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jagfox

New Chairman announced...

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1 hour ago, eljaggo said:

We all want these things, but the third sentence assumes that the chairman has no influence or effect on the performance of the Club/team.

We’re bottom of the league just now with the regime we had without anyone being over critical of David Beattie and Co , the jury is out regarding what influence a chairman can have over the performance on the park unless budgets are cut .

The influence off the park is different and we’ll see where that takes us .

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9 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Think I was in agreement with you re the training ground a couple of years , at our level there is not any need for it as it was another expense we couldn’t afford and the way it’s going their won’t be any need for it if we hit the 3rd level of Scottish Football .

The response was that Javea Jag stated that it was David Beatties fault we have no training ground - as the money was used to buy him out 

this is not true - The Training Ground was announced as being part of the takeover deal and the takeover costs seperate from it / same with Propco - the link to Training Ground Money was announced a Month later 

if CW changed his mind - fair enough BUT it was a change from what was stated at the time of takeover 

Now the Training Ground idea is nonsesical always has been - but it was stated as at time of takeover 

 

 

Edited by Jordanhill Jag

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27 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

We’re bottom of the league just now with the regime we had without anyone being over critical of David Beattie and Co , the jury is out regarding what influence a chairman can have over the performance on the park unless budgets are cut .

The influence off the park is different and we’ll see where that takes us .

A well run Club off the park tends to reflect what happens on it - a United Club as we seen during the promotion Season with Board - One Thistle - Fans - Players all working as a unit means success 

So it starts at the top 

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21 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The response was that Javea Jag stated that it was David Beatties fault we have no training ground - as the money was used to buy him out 

this is not true - The Training Ground was announced as being part of the takeover deal and the takeover costs seperate from it / same with Propco - the link to Training Ground Money was announced a Month later 

if CW changed his mind - fair enough BUT it was a change from what was stated at the time of takeover 

Now the Training Ground idea is nonsesical always has been - but it was stated as at time of takeover 

 

 

As we know you are not the most flexible thinker here....so yes it was announced at the time of the takeover but that doesn’t mean it was cancelled as there were insufficient funds left from buying out all your mates and propco for the initial plan hence the look at other options 

if our shareholders and propco had stayed where they were we would have a training ground 

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20 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

A well run Club off the park tends to reflect what happens on it - a United Club as we seen during the promotion Season with Board - One Thistle - Fans - Players all working as a unit means success 

So it starts at the top 

So hearts and Hamilton are badly run ......no evidence for this anywhere in the whole of world football 

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5 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

A well run Club off the park tends to reflect what happens on it - a United Club as we seen during the promotion Season with Board - One Thistle - Fans - Players all working as a unit means success 

So it starts at the top 

Lots of examples where that isn’t the case , one at the other end of the spectrum was Romanov at Hearts , most of the players were struggling to get paid but they still went on and won the Scottish Cup beating Hibs 5 - 1 

We can’t make that an excuse if we get relegated this year , totally down to McCall and the players.

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6 hours ago, javeajag said:

So hearts and Hamilton are badly run ......no evidence for this anywhere in the whole of world football 

Not exactly sure what you are getting at here.

Hearts have been in turmoil all season, from not sacking Levein as manager because he was a Director. Then the way they allowed their new manager to treat the club captain. It’s kind of like the way Caldwell was allowed to treat Dolan.

Hamilton are performing the way you would expect from a club like them.  I expect Hamilton to be back in the Championship in the next season or two if not this, as I am sure Hamilton fans do too.

Edited by Lenziejag

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32 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Not exactly sure what you are getting at here.

Hearts have been in turmoil all season, from not sacking Levein as manager because he was a Director. Then the way they allowed their new manager to treat the club captain. It’s kind of like the way Caldwell was allowed to treat Dolan.

Hamilton are performing the way you would expect from a club like them.  I expect Hamilton to be back in the Championship in the next season or two if not this, as I am sure Hamilton fans do too.

