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West Ender

What if they shut down the season?

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2 minutes ago, jaf said:

Yes, thanks

We all had work from home capability for some time, so its not been too bad.

However some individuals have found it impossible to work due to their individual circumstances, and we are really flexible with them, but regardless,  there is a fair amount of time reassuring people who feel insecure, just trying to be a good employer and treat people how you would wish treated yourself.  Just heard today of a competitor reducing to 4 day week, and furloughing a big chunk of their staff which will ramp up the insecurity further. So far we don't have to go down that route though, thankfully.

A tough time especially when you’re balancing your concerns with that of a sizeable work force and their concerns. It’s such a strange situation people react in different ways. 

Is staff working from home you maybe continue down the line? 

I’ve taken redundancy so if you need anyone around the end of the month DM me lol

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4 hours ago, elevenone said:

club update.  some amazing funds raised by fans and partial refunds available on season tickets should it be required.  

https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/club-update-23rd-april-2020/

Great to see the club showing awareness of peoples situations. A good initiative, albeit one that I am fortunate that I will not be needing to avail myself of for the 3 tickets that come out of my pocket, but I understand everyone will have to make their own decision, and just as the club accept that, I hope some do not turn this into the tedious oft-seen 'I'm a better fan than you' argument!

 

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3 minutes ago, jagfox said:

A tough time especially when you’re balancing your concerns with that of a sizeable work force and their concerns. It’s such a strange situation people react in different ways. 

Is staff working from home you maybe continue down the line? 

I’ve taken redundancy so if you need anyone around the end of the month DM me lol

LOL - you never know your luck

I don't see it working long term (if we have an option) 

Some have adapted well to it, some badly, some have home lives that make it too chaotic to work, and the final group some who live by themselves are admitting they are lonely and down and missing the office and social interactions. A few Zoom calls and WhatsApp messages don't seem to make up for human face to face interactions.

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I despise our current leader with a passion but i will not claim back my refund because at the end of the day the club will hopefully be around long after the wicked witch has gone!

I will also have to go back on my previous promise to never renew my season ticket, the club is bigger than one or two people. I will buy my season ticket but will probably not attend out of principle.

Edited by Pinhead
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1 hour ago, jaf said:

LOL - you never know your luck

I don't see it working long term (if we have an option) 

Some have adapted well to it, some badly, some have home lives that make it too chaotic to work, and the final group some who live by themselves are admitting they are lonely and down and missing the office and social interactions. A few Zoom calls and WhatsApp messages don't seem to make up for human face to face interactions.

Personally i would rather never face an office environment ever again. I think with this a lot of companies can no longer say that working from home is not possible and hopefully they offer an olive branch for a work/life balance. I think we need to look at how things were, how they are and adapt to how they will be in the future. I understand a lot of places cannot work like this and you will always have the micro managing companies but we now need to embrace change and adapt.

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5 hours ago, Pinhead said:

Personally i would rather never face an office environment ever again. I think with this a lot of companies can no longer say that working from home is not possible and hopefully they offer an olive branch for a work/life balance. I think we need to look at how things were, how they are and adapt to how they will be in the future. I understand a lot of places cannot work like this and you will always have the micro managing companies but we now need to embrace change and adapt.

Very good post there. Hopefully there is a culture change in society in all aspects. Maybe it doesn't have a selfish society anymore. People have shown they do care. I just wish our governments would show they care as much. Unfortunately I am one of the many who cannot work from home. Unless I can e-mail you your weekly shopping.  Lol

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20 hours ago, exiledjag said:

We all did better in a bigger league.  Celtic, Rangers, Kilmarnock, Dunfermline, Dundee, and to a lesser extent the Edinburgh Clubs all did better in Europe under the old 18 team League and distribution of gate money arrangements! 

I thought that back in the day, crowds were dwindling due to an overabundance of meaningless games in the larger leagues, which is why the ten team divisions were invented in the first place; not that they stopped the decline, but that's due to a multitude of factors.

Regardless, Scottish clubs probably did better in Europe back then simply because the quality of Scottish football wasn't as absolutely gash as it is now, and I doubt league sizes is going to improve that.

