BowenBoys Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, jaf said: Hearts would surely only rank alongside all other creditors? the money you speak of is only an asset if spfl games are played. thirdly the timing of the case is outwith hearts control. What other creditors? The money will be an asset of the SPFL on the date that is contractually agreed with Sky. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, BowenBoys said: What other creditors? The money will be an asset of the SPFL on the date that is contractually agreed with Sky. Yes. It won’t be an asset if the spfl say you better not pay us that as the clubs will not be fulfilling fixtures. the fact that they have an excess of liabilities over assets means they have other creditors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 22 minutes ago, Big Col said: I wonder what Chien Lee and his consortium would have made of this and if they would have funded a legal challenge. Chien lee was never involved in the consortium to buy PTFC......and Paul Conway seems to be struggling with the financial implications at Barnsley ......so no I doubt Conway would have funded a legal challenge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, jaf said: It won’t be an asset if the spfl say you better not pay us that as the clubs will not be fulfilling fixtures. the fact that they have an excess of liabilities over assets means they have other creditors. No, you're right. The SPFL fail to fulfil their contract and all clubs will suffer. Ok. Do these creditors have to be paid out of the £12 million TV money? Still can't see Hearts losing out. All the other clubs, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 5 hours ago, jaf said: Not a lawyer, but happy to point one thing out that I believe is relevant. SPFL is a limited company. It has a 'burst' Balance Sheet, ie an excess of liabilities over assets. Any successful legal action against the SPFL could see the SPFL company go burst but not necessarily the member clubs. As shareholders they have no duty to bail out the company. So even if a court case is won this jubilation of the catastrophic consequences it will bring on other clubs is probably misplaced. As is the hope that it will lead to vast amounts of cash being paid. Much easier for the member clubs to let SPFL Ltd to go into liquidation, and the members start again. Something which there is precedent for in a sporting setting. I believe. So Hearts, even if they win their case, may end up with a hollow victory, be awarded compensation and costs, and have neither ever paid to them. So the whole thing is a f^ckin sham. We can't get compensation because the Company that would pay us the compo would just go burst. Whereas if we we were successful in delaying the start of the season, the other clubs would sue us for loss of revenue/ income. So whichever way we turn, as usual , the cards are stacked aginst us. I am very close to giving up on the whole dammed thing. Might find an amateur team to follow or take up origami. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 8 hours ago, sandy said: The Highland League is good fun, Allyo. Recommend you take in a game or two this season if you have time. Arthurlie are a five minute walk from my house. But to be honest I won't be giving up on Thistle. More i think about it the more it winds me up though. Thistle have absolutely nowhere to turn. We only exist within the context of Scottish football, and Scottish football has thrown us under the bus. We now have to exist within an organisation that has willingly harmed us in order to advantage the other members. It's pretty hard to move on from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Suppose I wanted my cake and to eat it with my preference for a footballing solution or failing that a vigorous legal action. I agree with others on this thread that given our Board's dilemma which is - money available to strengthen playing squad or to fund legal action but not both - the Board have made the correct decision. However I note 2 points: 1. The Board reserves the right to change this decision should circumstances change (I assume this to mean Heart winning their legal action) 2. The Board knows which clubs supported us and who didn't (and won't forget it!); wish they would go public with the names of the clubs who supported reconstruction but know they can't. Hope it comes out in due course. Well it's no away games for me and gate money to club! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotterJag Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 47 minutes ago, exiledjag said: Well it's no away games for me and gate money to club! Maybe, over on the official website, there could be a small article every second Saturday, advising us which away games are worth going to because of local pub we should visit. Of course, if there is no decent pub to visit, there would be no article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 5 hours ago, JAG1970 said: So if these clubs can't/won't play then what twist is next..... a combined League 1 + 2 or an expanded Championship to accommodate the few teams who can / want to play...….. or do we and say Falkirk just sit it out and run the risk of dying.... I think if clubs can't play then sod them, they should sort the leagues out to accommodate the ones than can. Of course common sense and doing the right thing might not come into it but i'm genuinely interested to see how they (the clubs) get out of this one! Suspect SPFL will say to Falkirk, to us and any other club that can play "sorry nothing we can do to help; as there aren't enough teams in League 1 who can afford to play behind closed doors we have had to suspend your League indefinitely" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 And throughout this entire debacle the SFA sit back and do or say absolutely nothing. The entire hierarchy of Scottish football is not fit for purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinhead Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, exiledjag said: Suspect SPFL will say to Falkirk, to us and any other club that can play "sorry nothing we can do to help; as there aren't enough teams in League 1 who can afford to play behind closed doors we have had to suspend your League indefinitely" This 100%, We will then get a statement from the board saying that while we are dying a slow death we understand the situation and will fight on an invisible pitch in the virtual world to get our own back while stating legal action is now way beyond our means because we are bust! