What if they shut down the season?

[javeajag]

2 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Maybe, but then manufacturing needs to ramped up so that there is enough for everyone on the planet

I said manufacturing will be the issue 

[Jag36]

6 minutes ago, jags on tour said:

Can’t help but feel we’ll be the most hated club after all this happens for prolonging the season instead of just saying ‘Aye just relegate us, we don’t mind.’  I think we are right to do what we are doing but think it’s just delaying the inevitable, they will never null and void the season, realistically the season won’t get finished and there will be another vote later to end the season which will get accepted as other clubs chairmans are too scared to upset the big teams. I can’t see reconstruction happening either.

Theres another bigger point now though about fairness transparency and confidence in the SPFL as an organisation. If it emerges that there were underhand dealings going on and the vote was 'fixed' then just like any governance or organisation how can there be any confidence in them as a fit and proper organisation in their current form to be in charge of Scottish Football. 

[sandy]

3 minutes ago, javeajag said:

I said manufacturing will be the issue 

So there is unlikely to be a fully tested vaccine ready for public rollout by Sept 2020. 

[exiledjag]

11 minutes ago, jags on tour said:

Can’t help but feel we’ll be the most hated club after all this happens for prolonging the season instead of just saying ‘Aye just relegate us, we don’t mind.’  I think we are right to do what we are doing but think it’s just delaying the inevitable, they will never null and void the season, realistically the season won’t get finished and there will be another vote later to end the season which will get accepted as other clubs chairmans are too scared to upset the big teams. I can’t see reconstruction happening either.

Rqeconstucgion won't happen and it was never going to happen Like the promise of early payout of prize money 'meaningful' discussion about reconstruction was just a form of coercion or if you prefer carrot, to secure the delivery of the SPFL proposal. 

As far as relegation is concerned I would not wish it but if after all games had been played and we were bottom I could accept it. I can't though accept the present position. 

. 

[javeajag]

2 minutes ago, sandy said:

So there is unlikely to be a fully tested vaccine ready for public rollout by Sept 2020. 

Don’t know .... do you ? 

[laukat]

33 minutes ago, Emsca said:

Whicc is what I keep coming back to. Why were the SPFL so desperate to get the Leagues wound up?j

Its the key question in all this. Why and why now?

Why? I presume they want it marked as completed and a winner declared for 2 main reasons. First of all to prevent any sponsor or TV company for wanting their money back and secondly to say to UEFA that Scottish results stand so we expect our second champions league spot.

Why now? I suspect its partly to try and force UEFA's hand but mainly to declare final positions before a club goes into administration, gets hit by a points deduction that would effect their final league position  and ultimatley their particpation in european competition.

The SPFL don't care about anyone else other than the old firm and the tv deal. Celtic aren't in financial trouble and will be in the champions league no matter what. The TV deal hinges on 4 games between the ugly sisters so the only logical conclusion is its something to do with Sevco

They could well go into administration which would mean a 15 point deduction which still leaves them 5 points ahead of Motherwell for 2nd place but probably unable to take up a european place due to financial fair play. They would be unlikely to get out of administration without champions league football so it puts the TV deal at risk. If Uefa started poking about financial fair play in regards to Sevco and how they've managed to meet these it could open up a can of worms.

Sevco might declare in public that this is terrible to appease their fans but in private they'll be all for this. Stewart Robertson from Sevco sits on the SPFL board so how on earth does this proposal get through there without him not being ok with it?

[Jag36]

3 minutes ago, laukat said:

Its the key question in all this. Why and why now?

Why? I presume they want it marked as completed and a winner declared for 2 main reasons. First of all to prevent any sponsor or TV company for wanting their money back and secondly to say to UEFA that Scottish results stand so we expect our second champions league spot.

Why now? I suspect its partly to try and force UEFA's hand but mainly to declare final positions before a club goes into administration, gets hit by a points deduction that would effect their final league position  and ultimatley their particpation in european competition.