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9 hours ago, Pinhead said:

Personally i would rather never face an office environment ever again. I think with this a lot of companies can no longer say that working from home is not possible and hopefully they offer an olive branch for a work/life balance. I think we need to look at how things were, how they are and adapt to how they will be in the future. I understand a lot of places cannot work like this and you will always have the micro managing companies but we now need to embrace change and adapt.

Its not all about micro-managing though. or employers driving this.

Some people just prefer to come to an office environment for their social interactions, or who just cannot perform adequately from home for one reason or another - why should they be compelled to do something they don't want to?  Don't judge everyone by your own personal preferences. I am guessing a straw poll of our staff would see about an 80/20 split in favour of being in the office. That's actually quite humbling because it demonstrates the positive culture that can be created. How do I know that number? Because I have constantly been communicating making sure people are managing ok, so I am aware of their successes, failures, frustrations. 

In respect of us, we have lots of people on flexible working hours, and who work from home when it suits them (in normal times). So we already embrace home working where it suits. Many staff therefore have 'the best of both worlds'.

I am sure a lot of employers would prefer not to have rent and rates costs, but in some cases the caring approach is to still have an office, because that's what the employees want.  That's why what I hoped for yesterday was some direction as to what I need to do to make the office functional in the long term which in turn will give employees who crave it an opportunity to return to work.

Finally, my wife worked from home for a long time. I know the impact it can have on people's mental health first hand in some cases, and I believe there are lots of studies about this. Quite apart from impact on domestic relationships. So in my opinion, working from home is definitely not a one size fits all solution - like all things, you need to consider the individual circumstances, and the individual.

 

 

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12 hours ago, jagfox said:

 

Most healthy People can’t stay in their houses for 12-18 months. I took from the piece that we are moving towards lessening the (very light) lockdown. 

Obviously risk needs to be weighed up with benefits and I’d assume our government will verge on the cautious side of things. The document details potential harm from staying in the current state of affairs for too long.

Football and other large scale events will be far down the list but that’s because they’re potentially more harmful than someone returning to work in a safe and hygienic environment.

I'm not sure the UK government have been clear on this, but I think their long term [6 month > 18 month] aim is to develop 'herd immunity' within the population. Where I think the UK may have a problem is the general health of our population. There will be a few 35 year olds who think the virus wont impact them simply because of their age, but a 35 year old who drinks to excess, smokes and is overweight has 3 'underlying medical issues', and therefore is likely to suffer badly if infected.

I agree with what you say regarding crowds, I remember the last game I attended at Firhill [against QOS] I felt uncomfortable simply because of the proximity of folk who were potential virus carriers. I think I would want to have a vaccine that worked before can I attend a game and relax knowing that I wont become infected with Covid-19, and my guess is most football fans would feel the same.

For sure the country has to open up, but this testing routine has to be established and shown to be effective before people will be relaxed enough to go back to work , and to work effectively.

It would be nice to see schools back, and the construction industry, but I think we will have to wait for haircuts and tattoos!! [re. Georgia]  ….. Mass gatherings for music, theatre and sport may have to wait until 2021unfortunately.

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15 hours ago, jaf said:

My Sixth Year Studies English teacher would be offended by that suggestion!

Ah the days of CSYS, fond memories...

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5 hours ago, West of Scotland said:

I thought that back in the day, crowds were dwindling due to an overabundance of meaningless games in the larger leagues, which is why the ten team divisions were invented in the first place; not that they stopped the decline, but that's due to a multitude of factors.

Regardless, Scottish clubs probably did better in Europe back then simply because the quality of Scottish football wasn't as absolutely gash as it is now, and I doubt league sizes is going to improve that.

The introduction of the Premier League in the 70s was primarily down to trying to raise the level of competition. The OF were winning everything in sight (particularly Celtic). The big difference back then was that gate money was split and thus the money was more evenly shared. Couple that with more restriction on contracts it meant that clubs could hold onto key players longer. The OF didn't cherry-pick players from other Scottish clubs as easily as they had previously with these clubs now enjoying the proceeds from twice as many games against Celtic & Rangers. Indeed Aberdeen reportedly paid higher wages than Rangers in any case. 

