banderas Posted August 7, 2020 Report Share Posted August 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Emsca said: Excuse my ignorance, but what rules did they break? I think 103 , PT3 , F34 Reg 6 deals with gatherings seems its the Law rather than guidance . Aberdeen 8 fell foul of 5 households outside, 3 inside don't think they were meant to add them up https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2020/103 103 part 3 f34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted August 7, 2020 Report Share Posted August 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, banderas said: I think 103 , PT3 , F34 Reg 6 deals with gatherings seems its the Law rather than guidance . Aberdeen 8 fell foul of 5 households outside, 3 inside don't think they were meant to add them up https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2020/103 103 part 3 f34 And you honestly think footballers could/ would follow that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 7, 2020 Report Share Posted August 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, javeajag said: Ok.....fact check....she has no position with the Scottish govt, receives no remuneration or funding but does feed into the Scot govt advisory committee see below .... The Scottish Government COVID-19 Advisory Group will be a time limited expert group chaired by Professor Andrew Morris, Professor of Medicine at the University of Edinburgh and Director of Health Data Research UK. He will be supported by vice chair, Professor David Crossman, Dean of Medicine at the University of St Andrews and Chief Scientist (Health) at the Scottish Government. She does in fact advise a number of other governments around the world , she is American and doesn’t quite understand the wonderful world of Scottish politics but of course as your anti independence you have to discount her professional advice her view on England not having a strategy on Covid except not over whelming the health system seems reasonable to many and not worse ?! July deaths Scotland 9 England. 2042 ill leave that there Sorry that BS and Sturgeon has already been caught on that stat. She only counts it as a COVID death if the person dies within 28 days of testing positive. UK counts all deaths of anyone who has at anytime tested positive. Even NRS is counting way under UK. Real figures here from https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files//statistics/covid19/covid-deaths-report-week-31.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 7, 2020 Report Share Posted August 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Norgethistle said: Sorry that BS and Sturgeon has already been caught on that stat. She only counts it as a COVID death if the person dies within 28 days of testing positive. UK counts all deaths of anyone who has at anytime tested positive. Even NRS is counting way under UK. Real figures here from https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files//statistics/covid19/covid-deaths-report-week-31.pdf Not true.....as you know the National Records Office for Scotland counts any death In Scotland as a Covid one where Covid is mentioned as a contributing factor on a death certificate....so the figures for July are correct and even if the Scottish figure was 400% underreported it would still be better than England but I note you didn’t try to argue you had better qualifications than Devi Sridhar in this area or we could look at Stephen Reichner at St Andrews ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banderas Posted August 7, 2020 Report Share Posted August 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Emsca said: And you honestly think footballers could/ would follow that? Don't think its a question of following : just pointing were them there rules are , Authority never accepts ignorance as a defense. I only looked it up based on the fact my daughter and another family member were in one of the establishments (actual resturarant ) , they have yet to be contacted by authorities though they have been contacted by the establishment and name , rank and serial number handed over to the authorities . I , like you, was wondering what rule they may have falling foul of . As an old vulnerable duffer with 2 members of the family who have popped their mortal coil due to this , I really need to know . Am practicing Social distancing and it is in strict effect since there's around 6000 miles between me and my daughter at moment. Footballers like everyone else need to adjust to follow the social norm's of the time. They may feel invincible , am sure some of their more vulnerable immediate family members may nominate them for the unconscious Darwin Award. my biggest problem is watching Juve Champions League game with Spanish commentary 2-2 agg , 2-1 juve , ronaldo (2) regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted August 7, 2020 Report Share Posted August 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Lambies Lost Doo said: @gianlucatoni I'm lucky I can work from home. Do you have reservations about going back in? For nurseries and primary schools it seems minimal risk but I can understand concern over older kids (although European stats look positive). You may need a visor as kids are spitting mad about SQA downgrading marks. Looking forward to getting back in but the reservations are there too - EIS snap survey revealed about 80% of staff did have some reservations about return - given that I am of a certain vintage (be quiet sandy boy!) the links to advancing years, baldness, being tall and slightly overweight is a minor worry... ...mercifully I am a young, finely honed athletic midget with a fine head of hair 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted August 7, 2020 Report Share Posted August 7, 2020 37 minutes ago, banderas said: Don't think its a question of following : just pointing were them there rules are , Authority never accepts ignorance as a defense. I only looked it up based on the fact my daughter and another family member were in one of the establishments (actual resturarant ) , they have yet to be contacted by authorities though they have been contacted by the establishment and name , rank and serial number handed over to the authorities . I , like you, was wondering what rule they may have falling foul of . As an old vulnerable duffer with 2 members of the family who have popped their mortal coil due to this , I really need to know . Am practicing Social distancing and it is in strict effect since there's around 6000 miles between me and my daughter at moment. Footballers like everyone else need to adjust to follow the social norm's of the time. They may feel invincible , am sure some of their