The SPFL don't care about anyone else other than the old firm and the tv deal. Celtic aren't in financial trouble and will be in the champions league no matter what. The TV deal hinges on 4 games between the ugly sisters so the only logical conclusion is its something to do with Sevco

They could well go into administration which would mean a 15 point deduction which still leaves them 5 points ahead of Motherwell for 2nd place but probably unable to take up a european place due to financial fair play. They would be unlikely to get out of administration without champions league football so it puts the TV deal at risk. If Uefa started poking about financial fair play in regards to Sevco and how they've managed to meet these it could open up a can of worms.

Sevco might declare in public that this is terrible to appease their fans but in private they'll be all for this. Stewart Robertson from Sevco sits on the SPFL board so how on earth does this proposal get through there without him not being ok with it?

Have Uefa insisted on leagues finishing to finalise champions league places? Not from what i've heard.

And why would any team have to go into administation if loans are available without the league needing to be finalised at the moment.

Think the answer probably lies closer to home and with the powerbrockers in Scottish football. Celtic want 9 in a row- might just be as simple as that. Rangers influence in Scottish football was diluted years ago

 

[javeajag]

Oxford update for those interested 

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-04-14/coronavirus-vaccine-university-oxford-how-long-tom-clarke/

[Peaty FC]

32 minutes ago, sandbank boy said:

Knowing us, we’ll win the legal battle, the season will be played to a finish ( at some stage) and then we’ll be relegated!

That's fine. I can live with that.  That's sporting even though we have performed abysmally. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Peaty FC

[Colognejag]

14 minutes ago, laukat said:

Its the key question in all this. Why and why now?

Why? I presume they want it marked as completed and a winner declared for 2 main reasons. First of all to prevent any sponsor or TV company for wanting their money back and secondly to say to UEFA that Scottish results stand so we expect our second champions league spot.

Why now? I suspect its partly to try and force UEFA's hand but mainly to declare final positions before a club goes into administration, gets hit by a points deduction that would effect their final league position  and ultimatley their particpation in european competition.

The SPFL don't care about anyone else other than the old firm and the tv deal. Celtic aren't in financial trouble and will be in the champions league no matter what. The TV deal hinges on 4 games between the ugly sisters so the only logical conclusion is its something to do with Sevco

They could well go into administration which would mean a 15 point deduction which still leaves them 5 points ahead of Motherwell for 2nd place but probably unable to take up a european place due to financial fair play. They would be unlikely to get out of administration without champions league football so it puts the TV deal at risk. If Uefa started poking about financial fair play in regards to Sevco and how they've managed to meet these it could open up a can of worms.

Sevco might declare in public that this is terrible to appease their fans but in private they'll be all for this. Stewart Robertson from Sevco sits on the SPFL board so how on earth does this proposal get through there without him not being ok with it?

Ludicrous. It's all about Celtic. Rangers do not want them to be crowned champions, that is their motive.

[Barney Rubble]

2 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Business somehow needs to get back to normal which will mean extended social distancing in the workplace, unfortunately football (Whilst a business) will need to be low down on that list. Germany & England are only thinking about this and Bundesliga have confirmed nothing at the moment they are waiting on the situation changing. The difference with football than other businesses is the customer base, they won't be content with "Shopping from home" via a live stream, they will turn up to peak through gates, welcome team buses etc.  Most businesses will need to have a distance between employees so I'm not sure how you do that with footballers, think of a crowded 6 yard box at a corner for example.

I don't believe we will have any idea when a season can restart till June.

For the last three years Thistle have been extremely adept at social distancing in those situations. Perhaps they could be held up as an example by UEFA?

 

(Sorry Norge - it was an open goal......)

[javeajag]

Dundee issue statement that says ....nothing 

[javeajag]

[AlgarveJag]

so from reading the legal opinion obtained by the club I read 3 possible ways forward.

1. The SPFL (having announced the result which is just my interpretation) accept that either Dundee voted NO or by not voting don't support the proposal and so it fails - end of story.  If SPFL don't accept that fact then PTFC can request the courts enforce that right under company law by declaring their entitlement to a 'legal right' (Declarator) and the court would issue and interdict that effetely stops the procedure from going through until the case is heard.  The court won't do that unless there is a sufficient body of evidence to suggest that the claim would be successful.

