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What if they shut down the season?

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If it went to court and Thistle won, then the other SPFL clubs will owe us money. And this surely would constitute a football debt? Ergo, Celtic won't be allowed to play in the Champions League with an outstanding football debt, would they? :D

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1 hour ago, Jaggernaut said:

Well, if it went to court and the case was won in our favour, there is no reason why such a freeze couldn't be implemented if the SPFL owes us money. That might mean that other clubs would somehow suffer in the meantime, but so what..... many of them didn't care at all about us and the other expelled clubs' predicament.

If we sought (and won) a judicial review of the process used by SPFL, it would put SPFL's planning back to square 1.  While they might simply re-run the vote, it would give us some short term leverage.   However, it would probably turn out to be a hollow victory - particularly if the 2020-21 season is cancelled in the lower leagues, which looks increasingly likely.  

Edited by AirdrieJag

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16 hours ago, scotty said:

I wont hold out too much hope for compensation being voted through. The only money left (according to the SPFL) is the payout to the premiership teams. How many of them will vote to give some of that to us, Hearts and Stranraer. Sounds like Hamilton are playing the bluffing game as they did by saying they would have voted for permament reconstruction knowing no-one else would.

You could say the same about St Mirren, Aberdeen and St Johnstone who have all said either per or post the SPL meeting they are in favour of change! The St Mirren statement in particular is thought provoking, for example, get rid of the 11-1 voting requirement! 

Don't know about Hibs, Ross Co., Dundee Utd. 

My one reservation about St Mirren is that they voted against reconstruction on the previous occasion the subject  got that far - but of course they were in the SPL then! Hence the reason I would opt for their relegation rather than Hamilton. 

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I am clearly missing something here. 

If the SPL feel they can finish the season by resuming football at the end July (presumably behind closed doors) why can't the decision to call the leagues be reversed allowing  the lower leagues to complete their season as well. In fact why was it ever necessary to call the league's - to distribute prize money?? 

Adjustments can be made to distributed prize money based on final placings. Only objectors would be Raith Rovers and possibly QOS  but football integrity would be restored. 

Also why is it being suggested  there will be no lower league football in season 2020/2021. I don't follow this thinking at all. Surely the task of the SPFL is to get all clubs playing football as soon as it is safe to do so!

I would have thought social distancing requirements could have been more easily met in the lower leagues than at most of the SPL Clubs and perhaps Dundee and Hearts (if relegated) in the Championship. Arbroath, for example, play to crowds of 800 except of course when the big hitters visit! 

Apologies if I am being slow of the mark here and missing the obvious! 

 

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20 minutes ago, exiledjag said:

I am clearly missing something here. 

If the SPL feel they can finish the season by resuming football at the end July (presumably behind closed doors) why can't the decision to call the leagues be reversed allowing  the lower leagues to complete their season as well. In fact why was it ever necessary to call the league's - to distribute prize money?? 

Adjustments can be made to distributed prize money based on final placings. Only objectors would be Raith Rovers and possibly QOS  but football integrity would be restored. 

Also why is it being suggested  there will be no lower league football in season 2020/2021. I don't follow this thinking at all. Surely the task of the SPFL is to get all clubs playing football as soon as it is safe to do so!

I would have thought social distancing requirements could have been more easily met in the lower leagues than at most of the SPL Clubs and perhaps Dundee and Hearts (if relegated) in the Championship. Arbroath, for example, play to crowds of 800 except of course when the big hitters visit! 

Apologies if I am being slow of the mark here and missing the obvious! 

 

I think the overall cost of playing games behind closed doors or even with a vastly reduced crowd in attendance would be far to high. Therefor  the leagues below the premier league  may not be played next season. Even in the premiership i am not sure if some of the smaller clubs would be able to play games under the circumstances i have just mentioned. Of course if leagues below the premiership do not play for a season there will be no promotion or relegation.

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3 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

I think the overall cost of playing games behind closed doors or even with a vastly reduced crowd in attendance would be far to high. Therefor  the leagues below the premier league  may not be played next season. Even in the premiership i am not sure if some of the smaller clubs would be able to play games under the circumstances i have just mentioned. Of course if leagues below the premiership do not play for a season there will be no promotion or relegation.

Thank you for this explanation. 

I have no doubt you are correct.

Not playing and therefore having no income until season 21/22  will put every club in the Championship and clubs like ourselves and Falkirk (who will have similar overheads to championship clubs) on the brink of extinction.

The rest will just mothball! 

This is when we need strong leadership from SPFL  which of course won't happen because its bound by rules which to the SPFL are more important than the clubs! 