more vulnerable immediate family members may nominate them for the unconscious Darwin Award. my biggest problem is watching Juve Champions League game with Spanish commentary 2-2 agg , 2-1 juve , ronaldo (2) regards Cheers mate. Sorry to hear your daughter was in the Deem last Saturday- I am sure she will be fine. I agree footballers, like the rest of us ,need to get used to the new rules. I am of the view, people are looking at the result rather than the action. It is like the Neil Simpson tackle on Durrant- the result was horrendous, but the action ( tackle) no worse than many others during that any many other games. In this respect, had there been no bad outcome, nobody would have known or cared that some players went out for a few beers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 7, 2020 Report Share Posted August 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Emsca said: Cheers mate. Sorry to hear your daughter was in the Deem last Saturday- I am sure she will be fine. I agree footballers, like the rest of us ,need to get used to the new rules. I am of the view, people are looking at the result rather than the action. It is like the Neil Simpson tackle on Durrant- the result was horrendous, but the action ( tackle) no worse than many others during that any many other games. In this respect, had there been no bad outcome, nobody would have known or cared that some players went out for a few beers. Listening to Derek McInnes tonight he was unhappy because.... they players had been told not to do this they knew what it meant to be in a social bubble they were out drinking after getting beaten by rangers ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted August 7, 2020 Report Share Posted August 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, javeajag said: Listening to Derek McInnes tonight he was unhappy because.... they players had been told not to do this they knew what it meant to be in a social bubble they were out drinking after getting beaten by rangers ! I'm sure he was angry. I think their biggest " crime "was going out drinking after getting beaten by rangers ! . I suspect old Del Boy was not adverse to a couple of sharpners after a game - win or lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted August 7, 2020 Report Share Posted August 7, 2020 I think that the first concern should be for the poor, young men who have contracted a hideous virus and their immediate well being. Now we can kick their stupid, sorry arses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jags on tour Posted August 7, 2020 Report Share Posted August 7, 2020 So how many players who are self isolating from one team will it take to postpone a game? I doubt if this was County or Hamilton at Ibrox or Parkhead tomorrow the game would’ve been called off. Funny how we had a game in hand because ICT stayed in the cup , the league gets called due to Covid 19 and get relegated and now Dons players cause a game to be postponed and it’s just re-arranged, they should be docked the points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted August 7, 2020 Report Share Posted August 7, 2020 1 hour ago, javeajag said: Not true.....as you know the National Records Office for Scotland counts any death In Scotland as a Covid one where Covid is mentioned as a contributing factor on a death certificate....so the figures for July are correct and even if the Scottish figure was 400% underreported it would still be better than England People are massaging the figures. Even in NHS. If you die of covid they need to prove it happened due to direct exposure i.e. PPE failed in a ward or contamination in a testing centre. If you're a porter or facilities maybe it happened outside.... They do this for comp reasons and avoiding extra death in service. The July stats from @javeajag are so extreme it shouldn't be posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted August 7, 2020 Report Share Posted August 7, 2020 49 minutes ago, jags on tour said: Funny how we had a game in hand because ICT stayed in the cup , the league gets called due to Covid 19 and get relegated and now Dons players cause a game to be postponed and it’s just re-arranged, they should be docked the points. It isn't funny JoT it's just typical of the SPFL ... you're right in that they should be docked the points and St. Johnstone awarded a 3-nil win... they won't do that though incase it sets a precedent and they have to similarly award 3-nil victories against the OF should they fail to field a team this season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 8, 2020 Report Share Posted August 8, 2020 7 hours ago, Lambies Lost Doo said: People are massaging the figures. Even in NHS. If you die of covid they need to prove it happened due to direct exposure i.e. PPE failed in a ward or contamination in a testing centre. If you're a porter or facilities maybe it happened outside.... They do this for comp reasons and avoiding extra death in service. The July stats from @javeajag are so extreme it shouldn't be posted. Who are these ‘people ‘ ? Doctors ? The national records office ? .....no it’s conspiracy theorists on a football forum .....the July stats are actual stats go check on multiple sources to avoid comp and death in service.....bizarre ....so there’s a Covid exclusion clause in the nhs pension scheme ? Think about it ...... the current excess death figures for the U.K. are now below the five year average which is easily checked eg on the FT free to view pages which supports these figures i get people don’t the Scot govt but this is drivel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 8, 2020 Report Share Posted August 8, 2020 21 minutes ago, javeajag said: Who are these ‘people ‘ ? Doctors ? The national records office ? .....no it’s conspiracy theorists on a football forum .....the July stats are actual stats go check on multiple sources to avoid comp and death in service.....bizarre ....so there’s a Covid exclusion clause in the nhs pension scheme ? Think about it ...... the current excess death figures for the U.K. are now below the five year average which is easily checked eg on the FT free to view pages which supports these figures i get people don’t the Scot govt but this is drivel There is a pandemic clause in a lot of life insurance policies limiting or restricting the payout, hence why so many south of the border are appealing the COVID on the death certificate when the person has actually died of a heart attack or cancer but tested positive of COVID at admission Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 8, 2020 Report Share Posted August 8, 2020 11 hours ago, javeajag said: Not true.....as you know the National Records Office for Scotland counts any death In Scotland as a Covid one where Covid is mentioned as a contributing factor on a death certificate....so the figures for July are correct and even if the Scottish figure was 400% underreported it would still be better than England but I note you didn’t try to argue you had better qualifications than Devi Sridhar in this area or we could look at Stephen Reichner at St Andrews ? It’s Steve Reicher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 8, 2020 Report Share Posted August 8, 2020 Very quiet on the ptfc Lancet this morning. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 8, 2020 Report Share Posted August 8, 2020 12 hours ago, javeajag said: Not true.....as you know the National Records Office for Scotland counts any death In Scotland as a Covid one where Covid is mentioned as a contributing factor on a death certificate....so the figures for July are correct and even if the Scottish figure was 400% underreported it would still be better than England but I note you didn’t try to argue you had better qualifications than Devi Sridhar in this area or we could look at Stephen Reichner at St Andrews ? Their role is to give a medical or pandemic point of view not to politicize it. As soon as something goes wrong the first response is “but England” she has started that too since jumping on board with SNP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 8, 2020 Report Share Posted August 8, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Norgethistle said: There is a pandemic clause in a lot of life insurance policies limiting or restricting the payout, hence why so many south of the border are appealing the COVID on the death certificate when the person has actually died of a heart attack or cancer but tested positive of COVID at admission What’s that got to do with nhs employees in Scotland ? Nothing whats it got to death with occupational health schemes ? Nothing Edited August 8, 2020 by javeajag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted August 8, 2020 Report Share Posted August 8, 2020 Just remember that 68.3% of statistics are a load of rubbish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 8, 2020 Report Share Posted August 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Their role is to give a medical or pandemic point of view not to politicize it. As soon as something goes wrong the first response is “but England” she has started that too since jumping on board with SNP Ok I get you are not disputing Devi Sridhar is more qualified than you on the pandemic but you dismiss her advice because she praises the Scot govt approach ......same with Steve Reicher as he has done the same ? Now be careful he’s on SAGE As these actual experts show since the Scot govt set up it’s own advisory group and took a separate approach to England - as have Wales and NI - metrics in relation to England have improved in every category ....I understand your political views get in the way if that but it’s just factually correct both Sridhar and Reicher both criticise the U.K. govt for having no clear strategic goal and they are absolutely correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 8, 2020 Report Share Posted August 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Norgethistle said: There is a pandemic clause in a lot of life insurance policies limiting or restricting the payout, hence why so many south of the border are appealing the COVID on the death certificate when the person has actually died of a heart attack or cancer but tested positive of COVID at admission and that’s also just bollocks.... https://www.abi.org.uk/products-and-issues/topics-and-issues/coronavirus-hub/life-insurance/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted August 8, 2020 Report Share Posted August 8, 2020 I think I need to correct my comment a out "massaging figures" to "categorizing them differently". My comment about payouts is down to NHS saying those who die who have no "death in service" as under 2 years service would get additional payout to family. Now there is a debate over who gets what, where was covid caught, was it direct to covid etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted August 8, 2020 Report Share Posted August 8, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, banderas said: I think 103 , PT3 , F34 Reg 6 deals with gatherings seems its the Law rather than guidance . Aberdeen 8 fell foul of 5 households outside, 3 inside don't think they were meant to add them up https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2020/103 103 part 3 f34 You’ve included some of the annotations and footnotes in there. Its a lot simpler than that. Regulation 6 of the Scottish Regulations is the one to do with limits on inter-household gatherings. If you are indoors, the limit is to three households meeting at the same time. The guidance also urges those households to socially distance, but that’s not actually law. If you are outdoors, the limit is to five households. Same principle on social distancing as before. There are then exceptions that allow gatherings from more than three/five households, such as for work, childcare and education settings. A gathering is (in layman terms) when people meet up with one another to socialise for whatever purpose. You’re not in the same gathering just because you’re in the same pub but if you’re hanging out as a group, or engaging in some sort of organised group activity, that’s different. You don’t need to be a lawyer to work this out though: all of these rules are also set out in the Scottish Government’s guidance on its website: https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-phase-3-staying-safe-and-protecting-others/pages/gatherings-and-occasions/ Sometimes the guidance has been more restrictive than the law during the pandemic, strongly advising against things that aren’t technically illegal, but the two seem to line up quite nicely at the moment (on gatherings, at least). Edited August 8, 2020 by Woodstock Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted August 8, 2020 Report Share Posted August 8, 2020 Time for the SFA and SPFL to show some leadership. Imo they have to call a meeting with all clubs urgently and remind them of their responsibilities of playing with the current covid restrictions. They are putting the 20/21 season in danger of being postponed if they break any of the current restrictions again. If the season was postponed that would mean that for the majority of clubs in Scotland season 20/21 might never be played and that would surely put a number of clubs future in doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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