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What if they shut down the season?


West Ender
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2 hours ago, laukat said:

I don't see legal action holding much chance of success for Thistle and instead exposes us to potential crippling loses. You can argue about the rights and wrongs of how the SPFL conducted themselves but what legal ground are we going to challenge on? If there were any found in how the vote was conducted the SPFL would either rerun the vote and get the same result or change the rules, rerun the vote and get  the same result. We might get if we win but if we're not due to kick off until 27th October at best, what are our loses that we are due compensation for?

Hearts have a stronger case than us as their relegation means they will definetly not be playing league football until 27th October and it could have be argued that they have lost the ability to trade due to the vote of the other clubs and are therefore due substantial compensation.

The only way open for us to protest this is via boycotting away games and putting our away money into the club. Looking after the club's interests is not just something that is only done by the board of the club. We as fans have the ability to do something.

We already have QC advice that:

1.Dundee's No vote should have been counted and not change to a Yes vote, but more importantly, 

2. The SPFL have a duty of care to all members and that they are in breach of this duty as they have failed to meet the required responsbilities/standards. 

I have already said I favour a footballing solution to our current predicament but today's news leaves us, IMO, with no option but to follow the legal route with Hearts. We can't leave it all up to Hearts as you can rely on a vindictive response from the SPFL if Hearts win! By this I mean the SPFL will not, as common sense would dictate, extend the 'Hearts' decision automatically to ourselves or Stranraer. They will force us to take legal action 'to win' the decision so might as well go for it now with Hearts! 

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6 minutes ago, exiledjag said:

We already have QC advice that:

1.Dundee's No vote should have been counted and not change to a Yes vote, but more importantly, 

2. The SPFL have a duty of care to all members and that they are in breach of this duty as they have failed to meet the required responsbilities/standards. 

I have already said I favour a footballing solution to our current predicament but today's news leaves us, IMO, with no option but to follow the legal route with Hearts. We can't leave it all up to Hearts as you can rely on a vindictive response from the SPFL if Hearts win! By this I mean the SPFL will not, as common sense would dictate, extend the 'Hearts' decision automatically to ourselves or Stranraer. They will force us to take legal action 'to win' the decision so might as well go for it now with Hearts! 

I agree and hopefully we are in discussion with hearts in proceeding jointly 

maybe a lawyer could opine on whether being voted out the league then nit being allowed to play amounts to a restraint of trade ?

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2 hours ago, One t in Scotland said:

Because the Premiership split doesn't really work when it's after two rounds. Rather than hanging on to a proposal that was never going to work Thistle should have driven a 12 team Championship idea that as there is unlikely to be any Div 1 / Div 2 nobody could reasonably have argued against.

Instead we got the fantasy world of statements appealing to other clubs good nature. Naive nonsense.

Suppose the idea was to show a bit of solidarity with the other clubs unfairly relegated( that 'somehow' excludes Brechin) with a solution that would be fair for all. Very happy for Hearts just to drag this through the courts now at the cost of other clubs. At a time when most organisations are trying to find ways to help each other out..scottish football has been a total disgrace. Their unwillingness to accept the slightest inconvience, while still, from what i've seen incredibly ungratefully accepting, a substantial donation. Think Hearts etc. might actually have a case so hope the greed that has overiden any fairness comes back at them

Edited by Jag36
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There is a lot of talk of us joining Hearts in legal action. I don't see this as being likely.

We don't know what their legal advice is. Likely, though, it will be based on the Championship not starting until October when the Premiership is starting in August. This is specific to Hearts. There may be more general legal points that also apply to us. But if Hearts best chance of winning hinges on points specific to them, I can't see they would jeopardise this for the sake of joint action.

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4 minutes ago, exiledjag said:

We already have QC advice that:

1.Dundee's No vote should have been counted and not change to a Yes vote, but more importantly, 

2. The SPFL have a duty of care to all members and that they are in breach of this duty as they have failed to meet the required responsbilities/standards. 

