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West Ender

What if they shut down the season?

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9 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

The small businesses will struggle to be viable with the restrictions, the focus should be on companies like Virgin , Amazon etc with their tax avoidance which they do legally through off shore accounts in the Cayman Islands , British Virgin Islands etc

 

Agreed

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Just now, javeajag said:

Not necessarily 

Manufacturing, construction and retail is way higher, that generates way more to the economy than football.

Most businesses you are around the same core folk day in day out and social distancing can be maintained to a certain degree as can PPE (already worn in many places.

Putting 50000 people together in multiple locations every weekend for entertainment could put us back to square one if done too quickly

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2 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Manufacturing, construction and retail is way higher, that generates way more to the economy than football.

Most businesses you are around the same core folk day in day out and social distancing can be maintained to a certain degree as can PPE (already worn in many places.

Putting 50000 people together in multiple locations every weekend for entertainment could put us back to square one if done too quickly

Who said fans in Stadiums ?

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36 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Sorry business can’t be exempt particularly large ones and not all are suffering equally so corporation tax  back up 

No one will be exempt. There are 16000 top top rate taxpayers in Scotland. That is all.

Even pushing their rate of tax up as far as possible wont look at paying for all this.

Pain for everyone is coming. Likely scenario, a worldwide move to smaller government/state after years of increase.

 

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3 minutes ago, jaf said:

No one will be exempt. There are 16000 top top rate taxpayers in Scotland. That is all.

Even pushing their rate of tax up as far as possible wont look at paying for all this.

Pain for everyone is coming. Likely scenario, a worldwide move to smaller government/state after years of increase.

 

Wasn’t really looking at Scotland as such......actually the larger state is back just like society 

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1 hour ago, javeajag said:

Nice if it was thistle !

We have been able to watch a Thistle game every Saturday for about 6 weeks - and the best thing is we win every time !

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17 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

We have been able to watch a Thistle game every Saturday for about 6 weeks - and the best thing is we win every time !

Indeed ! 

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6 hours ago, West Ender said:

Well. I didn't think when I first started this thread we'd still be at it 100+ pages later.

Don’t start what you can’t finish !

 

ps. Another 133 pages to catch up with New Owners

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I think that as time goes on something is becoming increasingly clear. Football at our level is not going to be able to be played in Scotland for some time. Autumn is very optimistic.

Given the circumstances with player contracts etc something else becomes clear. The 2019-20 season was never going to be completed.

So while the league may have been called too early, the vote was messed up, the motivations were questionable and the burden is (currently) all imposed on us, I now think our final league placing of 10th is correct and we have to accept it.

Which means that a lot of the protestations don't really matter any more.

Relegation is a very different matter. Reconstruction to remove it should be a given. It obviously isn't but we'll see what happens. 

Edited by allyo
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22 minutes ago, allyo said:

I think that as time goes on something is becoming increasingly clear. Football at our level is not going to be able to be played in Scotland for some time. Autumn is very optimistic.

Given the circumstances with player contracts etc something else becomes clear. The 2019-20 season was never going to be completed.

So while the league may have been called too early, the vote was messed up, the motivations were questionable and the burden is (currently) all imposed on us, I now think our final league placing of 10th is correct and we have to accept it.

Which means that a lot of the protestations don't really matter any more.

Relegation is a very different matter. Reconstruction to remove it should be a given. It obviously isn't but we'll see what happens. 

I also worry about the Premier League in Scotland for next season. I don't see how clubs like Ross, Livvy, Hamilton and St.Mirren can make playing behind closed doors financially viable. Some championship clubs and below in England will have a similar problem. I can see a doomsday scenario developing where in a years time there might be only 40-50 professional clubs in the UK.

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32 minutes ago, allyo said:

I think that as time goes on something is becoming increasingly clear. Football at our level is not going to be able to be played in Scotland for some time. Autumn is very optimistic.

Given the circumstances with player contracts etc something else becomes clear. The 2019-20 season was never going to be completed.

So while the league may have been called too early, the vote was messed up, the motivations were questionable and the burden is (currently) all imposed on us,

33 minutes ago, allyo said:

I think that as time goes on something is becoming increasingly clear. Football at our level is not going to be able to be played in Scotland for some time. Autumn is very optimistic.

Given the circumstances with player contracts etc something else becomes clear. The 2019-20 season was never going to be completed.

