What if they shut down the season?

[javeajag]

2 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

If you’re thinking about waiting for a vaccine in a years time , the answer is yes , football isn’t any different from the Travel Business, Aircraft business , Hotel Groups etc ,  somehow we’ve got to get the economy going again or we’re going to have a lot of bankrupt countries.

The govt is already planning on how to re open the economy for the not complicated reason that most  small businesses and individuals can’t survive more than 3/4 months of the current situation....there will come a point when the effects of a prolonged economic depression and the resulting hardship and poverty also have their health consequences ....until a vaccine / treatment is developed we have to live with the virus which can’t mean a lockdown forever ...if you look at Spain by the end of June if there four phase plan works out bars, restaurants and hotels will be open and operating at 30% capacity .....if there is no football revenue here  in the next 4/6 months there will be very few football clubs but there will be bars in the Rhine and footballers in Sweden 

[Norgethistle]

6 minutes ago, javeajag said:

The govt is already planning on how to re open the economy for the not complicated reason that most  small businesses and individuals can’t survive more than 3/4 months of the current situation....there will come a point when the effects of a prolonged economic depression and the resulting hardship and poverty also have their health consequences ....until a vaccine / treatment is developed we have to live with the virus which can’t mean a lockdown forever ...if you look at Spain by the end of June if there four phase plan works out bars, restaurants and hotels will be open and operating at 30% capacity .....if there is no football revenue here  in the next 4/6 months there will be very few football clubs but there will be bars in the Rhine and footballers in Sweden 

Swedish League has been postponed till August 15th at the earliest 

[javeajag]

Just now, Norgethistle said:

Swedish League has been postponed till August 15th at the earliest 

There will be football in Sweden this year.

[Norgethistle]

4 minutes ago, javeajag said:

There will be football in Sweden this year.

Have you read Svenska Dagbladet or Aftonbladet recently?  The local papers are doubtful and have stated they will only start if social distancing ends, as they will not be played behind closed doors.

Playing from August (if started) till start of November they would have to play either 30 or 15 games  in 12 weeks. They should have started a month ago

[javeajag]

11 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Swedish League has been postponed till August 15th at the earliest 

Are they not due to start 14 June ?

[javeajag]

3 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Have you read Svenska Dagbladet or Aftonbladet recently?  The local papers are doubtful and have stated they will only start if social distancing ends, as they will not be played behind closed doors.

Playing from August (if started) till start of November they would have to play either 30 or 15 games  in 12 weeks. They should have started a month ago

But to be clear the current position  - it may change - is that that the league starts on June 14 ?

[Norgethistle]

17 minutes ago, javeajag said:

But to be clear the current position  - it may change - is that that the league starts on June 14 ?

No August 15th earliest

I think you’ve got June 14th as the date when Sweden hope to open its borders by

Edited May 2, 2020 by Norgethistle

[Norgethistle]

9 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Are they not due to start 14 June ?

The mid summer break is normally around then

[jlsarmy]

1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

Having the economy going, will mean getting factories and retail operating again at a lower level with strict control, currently the machine shops I use in UK that are still open (as doing essential work for O&G) have had to split shifts, go from 1 shift to 3 and 5 to 7 days to ensure they have 2 meters between operators at any time. That’s on top of furloughing folk. Others that either can’t have the distance or are not classed as essential are closed.

The social distancing I would argue isn’t really working, you’ve got people waiting outside to get into the shop , inside people are totally oblivious.

Re Companies working at a lower capacity, margins are cut but unfortunately fixed costs like rent , utilities stay the same which in a lot of cases means companies running at a loss .

The furlough scheme is stopping next month which is going to mean mass unemployment as businesses can’t afford to keep them .

 

[Pinhead]

11 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

The social distancing I would argue isn’t really working, you’ve got people waiting outside to get into the shop , inside people are totally oblivious.

Re Companies working at a lower capacity, margins are cut but unfortunately fixed costs like rent , utilities stay the same which in a lot of cases means companies running at a loss .

The furlough scheme is stopping next month which is going to mean mass unemployment as businesses can’t afford to keep them .

 

Been extended to the end of June now

[Jaggernaut]

12 hours ago, allyo said:

What I struggle to understand is why a famously cash strapped organisation has to spend apparently 300,000 to 400,000 pounds a year employing someone in a position which appears to be largely administrative and with very little authority 

In my opinion, the best decision the SPFL could take for the benefit of all the clubs would be to sack Doncaster and divide his salary among the clubs, especially now. In many people's  view he is little more than a parasite, who will sit by and watch if some teams go bust, and make pronouncements. Whatever happens, as long as he continues to receive his grotesque salary, it will be judged "best for the game."

When it gets nearer the time for the game to resume, appoint somebody more competent (indeed, question: what has he ever done to show that he is competent?) on a quarter of the salary. Many capable people would be happy to do the job.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Jaggernaut

[scotty]

11 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

When it gets nearer the time for the game to resume, appoint somebody more competent (indeed, question: what has he ever done to show that he is competent?) on a quarter of the salary. Many capable people would be happy to do the job.

