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West Ender

What if they shut down the season?

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Gerry  on radio Scotland talking about our situation. Starts at 12-14pm. Very interesting things being said. 

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Thistle's game in hand came about through no fault of their own, when they had the misfortune to be scheduled to play Inverness (them again) away on the day when Inverness had to play a cup quarter final, which took precedence. Rather than speculate on what the result might have been, the fairest way would be to apply again the result when the teams met in the equivalent match in the first half of the season - Inverness 1 Partick Thistle 3.

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19 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

According to the pundits on radio Scotland, Hearts fans are saying they don't want to be saved from relegation by default. If the season is finished now, they accept they will be relegated.

Every Hearts fan?

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I don't want Thistle to get relegated but to stay up off the back of the Coronavirus would be embarrassing. If we get relegated as it stands then it's unfortunate BUT or own fault for being bottom of the league (on points and on average points per game). Ideally we'd get to finish the season but ideally we wouldn't be in the middle of a pandemic and we don't live in an ideal world.  We sound like pathetic Sevco Newco Zombie The Rangers 2012 fans greetin about sporting integrity when we're where we are because we've been shite. Bottom line is if we hadn't been honking all season we'd have nothing to worry about.

Edited by scottymagoo
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Irrespective of when football is back on the agenda, the first priority is to complete 19-20 season.

That has to happen - even if football is not allowed to resume until this time next year.

If that means that 20-21 does not exist as tournament in the calendar, then so be it. 19=20 has to be brought to its natural and foreseen conclusion before anything else can move forward.

That's obvious.............but probably not to Neil Dungdonkeycaster.

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1 hour ago, scottymagoo said:

I don't want Thistle to get relegated but to stay up off the back of the Coronavirus would be embarrassing. If we get relegated as it stands then it's unfortunate BUT or own fault for being bottom of the league (on points and on average points per game). Ideally we'd get to finish the season but ideally we wouldn't be in the middle of a pandemic and we don't live in an ideal world.  We sound like pathetic Sevco Newco Zombie The Rangers 2012 fans greetin about sporting integrity when we're where we are because we've been shite. Bottom line is if we hadn't been honking all season we'd have nothing to worry about.

We have played 1 game less than QOS, win that and we wouldn't be bottom. I can see them doing an average points per game, then they can give Celtic and the other teams at the top of their leagues. If they decide to decide things on average points per game we would be relegated as we would have an average of 0.96 point per game and QOS 1 point per game, but what happens with play offs. Of course as others have suggested, give league titles to the teams at the top of their respective leagues, promote 2 teams from each league, no relegation, bring in 2 new teams. Not everybody will be happy with whatever solution they come up with.

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1 hour ago, scottymagoo said:

I don't want Thistle to get relegated but to stay up off the back of the Coronavirus would be embarrassing. If we get relegated as it stands then it's unfortunate BUT or own fault for being bottom of the league (on points and on average points per game). Ideally we'd get to finish the season but ideally we wouldn't be in the middle of a pandemic and we don't live in an ideal world.  We sound like pathetic Sevco Newco Zombie The Rangers 2012 fans greetin about sporting integrity when we're where we are because we've been shite. Bottom line is if we hadn't been honking all season we'd have nothing to worry about.

The season is 36 games in this league and that is what every club should be judged on. 
last season it took us to the last game to stay in the league. 
If we go down we go down. If we stay up it isn’t an embarrassment at least not to me.

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11 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

The season is 36 games in this league and that is what every club should be judged on. 
last season it took us to the last game to stay in the league. 
If we go down we go down. If we stay up it isn’t an embarrassment at least not to me.

The season's over.

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3 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

The season is 36 games in this league and that is what every club should be judged on. 
last season it took us to the last game to stay in the league. 
If we go down we go down. If we stay up it isn’t an embarrassment at least not to me.

Spot on. Football matches are played until a final whistle. Seasons are played until the end of the final match. Thistle being condemned as relegated right now would be a sporting disgrace. I'd he happy to financially support PTFC specifically in the future but would find it difficult to support Scottish football in any form if this happens.