I have already said I favour a footballing solution to our current predicament but today's news leaves us, IMO, with no option but to follow the legal route with Hearts. We can't leave it all up to Hearts as you can rely on a vindictive response from the SPFL if Hearts win! By this I mean the SPFL will not, as common sense would dictate, extend the 'Hearts' decision automatically to ourselves or Stranraer. They will force us to take legal action 'to win' the decision so might as well go for it now with Hearts! 

I would love to take the SPFL to the cleaners and I'm 100% behind Hearts stance. If the league 1 season gets mothballed I don't think we have any choice to join Hearts.

However I'm not sure what success looks like from a legal battle. I don't see how the courts will return a final verdict before 1st August.

So that suggest to  me that either we go to court looking for an immediate halt on the season starting in lieu of the matter being heard by the courts or we go to court merely to seek compensation and allow the season to start.

If its the former option then that could makes us liable for all the other clubs cancelled games and lost revenue until the matter is resolved. Thats a hell of a risk.

If its the latter option then we're accepting demotion and arguing about compensation. If League 1 starts on October 27 our losses will be less therefore our compensaton would be less. If however League 1 gets mothballed our losses are huge therefore our compensation would be a lot higher and the risk is worth the reward.

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6 minutes ago, javeajag said:

I agree and hopefully we are in discussion with hearts in proceeding jointly 

maybe a lawyer could opine on whether being voted out the league then nit being allowed to play amounts to a restraint of trade ?

Not a lawyer, but happy to point one thing out that I believe is relevant.

SPFL is a limited company. It has a 'burst' Balance Sheet, ie an excess of liabilities over assets.

Any successful legal action against the SPFL could see the SPFL company go burst but not necessarily the member clubs. As shareholders they have no duty to bail out the company.

So even if a court case is won this jubilation of the catastrophic consequences it will bring on other clubs is probably misplaced. As is the hope that it will lead to vast amounts of cash being paid.

Much easier for the member clubs to let SPFL Ltd to go into liquidation, and the members start again. Something which there is precedent for in a sporting setting. I believe.

So Hearts, even if they win their case, may end up with a hollow victory, be awarded compensation and costs, and have neither ever paid to them.

 

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The media have been pretty much supportive of Thistle (at least BBC sportsound has been, and to be honest that's all I bother with). I just hope they are prepared to call this now for the self serving farce that it us. Obviously I don't yet know who voted for or against. But when these genial nice guy chairmen and chief executives come on to talk about how they have to look after the game as a whole and it's time to move on, they should be challenged on why an option which inflicted all the pain all on a few clubs rather than spreading it out was the right thing to do for the greater good. It very clearly wasn't, and they should be called as the hypocrites that they are.

The SPFL board have messed this up and clearly the season should not have been called while relegation was on the table. However in the end (probably despite themselves) they finally brought forward a version of what I think was the only reasonable option. Minimum reconstruction to eliminate relegation. The blame for this failing now lies with the clubs; they had the option and they refused.

Scottish football is now diminished as a result. It probably won't make much difference to most as everyone wears their blinkers, but it truly is a farce and an embarrassment.

Edited by allyo
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Quote

Was cautiously optimistic about reconstruction.

Now gives way to cautious optimism about League 1.  I can't see mothballing working, so for those that can play, let's play.

Denmark is allowing some fans to attend - gatherings up to 500.  Maybe by the time October comes around Scotland will be much the same.

 

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50 minutes ago, exiledjag said:

We already have QC advice that:

1.Dundee's No vote should have been counted and not change to a Yes vote, but more importantly, 

2. The SPFL have a duty of care to all members and that they are in breach of this duty as they have failed to meet the required responsbilities/standards. 