2. Assuming the SPFL refuse to accept the motion failed, it should be challenged on the basis that the Directors of the company failed to provide adequate information (in this case they clearly omitted the vital information that money could be released without the motion passing to end the season) to the members being asked to vote.  The members were being asked to vote on the basis that there was no alternative way of distributing funds when in fact there were ways and in any case members could have voted to create a way if it didn't already exist.  If this is true, the directors failed in their duty of care and court proceedings would have grounds (evidence required from clubs that voted yes)

3. The SPFL are invited to accept that the motion was not passed and that it should be re-proposed but with all of the rules being observed and all clubs in possession of the necessary facts before being invited to vote again.  Again, failing of the SPFL to accept this argument has basis for court proceedings to challenge our and other parties rights having been steamrollered.

Anybody read that differently.

Interesting thing for me here. is looping back on previous discussions about who can sue who and the fact that you'd be seeing yourself as a member etc.  This approach doesn't do that it simply says that the Articles of Association and Company Law were not followed and that we assert or rights under law.

Off to read Dundees response now...

 

[laukat]

5 minutes ago, Jag36 said:

Have Uefa insisted on leagues finishing to finalise champions league places? Not from what i've heard.

And why would any team have to go into administation if loans are available without the league needing to be finalised at the moment.

Think the answer probably lies closer to home and with the powerbrockers in Scottish football. Celtic want 9 in a row- might just be as simple as that. Rangers influence in Scottish football was diluted years ago

If the season is marked as complete Scotland is potentially entitled to a second champions league spot due to the runs Sevco and Celtic had in season 19/20. If 19/20 is scrubbed 2nd place is a Uefa cup spot which isn't as lucrative.

Sevco going into administration isn't going to be stopped by SPL prize money which is the maximum the SPFL could loan. The only thing that has ever made Sevco a going concern even when they were Rangers is access to the champions league. Uefa cup football will help but still leave a gap that only directors loans can fill.

3 minutes ago, Colognejag said:

Ludicrous. It's all about Celtic. Rangers do not want them to be crowned champions, that is their motive.

If they get 9 in a row early then thats clearly a positive for them but equally playing the remaining games gets them the same result. The only option that doesn't get Celtic nine in a row is the season being null and void. So why haven't Sevco tabled a motion for that?

From a financial perspective Celtic will get a champions league spot either way and can clearly afford to wait longer for a decision. The only concern to Celtic is if Sevco go bust then the TV deal might be at risk. Celtic don't want to have to tell their fans that they need Sevco to keep the dometic finances in check so are happy to play along with a scenario thats keeps Sevco afloat but a distant second.

So best option for Sevco and Celtic is season ends with current placings honoured. The side effect of relegating Hearts, Thistle, Stranraer and promoting Dundee United, Raith Rovers, Cove wasn't even considered or given any value.

 

[AlgarveJag]

sorry

Having gone all the way back to the start and the official statement from the club, they put it far more succinctly than I managed;

1. The information dispensed to Clubs and the process utilised in putting forward the resolution, could potentially be held to be a breach of the duty by the SPFL to provide sufficient information to member clubs to allow them to make a properly informed decision in relation to the SPFL’s resolution. In particular, the Opinion highlights the fact that the SPFL did not explain to member clubs alternative means by which payments could be made other than by requiring the immediate termination of the current league season. On that basis, clubs may have lacked sufficient information – by omission – to make an informed decision based on the SPFL’s briefing document.

2. The original vote by Dundee FC was cast in line with the SPFL’s own rules and must stand, meaning that the resolution falls.

3. There is the potential for the SPFL Articles to be altered, as would be required to bring a season to end early, in order to, for example, facilitate the payment of fees to Member Clubs.

 

[eljaggo]

Dundee's statement this evening says they want league reconstruction, and hint that they will not vote on the resolution at present.

[sandy]

"It is a time for integrity and impartiality” say Dundee today.

What happened to their integrity on Friday? 

Pillocks. 