If I were the Scottish Govt I would be very reluctant to put money into a sector governed by the SPFL in view of the embarrassment it has inflicted on the sport and the Country! 

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Things might be different if the likes of Hearts and us were going to court and the leagues were due to start as normal at the beginning of August. I sense that with any start to the leagues being so far off that the SPFL would be able to enjoy a good bit of prevarication. On the other hand Sevco simply want to stop Celtic getting the title and time is a bit tighter on that score.

Edited by lady-isobel-barnett

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It is not inconceivable that football in Scotland can't resume until Feb/March next year. So, assuming most clubs still exist, why shouldn't we simply resume this season's leagues then?  Clearly fair & sporting integrity is preserved. Has SPFL even considered this possibility? Not exactly fanciful!

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5 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

It is not inconceivable that football in Scotland can't resume until Feb/March next year. So, assuming most clubs still exist, why shouldn't we simply resume this season's leagues then?  Clearly fair & sporting integrity is preserved. Has SPFL even considered this possibility? Not exactly fanciful!

Far too sensible.

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15 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

It is not inconceivable that football in Scotland can't resume until Feb/March next year. So, assuming most clubs still exist, why shouldn't we simply resume this season's leagues then?  Clearly fair & sporting integrity is preserved. Has SPFL even considered this possibility? Not exactly fanciful!

They need to complete the Premier League in the next few months or Celtic/Rangers will not be able to play in Europe next year. If the Premier League completes, they need to have some sort of relegation/promotion, so therefore The Championship, League One and League Two also need to complete, so much as your idea makes sense, it isn't actually possible.

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15 hours ago, javeajag said:

you may well be right ....but it is a plan......
 

‘Romanian clubs will finish the current season in Antalya, Turkey, according to Gazeta Sporturilor.

It is expected that the next two to three weeks, the team will fly Charter planes to Turkey, where they will spend two months. They will resume training in Antalya, where they will play the eight remaining rounds of the championship.

It is expected that this project will cost the Romanian clubs in the region of 2 million euros ‘ 

Romania league isn’t exactly awash with money

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Yup. Get all that, but if football can't resume until say late Q1 next year then the SPFL will have some big decisions to make, not necessarily mutually exclusive. 1. Shortened season. 2. Summer football. 3. Reconstruction. 4. All of the above. They should be discussing this kind of possibility. It's basic scenario planning (yes I know it's the SPFL we're talking about here). Anyway if this transpires I look forward to another bun fight & would hope the 13 clubs who voted for the independent investigation this week would lead the charge.

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20 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

They need to complete the Premier League in the next few months or Celtic/Rangers will not be able to play in Europe next year. If the Premier League completes, they need to have some sort of relegation/promotion, so therefore The Championship, League One and League Two also need to complete, so much as your idea makes sense, it isn't actually possible.

But the The Championship, League One and League Two copetiotions have not been completed, so how does that work.?

And I thought UEFA have said individual countries governing bodies can nominate which Clubs represent that country in European competitions? 

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3 minutes ago, Emsca said:

But the The Championship, League One and League Two copetiotions have not been completed, so how does that work.?

And I thought UEFA have said individual countries governing bodies can nominate which Clubs represent that country in European competitions? 

The vote a few weeks ago was to complete the season with average points. Officially they have been completed.

UEFA have also said that this seasons league need to be completed by a specific date (end July I think)

Besides. The issue was about distributing prize money cash to the lower league clubs and the only way that they could do that (according to the SPFL) was the call the leagues as completed and that is what the member clubs voted for. 

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24 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

The vote a few weeks ago was to complete the season with average points. Officially they have been completed.

UEFA have also said that this seasons league need to be completed by a specific date (end July I think)

Besides. The issue was about distributing prize money cash to the lower league clubs and the only way that they could do that (according to the SPFL) was the call the leagues as completed and that is what the member clubs voted for. 

They might OFFICIALLY be completed but they have clearly not been completed.

As for the point about having to finish the league before they could distribute the cash, that is so clearly shite it is not worth commenting on.

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1 minute ago, Emsca said:

They might OFFICIALLY be completed but they have clearly not been completed.

As for the point about having to finish the league before they could distribute the cash, that is so clearly shite it is not worth commenting on.

You might like to think that, but I couldn't possibly comment

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I see the SPFL have set up a committee to look at a proposal I made a few pages ago that setting up hubs[ 15 grounds] where the Betfred cup can be played. It would be set on a regional basis i.e on our case Jags  ,Clyde ,Queens and maybe Airdrie would play off in one stadium with plenty of room for fans to self distance and the ground set up to protect the players.