Maybe, just maybe, when we do come out of this, one of the things which will come out of it will be a look at salary distribution. CEOs getting paid 10+ times the average wage of their workforce surely can't remain the normal. There is talk of the new normal we all have to get used to. (and in this dream the two arse cheeks amalgamate to enter the new junior league)

[Lenziejag]

7 hours ago, Pinhead said:

Been extended to the end of June now

That’s probably what he means as we are now in May.

[eljaggo]

Yesterday's Sportsound interview of Doncaster was revealing and showed him to be adept at controlling the discussion, albeit aided by Richard Gordon's ineptitude.  There was endless, fruitless and completely irrelevant discussion about loans and advances. But it seems clear from yesterday's programme that the SPFL bullied the clubs into accepting that the SPFL's option of ending the season was the only way for clubs to get the remaining cash.

It was suggested by the ex-Hearts player (can't remember his name) in the studio that money could be paid out now based on current placings, and if the season was completed later, and placings changed, adjustments could be made. The amounts involved are very small - less than £2m in total for the lower three leagues before the end of season payments, and so final placings adjustments would be even smaller. 

The SPFL have to negotiate refunds to TV companies and other sponsors because of the shortened season, and I suspect that Doncaster wanted an easy fix for the league end to allow them to focus on these negotations. 

Doncaster has been too smart for the clubs so far, and has managed to set the agenda and divide and rule, but I suspect Ann Budge may have the final say.  Who knows what Rangers have up their sleeve.

Edited May 3, 2020 by eljaggo

[jaf]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/fearful-britons-remain-strongly-opposed-to-lifting-lockdown/ar-BB13wwpa?ocid=spartandhp

I fear that ultimately this will be a political decision.

 

[jaf]

2 minutes ago, eljaggo said:

Yesterday's Sportsound interview of Doncaster was revealing and showed him to be adept at controlling the discussion, albeit aided by Richard Gordon's ineptitude.  There was endless, fruitless and completely irrelevant discussion about loans and advances. But it seems clear from yesterday's programme that the SPFL bullied the clubs into accepting that the SPFL's option of ending the season was the only way for clubs to get the remaining cash.

It was suggested by the ex-Hearts player (can't remember his name) in the studio that money could be paid out now based on current placings, and if the season was completed later, and placings changed, adjustments could be made. The amounts involved are very small - less that £2m in total for the lower three leagues before the end of season payments, and so final placings adjustments would be even smaller. 

The SPFL have to negotiate refunds to TV companies and other sponsors because of the shortened season, and I suspect that Doncaster wanted an easy fix for the league end to allow them to focus on these negotations. 

Doncaster has been too smart for the clubs so far, and has managed to divide and rule, but I suspect Ann Budge may have the final say.  Who knows what Rangers have up their sleeve.

To be fair to Doncaster, he is absolutely right about the loans option. It is utter nonsense to suggest otherwise, and perhaps Rangers should be demanding an investigation into who gave them that advice than into SPFL.  

I put on this forum about 70 pages ago when loans were first mentioned, how ridiculous a proposition that was. Even our own legal advice conceded that personal guarantees may need offered by football club chairmen. Have the money with no risk to your personal wealth, or have your money with no risk to your personal wealth - really, what do you expect people to choose.

It is a technical point, and not every football fan nor media pundit will grasp it, but you might have hoped the chairmen of Hearts and Rangers would. It seems not.

The whole loans debate probably suits SPFL as it has focussed the attention away from the areas they have done poorly in all of this. In saying loans were not the solution, I believe however they were perfectly correct, even if they could have communicated it better.

 

[laukat]

25 minutes ago, jaf said:

To be fair to Doncaster, he is absolutely right about the loans option. It is utter nonsense to suggest otherwise, and perhaps Rangers should be demanding an investigation into who gave them that advice than into SPFL.  

I put on this forum about 70 pages ago when loans were first mentioned, how ridiculous a proposition that was. Even our own legal advice conceded that personal guarantees may need offered by football club chairmen. Have the money with no risk to your personal wealth, or have your money with no risk to your personal wealth - really, what do you expect people to choose.

It is a technical point, and not every football fan nor media pundit will grasp it, but you might have hoped the chairmen of Hearts and Rangers would. It seems not.

The whole loans debate probably suits SPFL as it has focussed the attention away from the areas they have done poorly in all of this. In saying loans were not the solution, I believe however they were perfectly correct, even if they could have communicated it better.

Bit in bold is bang on the money.

The SPFL have done a number of things wrong and the QA's released by Murdoch MacLennan has so many holes in it. The media is chasing sevco's smokescreen when a decent journalist would be asking the SPFL board and Doncaster in particular to give answers to the following:

1. The option presented could have been altered to state that no relegation would be enacted or that reconstruction would be part of the deal. Why wasn't that at least put forward as an alternative option to vote on?

2. Why did they organise a vote which had an amibigous deadline?

3. Do they seriously believe it was a good idea to release the results before all teams had voted? What legal advice did they take to say this was an appropriate action?