The point being made is that a well run club will somehow perform better than than one that isn’t and that business people running football clubs again somehow makes them more successful .....no evidence anywhere for those suggestions .....Hamilton the former and hearts the latter 

Edited by javeajag

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

Lots of examples where that isn’t the case , one at the other end of the spectrum was Romanov at Hearts , most of the players were struggling to get paid but they still went on and won the Scottish Cup beating Hibs 5 - 1 

We can’t make that an excuse if we get relegated this year , totally down to McCall and the players.

Exactly ......Hamilton. Rey well run apparently may well get relegated 

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1 hour ago, javeajag said:

Exactly ......Hamilton. Rey well run apparently may well get relegated 

Can't fully go along with your argument here. Hamilton may be well run, and if they get relegated it will be fair enough as they are a small club and it will not reflect too badly. Much as most people would say that we were a well run club when we got relegated from the Premier.

But we are now in our second relegation crisis under our third manager in the Championship. Difficult to say how the boardroom affects playing performance (it doesn't appear to be for lack if money) but to me it does indicate a malaise that you couldn't apply to Hamilton Accies.

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19 minutes ago, allyo said:

Can't fully go along with your argument here. Hamilton may be well run, and if they get relegated it will be fair enough as they are a small club and it will not reflect too badly. Much as most people would say that we were a well run club when we got relegated from the Premier.

But we are now in our second relegation crisis under our third manager in the Championship. Difficult to say how the boardroom affects playing performance (it doesn't appear to be for lack if money) but to me it does indicate a malaise that you couldn't apply to Hamilton Accies.

3 rd relegation crisis , took us to the last game last year to get out of that mess as well , things that should have been addressed over the last 3 years with 3 different managers , lack of physicality in the team , no pace in the team, lack of goalscoring threat , think supporters would be patient if they could see the team was a work in progress and some sort of improvement.

 

Don’t see that at all just now 

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9 hours ago, javeajag said:

As we know you are not the most flexible thinker here....so yes it was announced at the time of the takeover but that doesn’t mean it was cancelled as there were insufficient funds left from buying out all your mates and propco for the initial plan hence the look at other options 

if our shareholders and propco had stayed where they were we would have a training ground 

It's interesting to see that your words are also being analysed on the Pie and Bovril site. 

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3 hours ago, javeajag said:

The point being made is that a well run club will somehow perform better than than one that isn’t and that business people running football clubs again somehow makes them more successful .....no evidence anywhere for those suggestions .....Hamilton the former and hearts the latter 

There is no evidence that well-run clubs perform better than badly-run clubs? You are absolutely at it. 

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15 hours ago, Flycatcher said:

Are we not getting away from the point.

To a lot of fans (myself included) are worried 

Here we have a chairman who has causing fans to boycott/walk away from the club.

Even if its temporary.  .  . Still worring 

Let me be clear . . , 

I was no fan of JL last tenure as chairman. The communication to us fans was a disgrace.

Add to that the slide down the table and the Appointment of GC.

It all doesn’t fill me with hope now.

There is murmurs from fans (here, social  media and to me) of non attendance which we all have a choice to do....

I just hope that Unhappy fans who do attend make it clear that they are angry at this appointment  and not at the management.

A management who need time regardless of which league we are in........

Edited by Flycatcher

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22 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said:

There is no evidence that well-run clubs perform better than badly-run clubs? You are absolutely at it. 

You can’t define it as simply as that , two examples of that are Man City and Chelsea , who you would have thought  are run properly but they’ve been found out in the Financial Fair Play rules when they’ve paid out millions in Wages but are backed by two wealthy backers who cover the losses.

Same goes in Scotland with Sevco surviving on soft loans from their directors to survive.

Success on the park isn’t always equated with well run clubs

 

Edited by jlsarmy

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1 hour ago, ARu-Strathbungo said:

It's interesting to see that your words are also being analysed on the Pie and Bovril site. 

Why ( p and b not something I look at )

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47 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said:

There is no evidence that well-run clubs perform better than badly-run clubs? You are absolutely at it. 

Great....point me to the evidence and I’ll change my view ......can’t say fairer than that 

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On 2/29/2020 at 5:05 AM, Woodstock Jag said:

I have a very simple question actually.