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 6 hours ago, Jag36 said: Findlay is totally clueless. Thought he was a Lawyer. At one point he talks about 'new technology' a device thats reads peoples temperatures..to detect coronavirus as if this could be the answer- although this has already been widely discredited as an effective means of 'testing'. Its embarrasing and Tom English totally exposes how incoherent his arguements are.. To those on this thread who don't know about Donald (The Sash) Findlay and I mean the younger Jags fans, Findlay is now a sad reflection of the man he used to be! He wasn't just a lawyer he was a Queen"s Council (QC) and as such at the very top of his profession. He was a very formidable defence QC and handled some of the biggest and most widely covered cases in Scotland! I believe he was thought of as a potential future Judge and elevation to 'Lord' status! He was also a senior Director of Rangers FC. Then it all fell apart! At a time when there was a lot of public emphasis on the evils of bigotry and with both Rangers and Celtic playing prominent roles to eradicate it the bold Donald (intoxicated) was filmed on stage at some event he was attending leading the audience in a rendition of The Sash! The film was shown on TV news programmes and covered on the front page of just about every Scottish Newspaper! He never recovered from losing his professional reputation, dignity nor his integrity! Although he continued to practice his prospects had disappeared. No disrespect to Cowdenbeath but I would say that's about his level now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 If we don,t get any football behind closed doors to cheer on next season because League 1 is a no go, there is actually another Jags team at Firhill. The Ladies have been playing in SWPL2 for a few seasons and maybe we could try and channel our support there and if half way thru their season they allow some socially distanced attendance at the ladies games then it would be easy to move there matches from Petershill and spread a 1000 people across Firhill stadium. I think we have to think of everyway we can to get through this period financially and stay afloat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Emsca said: I am very close to giving up on the whole dammed thing. Might find an amateur team to follow free entry & a carry out - you simply can't beat an afternoon at the amateurs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 7 hours ago, jags on tour said: Aye, canny be arsed with folk moaning after we’ve been Chateaux Neuf De Papped down to League 1. I reckon we'll see a few clubs wither on the vine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Big Col said: And throughout this entire debacle the SFA sit back and do or say absolutely nothing. The entire hierarchy of Scottish football is not fit for purpose. I was wondering what is Ian Maxwell's role as this shambles becomes even more of a shambles and what looks like an attempt to exterminate a number of smaller clubs by some that currently find themselves at an advantage. ETA: I do believe that some clubs in the top two divisions are rubbing their hands (with sanitizer) at the prospect that some others will fold permanently..... more money for them to pay for salaries that they couldn't otherwise and probably still won't be able to afford. By the way, if clubs voluntarily opt to mothball, the authorities could have a case for giving them no money whatsoever for that season...... hence quickening the demise of the weakest. Edited June 16, 2020 by Jaggernaut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p12tfc Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 If Hearts win their case and get compensation we would need to chip in for that compensation (Hearts May give ourselves and Stranraer a share back) if that happens we sure only have to take legal action similar to that of Hearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 An interim interdict preventing the SPFL from issuing fixtures and the threat of further protracted legal action might be enough. It's not as if it's two parties squaring up to each other saying "See you in court" while life goes on as they wait for many months to get to court. Being prevented from issuing fixtures means "life" wouldn't go on. It might convince clubs to put pressure on the SPFL board to get back round the table. However this pans out there are going to be long memories and scores to settle but it's the scores at 5 o'clock on a Saturday that we all want to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 8 hours ago, topcat said: If we don,t get any football behind closed doors to cheer on next season because League 1 is a no go, there is actually another Jags team at Firhill. The Ladies have been playing in SWPL2 for a few seasons and maybe we could try and channel our support there and if half way thru their season they allow some socially distanced attendance at the ladies games then it would be easy to move there matches from Petershill and spread a 1000 people across Firhill stadium. I think we have to think of everyway we can to get through this period financially and stay afloat. works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 10 hours ago, exiledjag said: Suppose I wanted my cake and to eat it with my preference for a footballing solution or failing that a vigorous legal action. I agree with others on this thread that given our Board's dilemma which is - money available to strengthen playing squad or to fund legal action but not both - the Board have made the correct decision. However I note 2 points: 1. The Board reserves the right to change this decision should circumstances change (I assume this to mean Heart winning their legal action) 2. The Board knows which clubs supported us and who didn't (and won't forget it!); wish they would go public with the names of the clubs who supported reconstruction but know they can't. Hope it comes out in due course. Well it's no away games for me and gate money to club! Why can they not? What would the SPFL do about it? Demote us? ( they ahve done that already) ; Take points off us? ( we dont have any! ) If they try to fine us , we just fold the Company and start a new one!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 What an utter shambles this shut-down, reconstruction and season opening up has been. The SPFL should hang it’s collective head in shame. And the SFA have done Sweet F*** All to encourage a more positive outcome. Selfish clubs, chasing the TV money. Scottish Football is dead on its back now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alb Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 I wonder if the sfa have investigated the legal options in terms of stripping the spfl of it's rights to oversee league football in Scotland due to bringing the game into disrepute.....I would assume they have some mechanism where they could do this, although whether they then run it, or set up another organisation to do it, it would still be debatable as to whether it would turn out to be any better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Alb said: I wonder if the sfa have investigated the legal options in terms of stripping the spfl of it's rights to oversee league football in Scotland due to bringing the game into disrepute.....I would assume they have some mechanism where they could do this, although whether they then run it, or set up another organisation to do it, it would still be debatable as to whether it would turn out to be any better I can tell you now what would happen. The unemployed Neil Doncaster would be given a £500,000 a year contract to lead the formation of a new organisation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 ‘That route was formally shut down by the SPFL on Monday, with Hearts, having had QC’s working quietly on their case for a number of weeks and due to submit papers to Edinburgh’s court of session within the next 48 hours, wasting no time in confirming their next step.’ Hearts with both their financial and legal backing I expect them to mount a very serious legal challenge .....it could be a landmark case on a number of levels for Scottish football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One t in Scotland Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 10 hours ago, Big Col said: And throughout this entire debacle the SFA sit back and do or say absolutely nothing. The entire hierarchy of Scottish football is not fit for purpose. To be fair Maxwell was always useless and promoted way beyond his capability. As for the SPFA - the protectors of the people who actually earn their living from the game and not a peep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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