I have already said I favour a footballing solution to our current predicament but today's news leaves us, IMO, with no option but to follow the legal route with Hearts. We can't leave it all up to Hearts as you can rely on a vindictive response from the SPFL if Hearts win! By this I mean the SPFL will not, as common sense would dictate, extend the 'Hearts' decision automatically to ourselves or Stranraer. They will force us to take legal action 'to win' the decision so might as well go for it now with Hearts! 


 

our board have a cheek suggesting SPFL board aren’t fit for purpose , our board have just bent over and succumbed to the bullies , our board should refrain from posting anything else if it’s not involving the words legal and court , spineless ******** 

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Your reading comprehension must be as good as your spelling ability.

Unless you personally have got the six-figure sum required to spunk up against the wall for a court case guaranteed to lose, you should refrain from posting anything else on this board.

I thought you said you'd never be back yonks ago anyway.

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Suggest listening to Donald Findlays reasons for voting against reconstruction on todays Scottish football radio scotland podcast it is  absolutely laughable. He is unable to give any logical reason and is a total hypocrite- worth a listen. 

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Re the podcast...

In addition, he suggested that although starting on the same day as the Championship was the overall aim, some clubs had indicated that it would be 2021 before they could play again! It's not clear to me to what extent League 1 and 2 clubs "speak with one voice".  I hope for Thistle's sake he was talking solely about League 2.

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1 minute ago, a f kincaid said:

Re the podcast...

In addition, he suggested that although starting on the same day as the Championship was the overall aim, some clubs had indicated that it would be 2021 before they could play again! It's not clear to me to what extent League 1 and 2 clubs "speak with one voice".  I hope for Thistle's sake he was talking solely about League 2.

6 clubs “I know of” in league 1 would rather mothball

Montrose, East Fife, Dumbarton, Peterhead, Forfar and Clyde. They have all stated it’s no financially viable to play behind closed doors. 

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5 minutes ago, a f kincaid said:

Re the podcast...

In addition, he suggested that although starting on the same day as the Championship was the overall aim, some clubs had indicated that it would be 2021 before they could play again! It's not clear to me to what extent League 1 and 2 clubs "speak with one voice".  I hope for Thistle's sake he was talking solely about League 2.

Does this maybe have something to do with the Furlough scheme. Means clubs can leave their players on it until the very end and once furlough ends at the end of October they can begin their pre season training for starting in January. Also hoping during that time supporters are allowed back in stadiums. 

 

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13 minutes ago, a f kincaid said:

Re the podcast...

In addition, he suggested that although starting on the same day as the Championship was the overall aim, some clubs had indicated that it would be 2021 before they could play again! It's not clear to me to what extent League 1 and 2 clubs "speak with one voice".  I hope for Thistle's sake he was talking solely about League 2.

Findlay is totally clueless. Thought he was a Lawyer. At one point he talks about 'new technology' a device thats reads peoples temperatures..to detect coronavirus as if this could be the answer- although this has already been widely discredited as an effective means of 'testing'. Its embarrasing and Tom English totally exposes how incoherent his arguements are..

Edited by Jag36
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5 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Does this maybe have something to do with the Furlough scheme. Means clubs can leave their players on it until the very end and once furlough ends at the end of October they can begin their pre season training for starting in January. Also hoping during that time supporters are allowed back in stadiums. 

 

Furlough in its current form only runs till end of August after that the club will need to contribute a percentage (50%???) towards it

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19 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

I think we need to get ready for not playing a match the rest of 2020, with a big fear we may not play again if we can’t absorb the costs of running a club with next to no income.

I have the biggest fear for the survival of the club since Save The Jags days

I drove up Maryhill Road today - my heart  beat faster when I could just about see my seat but then beat with the fear that I might not be putting my fat arse on it for quite some time.

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40 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Does this maybe have something to do with the Furlough scheme. Means clubs can leave their players on it until the very end and once furlough ends at the end of October they can begin their pre season training for starting in January. Also hoping during that time supporters are allowed back in stadiums. 

 

From August they need to make some contribution towards furlough costs - I think 20%

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