wins in a row, i would hope that would kick start our season and see us climbing the table. Of course 2 defeats and it will be the opposite effect. Lets get the games played and see where we end up.

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2 hours ago, jagfox said:
We'll do well to win this. How we manage that? I've no idea. I'm sure the game plan will involve the  backline shelling long balls up to Brian Graham.

I've never met or played (amateur) with any player who wants long balls punted up to them, no matter how good they are,! It's not something that works particularly well, Graham is a really good player and superb for Thistle, but he's much more than a target man.  (I'm not saying that's your plan Jagfox, just that McCall should know more than you or I about this and it should be plan Z!)

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5 hours ago, sb1876 said:

I've never met or played (amateur) with any player who wants long balls punted up to them, no matter how good they are,! It's not something that works particularly well, Graham is a really good player and superb for Thistle, but he's much more than a target man.  (I'm not saying that's your plan Jagfox, just that McCall should know more than you or I about this and it should be plan Z!)

Here's hoping you're right!

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5 hours ago, sb1876 said:

I've never met or played (amateur) with any player who wants long balls punted up to them, no matter how good they are,! It's not something that works particularly well, Graham is a really good player and superb for Thistle, but he's much more than a target man.  (I'm not saying that's your plan Jagfox, just that McCall should know more than you or I about this and it should be plan Z!)

I seem to remember us signing strikers who had scored plenty of goals (headers) against us throughout their careers, and who we then signed in the hope that if we started punting long balls to them, they would continue to score, this time for us. They didn't. I can think of Jim Hamilton, Pat Keogh, and yon Irish guy whose name escapes me; he was rank, but then the whole team was rank.

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1 hour ago, Jaggernaut said:

I seem to remember us signing strikers who had scored plenty of goals (headers) against us throughout their careers, and who we then signed in the hope that if we started punting long balls to them, they would continue to score, this time for us. They didn't. I can think of Jim Hamilton, Pat Keogh, and yon Irish guy whose name escapes me; he was rank, but then the whole team was rank.

Was it Paul Keegan?  Rank indeed.

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