Even tho' the split gates were done away with in the early 80s it probably had created the climate where Aberdeen & Dundee Utd could challenge and surpass the OF on the field. Once tho' keeping the proceeds from home games eventually kicked in, clubs seriously challenging the OF dropped off. Since then the OF have won every league championship. Lion's share of gate money, TV rights, European cup money.

The irony being the very thing the smaller "four times a season" top tier was introduced for now produces the complete opposite effect.

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Couldn't agree more with the honourable Lady Barnet.

Ceasing to split the gate money had been the biggest single detriment to the non-OF teams in 3 or 4 decades.

No one outside the deadly duo has, or will ever again, win the top league, and that makes for an entirely pointless league season.

All the teams, bar two, have no chance of winning their league. At least relegation gives the opportunity to pick up a league championship.

.....and the OF have the bare-faced cheek to blame the other Premier League teams for not offering a sufficient challenge to enable them to be sharp enough for success in Europe!

Utter hypocrisy, but I don't expect them to see that through their green or blue specs, even though they will continue to languish in the low to middling regions of European football for as long as their selfishness lasts.

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1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

The introduction of the Premier League in the 70s was primarily down to trying to raise the level of competition. The OF were winning everything in sight (particularly Celtic). The big difference back then was that gate money was split and thus the money was more evenly shared. Couple that with more restriction on contracts it meant that clubs could hold onto key players longer. The OF didn't cherry-pick players from other Scottish clubs as easily as they had previously with these clubs now enjoying the proceeds from twice as many games against Celtic & Rangers. Indeed Aberdeen reportedly paid higher wages than Rangers in any case. 

Even tho' the split gates were done away with in the early 80s it probably had created the climate where Aberdeen & Dundee Utd could challenge and surpass the OF on the field. Once tho' keeping the proceeds from home games eventually kicked in, clubs seriously challenging the OF dropped off. Since then the OF have won every league championship. Lion's share of gate money, TV rights, European cup money.

The irony being the very thing the smaller "four times a season" top tier was introduced for now produces the complete opposite effect.

I was looking back, yesterday, at the leagues around the mid 80s. Trying to put my finger on what changed to stop the challenge to the OF. Couldn't work it out. The change of gate receipts happened before my time (in Scotland) so was I was unaware. Makes perfect sense now.

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21 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

I did and it mentions nothing, complete waste of time effort and money

I have just finished reading it and I guess like a lot of reports it covers where we are. But I think the important thing in it is that we are being asked to give our ideas of how best we can live with this until( hopefully) a vaccine is developed.


Nobody yet has a magic bullet for this and we can’t stay cooped up forever.

 

 

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Holland update 

Confirmed: No champion for the Eredivisie 

Ajax straight into Champions league, AZ playoff

Feyenoord, PSV and Willem II Into Europa League

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from the beeb website:

The SPFL says an inquiry it ordered into Dundee's vote on the resolution to end the lower leagues has found "no evidence of improper behaviour".

quelle surprise! (hope that's spelt right Barney!)

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3 minutes ago, JAGSMAN1968 said:

from the beeb website:

The SPFL says an inquiry it ordered into Dundee's vote on the resolution to end the lower leagues has found "no evidence of improper behaviour".

quelle surprise! (hope that's spelt right Barney!)

An inquiry, by whom?

The SPFL perhaps??

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1 hour ago, JAGSMAN1968 said:

from the beeb website:

The SPFL says an inquiry it ordered into Dundee's vote on the resolution to end the lower leagues has found "no evidence of improper behaviour".

quelle surprise! (hope that's spelt right Barney!)

Phew! That's a relief!

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1 hour ago, Emsca said:

An inquiry, by whom?

The SPFL perhaps??

Naw, they asked Dundee FC to look into it!

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Rangers have - "alongside other clubs" - requested an SPFL general meeting to consider calling an independent inquiry into the league's handling of the vote on ending the lower-league season.

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Just now, jagfox said:

Deloitte

Are they, by any chance, the SPFL auditors as well?

Wouldn't be the first big accounting firm, allegedly, to "play nice" in order to keep a lucrative engagement.

Of course they may well actually be independent, but still will be earning a fee for their services.

 

Nothing to see here - move along.....

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