What if they shut down the season?

[javeajag]

2 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

0.2%. So it is ok for 1 in 500 footballers to DIE just to get a sport .... an entertainment.... to restart.

Your assuming footballers Death rate would be the same as the general population when it’s likely to be less as they are fitter and healthier and how many would die anyway each year from other causes ( the additional deaths analysis ) in that age range ......if the argument is we can’t do anything if 1 person might die from Covid 19 then justify the deaths from the resulting unemployment , economic depression , domestic abuse, mental health , poverty and so on .....no easy choices here 

[scotty]

4 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Your assuming footballers Death rate would be the same as the general population when it’s likely to be less as they are fitter and healthier and how many would die anyway each year from other causes ( the additional deaths analysis ) in that age range ......if the argument is we can’t do anything if 1 person might die from Covid 19 then justify the deaths from the resulting unemployment , economic depression , domestic abuse, mental health , poverty and so on .....no easy choices here 

No there aren't easy choices but you are almost getting to the stage (which will come soon in the rest of society) that says we will need to sacrifice x number of lives in order to get the country up and running again to make profits for those at the top who can afford to isolate themselves and still make money from others putting themselves in danger. Who will benefit from fan-less football? Definately not the fans or the players.

[javeajag]

2 minutes ago, scotty said:

No there aren't easy choices but you are almost getting to the stage (which will come soon in the rest of society) that says we will need to sacrifice x number of lives in order to get the country up and running again to make profits for those at the top who can afford to isolate themselves and still make money from others putting themselves in danger. Who will benefit from fan-less football? Definately not the fans or the players.

It’s actually about risk management.....balancing the costs and deaths of a gradual opening up vs a prolonged lockdown 

I wouldn’t mi d watching a game on tv ! 

[scotty]

2 minutes ago, javeajag said:

It’s actually about risk management.....balancing the costs and deaths of a gradual opening up vs a prolonged lockdown 

I wouldn’t mi d watching a game on tv ! 

Which game would you choose?

[Auld Jag]

5 minutes ago, scotty said:

 Who will benefit from fan-less football? Definately not the fans or the players.

Or football clubs. I can see possibly the premier league in Scotland starting at some point, but not August. The other leagues in Scotland who knows if we will have a 20/21 season and who will still be about for 21/22 season.

[javeajag]

Just now, scotty said:

Which game would you choose?

Nice if it was thistle !

[Jordanhill Jag]

On 5/1/2020 at 7:37 PM, Norgethistle said:

Really?  Sweden was late getting the pandemic and has already soared past Norway, Denmark and Germany in cases per 1million population and deaths per 1million population, it is fast approaching France.

The important things to check is not numbers but % and the R value 

 

Sweden are going for herd immunity hoping their health service is capable, the cases there are still doubling every 5 days

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

yes but its Deaths per Million are the same as Ireland who went into lockdown quicker & stricter than the UK - and so far the Swedish Health Service is coping - like most Countries they massively underestimated  the impact on Nursing Homes - where a significant number od Deaths occured - they are still significantly lower than the UK in Deaths per Million - Norway could afford strict lockdown as there Futures Fund and Oil ( and Yes I know its taking a major hit - but long term it is a massive revenue source ) - So its very much looking like Sweden will come through this - the other Major Factor is to llok at the number of Non Covus Deaths as a result of Lockdown - both have to be factored in when trying to assess like for like comparisions   

[Jordanhill Jag]

20 minutes ago, scotty said:

No there aren't easy choices but you are almost getting to the stage (which will come soon in the rest of society) that says we will need to sacrifice x number of lives in order to get the country up and running again to make profits for those at the top who can afford to isolate themselves and still make money from others putting themselves in danger. Who will benefit from fan-less football? Definately not the fans or the players.