So while the league may have been called too early, the vote was messed up, the motivations were questionable and the burden is (currently) all imposed on us, I now think our final league placing of 10th is correct and we have to accept it.

Which means that a lot of the protestations don't really matter any more.

Relegation is a very different matter. Reconstruction to remove it should be a given. It obviously isn't but we'll see what happens. 

 

i know it is going over old ground , but I could accept our final placing of 10th  if all the teams had played the same numbver of games.

We did not have the same opportunity as the other Clubs to amass points, so No our final placing is not correct and we should not sccept it. 

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29 minutes ago, Emsca said:

i know it is going over old ground , but I could accept our final placing of 10th  if all the teams had played the same numbver of games.

We did not have the same opportunity as the other Clubs to amass points, so No our final placing is not correct and we should not sccept it. 

If we can't play any more games then there are only 2 solutions. Current placings or Null and Void. Both hurt an equal number of teams unless there is some sort of reconstruction of the leagues, which is also going to hurt some teams. 

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46 minutes ago, Emsca said:

i know it is going over old ground , but I could accept our final placing of 10th  if all the teams had played the same numbver of games.

We did not have the same opportunity as the other Clubs to amass points, so No our final placing is not correct and we should not sccept it. 

We played enough games that an average is a pretty valid measure.

To be honest I think this is clutching at straws. QoS got more points than us and more points per game than us, and at the time when football stopped (which no one could control) their record was, by any measure, superior to ours.

Of course it isn't ideal but that is hardly the point right now.

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On 4/8/2020 at 11:24 AM, policemans whistle said:

If you are asking me if Norway are downgrading lockdown on the 28th of April then yes. The Norwegian government have already announced it. If you are asking me if flat racing will start behind closed doors on the 1st of may [also Jump racing on 1st of July] Yes I receive emails from a trainer in England, and at this moment preparations are under way. If you are asking me if Scottish football will return May/June. I don't have a clue.

 

I see no horses racing.

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1 hour ago, Dick Dastardly said:

I also worry about the Premier League in Scotland for next season. I don't see how clubs like Ross, Livvy, Hamilton and St.Mirren can make playing behind closed doors financially viable. Some championship clubs and below in England will have a similar problem. I can see a doomsday scenario developing where in a years time there might be only 40-50 professional clubs in the UK.

The big problem with English football behind closed doors (EPL) is the current TV deal, SKY will want a monopoly on their game being watched, and will not want their figures diluted with fans watching their own closed doors game. Championship, League 1 and 2 already have a pay per game TV deal for the individual clubs  https://www.efl.com/iFollow/ which seems to work pretty well, this is something that Scotland should look to do, difference being uptake here would be way smaller compared to down South, league 2 in England brings in a higher amount of fans per game than our Championship, in fact league 1 & 2 has a bigger audience than Scottish football total. 

Championship averages 18500 fans per game  per week = 222000 fans per week

League 1 averages 8000 fans per game per week = 96000 fans per week

League 2 averages 4500 fans per game per week = 54000 fans a week

Effectively they an audience of 372000 to sell to.

 

Scotland

Premiership averages 15000 fans per game per week = 90000 fans per week

Championship averages 3000 fans per week per game = 15000 fans per week

1st division averages 1100 fans per week per game = 5500 fans per week

2nd division averages 490 fans per week = 2450 fans per week

Audience of 112950 a week

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

I see no horses racing.

Irony being with horse racing that it's entirely likely that allowing Cheltenham to take place considerably aggravated the current situation. Our last fixture was on the 10th March. The festival attracted attendance of circa 250000 (maybe over 100000 different souls?) and finished on the 13th. Hard to imagine a worse environment for passing on a virus than a packed race meeting.

Cheltenham it can be assumed got the green light for commercial reasons. Think it's then fair to say that any early "green lights" in football will also be for commercial reasons. Using that logic it's equally fair to say that Scottish Football will come way down the pecking order. 

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12 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Irony being with horse racing that it's entirely likely that allowing Cheltenham to take place considerably aggravated the current situation. Our last fixture was on the 10th March. The festival attracted attendance of circa 250000 (maybe over 100000 different souls?) and finished on the 13th. Hard to imagine a worse environment for passing on a virus than a packed race meeting.

Cheltenham it can be assumed got the green light for commercial reasons. Think it's then fair to say that any early "green lights" in football will also be for commercial reasons. Using that logic it's equally fair to say that Scottish Football will come way down the pecking order. 