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I know we are bottom of the league and any team that ends up in that position should be relegated. But the season has not ended and we have played 1 game less than the team above us, with a chance of overtaking them if we play the same amount of games. We all know we are well down the pecking order of most teams concerns when it comes to making any decisions. The teams and people who decide where we are playing when this is sorted will only be thinking about themselves and how they can get 4 bigot derby's in to keep the tv companies happy.

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Ideally finish the season but if that's not possible how about re-starting the season with everyone on their current points? Everyone's rewarded/penalised on how they've performed over the abandoned season, 36 games to consolidate/atone.

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Finish the current season next autumn*, and instead of a league season 20-21, introduce a big one-off competition, something like the old League Cup format of mini-leagues then knock-out matches. Get that competition sponsored by Corona beer.

*Winners and losers will be promoted/relegated for the start of season 21-22.

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Whatever decision they come to, the current season has to have a line drawn under it by 31st May (at a push mid June). Players from many clubs will be out of contract at the end of May (I think we will be down to 7 players) and while it is possible to have short term contracts and loan extensions for a couple of weeks, that is not sustainable once we get into the second half of June. Come first July, players will be free agents and can sign permanent deals for whoever they like and it will be impossible to sign player if you don't know what league you will be in and what wages you will be able to offer. Also, there are rules about how many clubs a player can turn out for in a season, which would presumably still apply unless there is a rule change.

And then there are clubs going into administration (there will be some) do they get points deductions ? If they don't, what happens to clubs who have already been penalised this season.

Finally we don't need a knee jerk reaction now. There are a few weeks grace period to come to a proper well reasoned decision, however they do need to decide what happens next before the end of the current suspension so that every one knows the rules and there are no retrospective decisions where the fate of a team is decided after the event.

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Firstly, apologies to Bill Shankly, but the seriousness of the situation re this virus is overwhelmingly more important than anything to do with a game of football and, for that matter PTFC. But this is a football forum and while it could be both crass and insensitive to discuss the subject matter of this thread on some general platform, I personally don't see anything amiss that way on here. In any case I'm sure we all know what big picture is being screened at the moment.

Our biggest allies are Hearts (ironic in itself re Thistlegate). I'd feel more worried about and less confident in the SFA/SPFL reaching a favourable decision if Accies or St Mirren were anchored at the bottom of the top tier. A big club like Hearts will be more equipped to launch a legal action plus 3 or 4 Edinburgh derbies may well be a bargaining chip if TV contracts are or have been voided.  God knows the practicalities (commercially and logistically) but perhaps starting from Aug/Sept we could play this season to it's natural conclusion and then have an abridged season playing each other twice instead of four times. Even typing that I haven't a clue how Euro qualifications and whether the top division has a split or not. I still favour larger leagues if even for only one or two seasons but it looks like there'll be more questions than answers just now. 

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1 hour ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Whatever decision they come to, the current season has to have a line drawn under it by 31st May (at a push mid June). Players from many clubs will be out of contract at the end of May (I think we will be down to 7 players) and while it is possible to have short term contracts and loan extensions for a couple of weeks, that is not sustainable once we get into the second half of June. Come first July, players will be free agents and can sign permanent deals for whoever they like and it will be impossible to sign player if you don't know what league you will be in and what wages you will be able to offer. Also, there are rules about how many clubs a player can turn out for in a season, which would presumably still apply unless there is a rule change.

And then there are clubs going into administration (there will be some) do they get points deductions ? If they don't, what happens to clubs who have already been penalised this season.

Finally we don't need a knee jerk reaction now. There are a few weeks grace period to come to a proper well reasoned decision, however they do need to decide what happens next before the end of the current suspension so that every one knows the rules and there are no retrospective decisions where the fate of a team is decided after the event.

Agree with this. Which is why the SRU response was very good. By giving out giving out funding to clubs now it allowed time for the conversation about what should happen to take place and to give more time to make a decision.

Articles like the one from the Sun that say Boris will stop the leagues imply that the SFA hope someone else will make a decision for them. I've seen other articles implying that we're waiting on UEFA or FIFA. The SRU showed  that we're not and a way forward that should be copied.

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If the SFA pay out what would be the lowest prize money to every team then that should help a lot of clubs get through this difficult period.