Complete Nonsense regards making Money for those "at the top" people need to Work - Business need to Trade - if they dont we cant afford an NHS - so this isnt about some sort of Conspiracy or Making Money for an Elite - this is about an Economy Functioning - if it doesnt the impact on those at the bottom will be severe     

[javeajag]

1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

yes but its Deaths per Million are the same as Ireland who went into lockdown quicker & stricter than the UK - and so far the Swedish Health Service is coping - like most Countries they massively underestimated  the impact on Nursing Homes - where a significant number od Deaths occured - they are still significantly lower than the UK in Deaths per Million - Norway could afford strict lockdown as there Futures Fund and Oil ( and Yes I know its taking a major hit - but long term it is a massive revenue source ) - So its very much looking like Sweden will come through this - the other Major Factor is to llok at the number of Non Covus Deaths as a result of Lockdown - both have to be factored in when trying to assess like for like comparisions   

We agree ?!!
swedens death rate is worse than their neighbours but way better than Belgium which has a comparable population or indeed the U.K. .....in addition 50% of their deaths are in care homes despite having a very early lockdown in those ( clearly an issue everywhere which needs looked at ) add in the over 70s and that’s most if their deaths .....their strategy may well be working 

[Jordanhill Jag]

18 minutes ago, javeajag said:

It’s actually about risk management.....balancing the costs and deaths of a gradual opening up vs a prolonged lockdown 

I wouldn’t mi d watching a game on tv ! 

Yes but - beyond the larger Clubs No one will pay to watch - so the smaller Clubs will simply Go Bust as for Deaths - this is here for the long term - there will have to be balance - eg Numbers that we accept from the Flu each Year without anyone noticing or commenting   

[scotty]

1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Complete Nonsense regards making Money for those "at the top" people need to Work - Business need to Trade - if they dont we cant afford an NHS - so this isnt about some sort of Conspiracy or Making Money for an Elite - this is about an Economy Functioning - if it doesnt the impact on those at the bottom will be severe     

Just wait until the plans come out about how to pay for this pandemic. Will the call from business be for tax increases?

[javeajag]

2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Yes but - beyond the larger Clubs No one will pay to watch - so the smaller Clubs will simply Go Bust as for Deaths - this is here for the long term - there will have to be balance - eg Numbers that we accept from the Flu each Year without anyone noticing or commenting   

Sure 60000 died in the UK from the Hong Kong flu ....

[Jordanhill Jag]

Just now, scotty said:

Just wait until the plans come out about how to pay for this pandemic. Will the call from business be for tax increases?

There will be No Profits from Businesses to pay Tax on - and why should Business Shoulder the Tax Burden-  and the population doesnt ? 

[javeajag]

1 minute ago, scotty said:

Just wait until the plans come out about how to pay for this pandemic. Will the call from business be for tax increases?

Tax rise almost certainly  but it’s will also need increased taxes on businesses 

[Jordanhill Jag]

Just now, javeajag said:

Tax rise almost certainly  but it’s will also need increased taxes on businesses 

Business will be making large losses and clawing back taxes for Years to come as a result 

We need to keep people employed - the concept of increased Business Taxation is nonsense - its about stopping business failure and mass lay offs    

 

[scotty]

2 minutes ago, javeajag said:

We agree ?!!
swedens death rate is worse than their neighbours but way better than Belgium which has a comparable population or indeed the U.K. .....in addition 50% of their deaths are in care homes despite having a very early lockdown in those ( clearly an issue everywhere which needs looked at ) add in the over 70s and that’s most if their deaths .....their strategy may well be working 

Sweden has a history of sacrificing their elderly for the good of the younger population and they have had social distancing in place for many years. These measures would never have been implemented voluntarily here. Swedes have always accepted a lot of unwritten rules for the benefit of society over self.

 

 

[javeajag]

2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Business will be making large losses and clawing back taxes for Years to come as a result 

We need to keep people employed - the concept of increased Business Taxation is nonsense - its about stopping business failure and mass lay offs    

 

Sorry business can’t be exempt particularly large ones and not all are suffering equally so corporation tax  back up 

[Norgethistle]

31 minutes ago, javeajag said:

It’s actually about risk management.....balancing the costs and deaths of a gradual opening up vs a prolonged lockdown 

I wouldn’t mi d watching a game on tv ! 