[jlsarmy]

6 minutes ago, laukat said:

If the season is marked as complete Scotland is potentially entitled to a second champions league spot due to the runs Sevco and Celtic had in season 19/20. If 19/20 is scrubbed 2nd place is a Uefa cup spot which isn't as lucrative.

Sevco going into administration isn't going to be stopped by SPL prize money which is the maximum the SPFL could loan. The only thing that has ever made Sevco a going concern even when they were Rangers is access to the champions league. Uefa cup football will help but still leave a gap that only directors loans can fill.

If they get 9 in a row early then thats clearly a positive for them but equally playing the remaining games gets them the same result. The only option that doesn't get Celtic nine in a row is the season being null and void. So why haven't Sevco tabled a motion for that?

From a financial perspective Celtic will get a champions league spot either way and can clearly afford to wait longer for a decision. The only concern to Celtic is if Sevco go bust then the TV deal might be at risk. Celtic don't want to have to tell their fans that they need Sevco to keep the dometic finances in check so are happy to play along with a scenario thats keeps Sevco afloat but a distant second.

So best option for Sevco and Celtic is season ends with current placings honoured. The side effect of relegating Hearts, Thistle, Stranraer and promoting Dundee United, Raith Rovers, Cove wasn't even considered or given any value.

 

I think for the Clubs there is going to be other implications for consideration, think some supporters will be looking for refunds of season tickets with still a 1/4 of the season to go .

[scotty]

50 minutes ago, sandy said:

So there is unlikely to be a fully tested vaccine ready for public rollout by Sept 2020. 

Suppose it will depend on which company manages to develop it. Could be that most countries wont be able to afford it for the general public. Or am I just being too cynical?

[Dick Dastardly]

13 minutes ago, sandy said:

"It is a time for integrity and impartiality” say Dundee today.

What happened to their integrity on Friday? 

Pillocks. 

Maybe we have misjudged them and they have always wanted the integrity and impartiality and by cancelling their vote it was the best tool to get that moving. Perhaps reconstruction of the league was always their bargaining point and it wasn't about glamour friendlies.

I'm happy to have the jury out on DFC and see where this saga goes.

[javeajag]

7 minutes ago, scotty said:

Suppose it will depend on which company manages to develop it. Could be that most countries wont be able to afford it for the general public. Or am I just being too cynical?

No a number of companies have said they will produce and distribute free 

[Colognejag]

24 minutes ago, laukat said:

If the season is marked as complete Scotland is potentially entitled to a second champions league spot due to the runs Sevco and Celtic had in season 19/20. If 19/20 is scrubbed 2nd place is a Uefa cup spot which isn't as lucrative.

Sevco going into administration isn't going to be stopped by SPL prize money which is the maximum the SPFL could loan. The only thing that has ever made Sevco a going concern even when they were Rangers is access to the champions league. Uefa cup football will help but still leave a gap that only directors loans can fill.

If they get 9 in a row early then thats clearly a positive for them but equally playing the remaining games gets them the same result. The only option that doesn't get Celtic nine in a row is the season being null and void. So why haven't Sevco tabled a motion for that?

From a financial perspective Celtic will get a champions league spot either way and can clearly afford to wait longer for a decision. The only concern to Celtic is if Sevco go bust then the TV deal might be at risk. Celtic don't want to have to tell their fans that they need Sevco to keep the dometic finances in check so are happy to play along with a scenario thats keeps Sevco afloat but a distant second.

So best option for Sevco and Celtic is season ends with current placings honoured. The side effect of relegating Hearts, Thistle, Stranraer and promoting Dundee United, Raith Rovers, Cove wasn't even considered or given any value.

 

I think Celtic fear UEFA will null and void the seasons across Europe. Suspicion is Celtic want this rushed through to ensure they are crowned before UEFA make that decision.

 

[javeajag]

FAO Neil Doncaster. The Icelandic FA (KSÍ) accelerates payments to clubs to ease the financial burden. Look at the shambles going on in Scotland, the SPFL hierarchy couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. 

[BowenBoys]

4 minutes ago, javeajag said:

No a number of companies have said they will produce and distribute free 

  Sure.

What counts as a 'glamour friendly' in the world of Big Pharma?