4. The SPFL  QA's state Doncaster spoke with Nelms after Dundee cast their vote and before they changed their mind. How can that be argued to be good procedure?

5. The SPFL state clubs had up to 28 days to vote so why were they in rush to get Dundee's vote on on Friday evening? Surely normal practice would be to allow 28 days to expire and then whatever is returned is the final tally with absent votes counting as a no vote? Why did Neil Doncaster have to phone Nelms on Friday evening?

6. The SPFL QA's admit they made a basic error in communication by not expressing regret to us and Stranraer. How did an organisation meant to act in the clubs best interests fail to even acknowledge they had damaged 2 of their clubs? Who's responsibility was it to review the media release and why are they still in a job?

7. Why are we paying Neil Doncaters nearly £400k per year (almost 3 times the prime ministers salary) when he cannot organise a vote or release a competent statement to the media? If money is so tight for clubs why not sack Doncaster and redeploy his salary to the clubs?

[scotty]

15 minutes ago, laukat said:

Bit in bold is bang on the money.

The SPFL have done a number of things wrong and the QA's released by Murdoch MacLennan has so many holes in it. The media is chasing sevco's smokescreen when a decent journalist would be asking the SPFL board and Doncaster in particular to give answers to the following:

1. The option presented could have been altered to state that no relegation would be enacted or that reconstruction would be part of the deal. Why wasn't that at least put forward as an alternative option to vote on?

2. Why did they organise a vote which had an amibigous deadline?

3. Do they seriously believe it was a good idea to release the results before all teams had voted? What legal advice did they take to say this was an appropriate action?

4. The SPFL  QA's state Doncaster spoke with Nelms after Dundee cast their vote and before they changed their mind. How can that be argued to be good procedure?

5. The SPFL state clubs had up to 28 days to vote so why were they in rush to get Dundee's vote on on Friday evening? Surely normal practice would be to allow 28 days to expire and then whatever is returned is the final tally with absent votes counting as a no vote? Why did Neil Doncaster have to phone Nelms on Friday evening?

6. The SPFL QA's admit they made a basic error in communication by not expressing regret to us and Stranraer. How did an organisation meant to act in the clubs best interests fail to even acknowledge they had damaged 2 of their clubs? Who's responsibility was it to review the media release and why are they still in a job?

7. Why are we paying Neil Doncaters nearly £400k per year (almost 3 times the prime ministers salary) when he cannot organise a vote or release a competent statement to the media? If money is so tight for clubs why not sack Doncaster and redeploy his salary to the clubs?

And the answer is ..... "So, we have all along told clubs and the media that there is no provision in the leagues rules to allow us to give out loans to individual clubs. And will you stop asking us about loans!"

[Auld Jag]

The Alloa chairman on sportsound this afternoon said they are looking at 3 outcomes for season 20/21. Playing with reduced crowds, playing behind closed doors and no play at all. He also said it is interesting to hear what other countries are doing, but it is irrelevant to what happens in Scotland.

[jaf]

13 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

The Alloa chairman on sportsound this afternoon said they are looking at 3 outcomes for season 20/21. Playing with reduced crowds, playing behind closed doors and no play at all. He also said it is interesting to hear what other countries are doing, but it is irrelevant to what happens in Scotland.

I think no play at all is a nightmare scenario. People aren't going to miss football, they are going to find other things to do with their time, and almost certainly once the habit is broken for that length of time, you will lose many fans to the game.

[Auld Jag]

3 minutes ago, jaf said:

I think no play at all is a nightmare scenario. People aren't going to miss football, they are going to find other things to do with their time, and almost certainly once the habit is broken for that length of time, you will lose many fans to the game.

Agree.  I think there will also be a lot of players lost to the game as well.I was surprised to hear him say that Alloa could survive without play for a season. 

[javeajag]

23 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

The Alloa chairman on sportsound this afternoon said they are looking at 3 outcomes for season 20/21. Playing with reduced crowds, playing behind closed doors and no play at all. He also said it is interesting to hear what other countries are doing, but it is irrelevant to what happens in Scotland.

The fact that he’s even thinking about no play shows a worrying complacency all too prevalent in Scottish football .....can alloa survive that ?

[Auld Jag]

4 minutes ago, javeajag said:

The fact that he’s even thinking about no play shows a worrying complacency all too prevalent in Scottish football .....can alloa survive that ?

He said they could survive a season without football.

[Dick Dastardly]

19 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

He said they could survive a season without football.

I guess that they will have no, or very few players on the books and probably a very small coaching staff. With the plastic pitch, overheads are likely to be low and they will have had a higher prize money than was budgeted for this season. If they were OK financially before the lockdown, Alloa might be one of the clubs in  a better position to survive.

[Auld Jag]

3 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

I guess that they will have no, or very few players on the books and probably a very small coaching staff. With the plastic pitch, overheads are likely to be low and they will have had a higher prize money than was budgeted for this season. If they were OK financially before the lockdown, Alloa might be one of the clubs in  a better position to survive.

Most/all their players contracts up 9th June he said. But also said they have offered all players on their books new contracts.