 

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, policemans whistle said:

I see the SPFL have set up a committee to look at a proposal I made a few pages ago that setting up hubs[ 15 grounds] where the Betfred cup can be played. It would be set on a regional basis i.e on our case Jags  ,Clyde ,Queens and maybe Airdrie would play off in one stadium with plenty of room for fans to self distance and the ground set up to protect the players.

The issue of self-distancing is going to be a big issue for football or any mass-gathering event. Imagine Firhill, say, with 1000 fans attending for a 3.00pm KO.  I haven't worked out how many you could get in as you would probably need to use every third row,  every two out of three seats vacant and the empty seats removed to allow access into the empty rows.,  Have a one-way system to use the empty rows to move in and out.

How do you get that (guessed)  number of fans queuing with 2metres between them to get in? Everyone will need to pay on-line and have some form of receipt which can be checked. You wont be able to use turnstiles as they'd need to be disinfected each time someone went through. So that gives you three or four entrances. Then once fans are in the stadium stewards would need to funnel individuals to particular seating areas and ensure that there are means of egress without them getting too close to too many others, Toilets would not be too difficult to organise as most if not all have two ways out in so you could have a one way system with one in as one goes out. Getting out of the stadium at full time would need everyone to remain in their seat until stewards tell them to go. The bottlenecks you see normally just couldn't be permitted. If you look at the queues that form outside supermarkets which are open all day and imagine if their customers were concentrated into a few hours then that is the scenario you'd be looking at.

It probably is possible to put the measures in place but the additional cost may drive the admission prices up to unacceptable levels.

 

Edited by scotty
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4 hours ago, scotty said:

The issue of self-distancing is going to be a big issue for football or any mass-gathering event. Imagine Firhill, say, with 1000 fans attending for a 3.00pm KO.  I haven't worked out how many you could get in as you would probably need to use every third row,  every two out of three seats vacant and the empty seats removed to allow access into the empty rows.,  Have a one-way system to use the empty rows to move in and out.

How do you get that (guessed)  number of fans queuing with 2metres between them to get in? Everyone will need to pay on-line and have some form of receipt which can be checked. You wont be able to use turnstiles as they'd need to be disinfected each time someone went through. So that gives you three or four entrances. Then once fans are in the stadium stewards would need to funnel individuals to particular seating areas and ensure that there are means of egress without them getting too close to too many others, Toilets would not be too difficult to organise as most if not all have two ways out in so you could have a one way system with one in as one goes out. Getting out of the stadium at full time would need everyone to remain in their seat until stewards tell them to go. The bottlenecks you see normally just couldn't be permitted. If you look at the queues that form outside supermarkets which are open all day and imagine if their customers were concentrated into a few hours then that is the scenario you'd be looking at.

It probably is possible to put the measures in place but the additional cost may drive the admission prices up to unacceptable levels.

 

1000 fans over 4 queues is 500m lines. 

From centre of JHS, down the south drive and 300m down garscube road

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1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

1000 fans over 4 queues is 500m lines. 

From centre of JHS, down the south drive and 300m down garscube road

We have 3 stands and they would be set out to make sure self distancing takes place. Also probably season ticket holders only.

On another theme We are hearing that reconstruction is back on the table. With Anne Budge being asked to look at further ways it can come about. Sportsound to-day.

 

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2 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

1000 fans over 4 queues is 500m lines. 

From centre of JHS, down the south drive and 300m down garscube road

You could cut this down if people arrived early enough,  (say 3 hours before kick off)  and then sit patiently in their seat!  :thumbsup2:

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2 hours ago, scotty said:

You could cut this down if people arrived early enough,  (say 3 hours before kick off)  and then sit patiently in their seat!  :thumbsup2:

And wait 2 hours to leave.

7 hours at Firhill in freezing rain to see us lose 1-0 to Montrose conceding a goal in last minute from a corner. Where do I sign up

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3 hours ago, policemans whistle said:

We have 3 stands and they would be set out to make sure self distancing takes place. Also probably season ticket holders only.

On another theme We are hearing that reconstruction is back on the table. With Anne Budge being asked to look at further ways it can come about. Sportsound to-day.

 

We closed the main stand to save a considerable amount on stewards etc.

With only 1000 season ticket holders being admitted it wouldn’t make financial sense to even have the John Lambie stand open.

Its not only the quantity of people in stand that sets the law regarding stewarding, it’s aisles, stairwells, concourses etc.

 

If you spaced 1000 in JHS you could potentially allow for safe distancing (stand holds 7000), Its the logistics of getting them in apart, keeping them sat apart, toilet visits, and leaving apart that will be very very tricky. 

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