The Cheltenham error, plus the Liverpool V Athletico Madrid [keep in mind Spain were about 2 weeks in front of the UK in the Covid-19 spread] plus Rangers V Bayer Leverkusen [Germany were about 3 weeks in front of the UK in the Covid-19 spread?] would not have helped. The away football fans travelling in the 'petri dish' environment of an airplane must surly have increased the cases in both cities.

20:20 hindsight is easy, but it does make you despair to hear the UK government try to defend their policy of battling the virus during February / March. They way they talk you are asked to believe that mitigation followed by suppression was their strategy all along …. liars!

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1 hour ago, ARu-Strathbungo said:

The Cheltenham error, plus the Liverpool V Athletico Madrid [keep in mind Spain were about 2 weeks in front of the UK in the Covid-19 spread] plus Rangers V Bayer Leverkusen [Germany were about 3 weeks in front of the UK in the Covid-19 spread?] would not have helped. The away football fans travelling in the 'petri dish' environment of an airplane must surly have increased the cases in both cities.

20:20 hindsight is easy, but it does make you despair to hear the UK government try to defend their policy of battling the virus during February / March. They way they talk you are asked to believe that mitigation followed by suppression was their strategy all along …. liars!

Hindsight is a great thing, but all of Europe (and further) may have been blindsided by this as more and more thinking that COVID was actually rife prior to Christmas. France has now proven this, so we may actually be on the 2nd wave and more people than we currently think have had it, this also explains a huge spike in deaths throughout Europe and captured in UK on ONS data for December 

 

 

F6E7521A-75C0-493E-A8ED-BE5B9E0C478F.png

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17 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Hindsight is a great thing, but all of Europe (and further) may have been blindsided by this as more and more thinking that COVID was actually rife prior to Christmas. France has now proven this, so we may actually be on the 2nd wave and more people than we currently think have had it, this also explains a huge spike in deaths throughout Europe and captured in UK on ONS data for December 

 

 

F6E7521A-75C0-493E-A8ED-BE5B9E0C478F.png

you have a tendency to over simply and generalise on occasion....I saw that tweet retweeted from a professor who said it was interesting and needed looking into ....one test from one man in France and from that it was apparently ‘rife’ in France and proves this is actually the second wave

that is clearly at this time purely speculation in your part and not proven 

Remember last week cases were rising again in Germany and it was going to shut down again? Didn’t happen cases fell back and churches reopened yesterday ....

let’s keep to facts 

 

Edited by javeajag
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20 hours ago, scotty said:

 

You're both falling into the mistake that the journalists (and pundits with more excuse) made on Sportsound yesterday. DD has got it but is still talking about loans! This played right into Doncaster's hand as he is happy to talk about loans all day. This deflects away from what really went on. The issue had nothing to do with loans (that is also Rangers' mistake) but the money was available as advances and never offered. Instead tha SPFL chose to say to clubs that they could only get this money after they voted to finish the season.

Spot on; it has since been dragged out of them that ourselves and Motherwell were given advances on our fees in 16/17 (?).

So they could have and should have advanced everyone their monies due as per precedent.

They lied to everyone about this not being possible because they wanted to get this season killed off at any cost.

The gibbering about loans is a red herring from this and all the other issues about manipulation of the vote, etc.

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3 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

The big problem with English football behind closed doors (EPL) is the current TV deal, SKY will want a monopoly on their game being watched, and will not want their figures diluted with fans watching their own closed doors game. Championship, League 1 and 2 already have a pay per game TV deal for the individual clubs  https://www.efl.com/iFollow/ which seems to work pretty well, this is something that Scotland should look to do, difference being uptake here would be way smaller compared to down South, league 2 in England brings in a higher amount of fans per game than our Championship, in fact league 1 & 2 has a bigger audience than Scottish football total. 

Championship averages 18500 fans per game  per week = 222000 fans per week

League 1 averages 8000 fans per game per week = 96000 fans per week

League 2 averages 4500 fans per game per week = 54000 fans a week

Effectively they an audience of 372000 to sell to.

 

Scotland

Premiership averages 15000 fans per game per week = 90000 fans per week

Championship averages 3000 fans per week per game = 15000 fans per week

1st division averages 1100 fans per week per game = 5500 fans per week

2nd division averages 490 fans per week = 2450 fans per week

Audience of 112950 a week

 

 

If folk like us (expat home fans) could watch live again and others who cannot go signed up, then that could add to the figure. You would also get more away fans for a match than you normally get.

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