Saw a proposal for a 16 team league based on a model with multiple splits and playoffs in it , looked good , it retained the oft talked about 4 OF games (providing one of them doeant tank for a season) and also gives most teams something to play for right up to the end. Seen it before in I think Belgium and it seems to work there, so there is zero chance of doing it here :)

 

This should be the ideal chance to look at proper league reconstruction and why not do something radical while we have a chance 

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3 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Whatever decision they come to, the current season has to have a line drawn under it by 31st May (at a push mid June). Players from many clubs will be out of contract at the end of May (I think we will be down to 7 players) and while it is possible to have short term contracts and loan extensions for a couple of weeks, that is not sustainable once we get into the second half of June. Come first July, players will be free agents and can sign permanent deals for whoever they like and it will be impossible to sign player if you don't know what league you will be in and what wages you will be able to offer. Also, there are rules about how many clubs a player can turn out for in a season, which would presumably still apply unless there is a rule change.

And then there are clubs going into administration (there will be some) do they get points deductions ? If they don't, what happens to clubs who have already been penalised this season.

Finally we don't need a knee jerk reaction now. There are a few weeks grace period to come to a proper well reasoned decision, however they do need to decide what happens next before the end of the current suspension so that every one knows the rules and there are no retrospective decisions where the fate of a team is decided after the event.

I don’t think normal rules are going to apply.  

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3 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

There are a few weeks grace period to come to a proper well reasoned decision

From the SPFL/SFA ? not holding my breath on that one!

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17 minutes ago, Junior said:

If the SFA pay out what would be the lowest prize money to every team then that should help a lot of clubs get through this difficult period.

Saw a proposal for a 16 team league based on a model with multiple splits and playoffs in it , looked good , it retained the oft talked about 4 OF games (providing one of them doeant tank for a season) and also gives most teams something to play for right up to the end. Seen it before in I think Belgium and it seems to work there, so there is zero chance of doing it here :)

 

This should be the ideal chance to look at proper league reconstruction and why not do something radical while we have a chance 

Since that format has been introduced in Belgium it has been constantly moaned about by everyone involved, they are always talking about changing it.

No-one has been happy with it, even the big 5 or so clubs who wanted it in the first place to guarantee themselves more big games against each other.

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Wholheartedly agree with the preface to lady-isobel-barnett's post earlier today.

Debating matters here at least gives us something to do.

1 hour ago, Junior said:

If the SFA pay out what would be the lowest prize money to every team then that should help a lot of clubs get through this difficult period.

Saw a proposal for a 16 team league based on a model with multiple splits and playoffs in it , looked good , it retained the oft talked about 4 OF games (providing one of them doeant tank for a season) and also gives most teams something to play for right up to the end. Seen it before in I think Belgium and it seems to work there, so there is zero chance of doing it here :)

 

This should be the ideal chance to look at proper league reconstruction and why not do something radical while we have a chance 

Yes, a great opportunity to look at proper league reconstruction. Hopefully doing something radical would include not having 4 OF games as a prerequisite in any discussions.

Start with a blank canvas. Blinkers off, Doncaster.

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I have spent all morning sadly talking with clients about letting staff go, be it redundancy or laying off.

The big issue for Scottish football I suspect isn't the conclusion of this particular season in whatever imperfect way they decide, it is in fact the economic consequences of this are likely to extend into next seasons season ticket sales, and attendances, and perhaps even beyond, as people lose employment and their businesses.

There are many more important things right now than whether we are 'unfairly' relegated (again). There is not a perfect solution to all of this. 

 

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Ok....

Livi heard this today... so source from there 

1. season over 

2. Cup semis first games of next season

3. Hearts relegated 

4. Problem with our relegation due to games played 
 

would explain Ann Budge legal threat 

 

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5 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Ok....

Livi heard this today... so source from there 

1. season over 

2. Cup semis first games of next season

3. Hearts relegated 

4. Problem with our relegation due to games played 
 

would explain Ann Budge legal threat 

 

Yes. I can now see that by looking at the tables that if they kill season, due to position, points,games that Thistle would be the only issue that can change.

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