It’s not the risk to the players that’s the highest, it’s the officials , support staff and the thousands of families.

[jlsarmy]

Just now, javeajag said:

Tax rise almost certainly  but it’s will also need increased taxes on businesses 

JJ is right, in the Hospitality industry if they go with the plan for social distancing and 30% capacity, there will be no profits , at this moment the pubs are actually better being shut than having to open with the fallout that’s going to happen with the government’s template for reopening.

 

[javeajag]

Just now, Norgethistle said:

It’s not the risk to the players that’s the highest, it’s the officials , support staff and the thousands of families.

Ok let’s all stay in doors for 2 years and see what risks happen then 

[javeajag]

Just now, jlsarmy said:

JJ is right, in the Hospitality industry if they go with the plan for social distancing and 30% capacity, there will be no profits , at this moment the pubs are actually better being shut than having to open with the fallout that’s going to happen with the government’s template for reopening.

 

I understand that  but to argue that business in general shouldn’t have higher taxes means either austerity or higher personal taxation so the poorest pay while large companies don’t ? Not on 

[jlsarmy]

1 minute ago, javeajag said:

Ok let’s all stay in doors for 2 years and see what risks happen then 

You won’t have to wait 2 years , it’ll be a full on crisis within 3 months.

 

[javeajag]

5 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

You won’t have to wait 2 years , it’ll be a full on crisis within 3 months.

 

True which us why we need to open up 

[jlsarmy]

1 minute ago, javeajag said:

I understand that  but to argue that business in general shouldn’t have higher taxes means either austerity or higher personal taxation so the poorest pay while large companies don’t ? Not on 

The small businesses will struggle to be viable with the restrictions, the focus should be on companies like Virgin , Amazon etc with their tax avoidance which they do legally through off shore accounts in the Cayman Islands , British Virgin Islands etc

 

[Norgethistle]

18 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

yes but its Deaths per Million are the same as Ireland who went into lockdown quicker & stricter than the UK - and so far the Swedish Health Service is coping - like most Countries they massively underestimated  the impact on Nursing Homes - where a significant number od Deaths occured - they are still significantly lower than the UK in Deaths per Million - Norway could afford strict lockdown as there Futures Fund and Oil ( and Yes I know its taking a major hit - but long term it is a massive revenue source ) - So its very much looking like Sweden will come through this - the other Major Factor is to llok at the number of Non Covus Deaths as a result of Lockdown - both have to be factored in when trying to assess like for like comparisions   

Sweden got the disease 4 weeks later than Norway and 2 weeks later than UK, yet has a way higher death and infection rate. They aren’t close to peaking.

UK and Ireland have had way stricter lockdown than Norway. We can still go out, but keep our distance, factories are still open, all be it with a lot of home office.

The benefit Norway (outside Oslo) has is the sparseness of population, it’s easy to keep your distance, plus Norwegian mentality is generally to trust government advice and follow it.

As for the economy, we are up to 16% unemployed (we don’t have furlough here) from less than 1%,  the oil fund has had a double dunt, exchange rate and weakness of Krone has wiped 30% off it, plus global shares dropping has hammered it too. The oil crisis has still to fully kick in as ongoing projects are being worked but almost all futures (both sides of North Sea) have been shelved.

The unemployment crisis has meant NAV (Our DHSS) can’t cope, my girlfriend has been waiting 5 weeks now for dole money, she’s not the only one, there is a 6 week backlog and people are having to apply for emergency payments (automated).

Banks haven’t dropped interest rates, given mortgage holidays or helped at all.

Currently in Rogaland the government is paying out more than its taking in, as high unemployment plus no shops, bars or restaurants open, plus no air duty. Border is basically closed.

 

We are opening up again, slowly, but I won’t be back in office till June, that’ll be 3 months for me.