Which legal person or persons currently owns the Bing and the land on which the Main Stand sits: Partick Thistle Football Club Ltd? Three Black Cats? Or someone/something else?

We were assured that this transfer would happen within a matter of days of TBC having acquired those fixed assets from Firhill Developments Limited.

Did that happen?

I cannot claim to be an expert on all the boardroom comings and goings, and my focus is on backing the team in the vital relegation scrap with Queen of the South on Tuesday. However, I can confirm the current position regarding registered title to the various parts of Firhill Stadium and related ground as disclosed on the Land Register of Scotland. This is all publicly available through the Registers of Scotland ScotLIS (Scottish Land and Information Service).

Title Number GLA205256 relates to the Main Stand and the Bing as well as the steep section of South Drive. Title is registered as from 2nd December 2019 in the name of Three Black Cats Limited (Company Number SC591721), who paid a price of £1956000 and took entry on 20th November 2019. There is no pending application to register any further transfer of title. Although there is a limit to what can be ascertained regarding the title history (the Title Sheet tells you the title position now, and you do not see the bundle of consecutive deeds that led to the current position), it would appear that what Three Black Cats Limited acquired in 2019 was the same precisely as Firhill Developments Limited acquired from Partick Thistle Football Club Limited in 2009.

Title to the remaining land at Firhill Stadium, 80 Firhill Road, Glasgow G20 7AL  (ie the pitch, John Lambie Stand and Jackie Husband Stand (and continuation of South Drive/parking area behind) is registered under Title Number GLA162711 in name of Partick Thistle Football Club Limited (Company Number SC005417). The title was registered voluntarily (ie not consequent on a transfer of title) with entry on 8th June 2002.

Some points of historical interest:

1) Part of the land is included in the entry on the Schedule of Monuments  for the Forth and Clyde Canal. There is a pending similar application for Scott Fox standing on his goal line at corners (sorry, I made that last bit up).

2) By a deed recorded on 12th December 1916, Caledonian Railway Company required  Partick Thistle Football Club Limited (and I paraphrase) "for so long as the ground is used for football or other athletic purposes, to suitably fence off the ground from [land retained by the Railway Company] in such way and manner as will prevent all persons from being able to view the playing pitch from [the retained land], including the canal bank and towing path".

3) Can any of the history buffs explain why a railway company owned land adjacent to a canal (London Midland and Scottish Railway Company are also mentioned in relation to the title in 1933)?  The 1916 deed mentioned above is the first one referred to for title conditions. My understanding is that Thistle began playing at Firhill in 1909. Is it the case then that Thistle did not own Firhill for the first 7 years they played there (either leasing or paying up a price by instalments)? It is possible that there could have been an earlier acquisition recorded by a deed which did not contain any permanent title conditions. That would be unusual, so historical explanation welcomed.

 

 

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ptg  ref point 3

my grandfather told me that firhill was built on an old quarry

horse and carts were used to transport stone etc to infill the quarry

he also told me that a horse and cart was  backed up too far and unfortunately fell into the quarry, the horse was not recovered  :shok:

maybe originally the quarry stone was used by the railway companies to ballast railway track ?

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49 minutes ago, partickthedog said:

who paid a price of £1956000

So propco put in £1m in 2009 and took out £2m in 2019 

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6 minutes ago, watties wallies said:

ptg  ref point 3

my grandfather told me that firhill was built on an old quarry

horse and carts were used to transport stone etc to infill the quarry

he also told me that a horse and cart was  backed up too far and unfortunately fell into the quarry, the horse was not recovered  :shok:

maybe originally the quarry stone was used by the railway companies to ballast railway track ?

The first carthorses at Firhill, but definitley not the last.  

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12 minutes ago, javeajag said:

So propco put in £1m in 2009 and took out £2m in 2019 

As you and I both said , David Beattie and Co made substantial profits both from Propco and the shares they sold , the rhetoric doing it for the best interests of the Club and relying on David Beattie ‘s judgement is nonsense .

The sale of the Club was a business deal , pure and simple and it shouldn’t be dressed up any other way .

 

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