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The Last Three Years


Jaggernaut
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Just checking on some old scribblings, and noticed that almost exactly three years ago Doolan scored his 100th and 101st goals for us as we beat Ross County 2-0, and moved into the top 6 in the top division. Heady heights! Then,...... the crash.

It remains something of a mystery to me why our results after the split were so goddam awful..... like those of a team that had already been relegated and the players didn't give a monkeys. In fact I still think that most of the players for one reason or another simply downed tools and stopped trying, but the question is why did they do that? And why did the rot continue during the following season, and then the season after that..... Well, I suppose the last two seasons can be explained more easily, but I'll always look on that final quarter of the season in the top 6 and the season after it as a real black period, almost inexplicable. It was as if the entire club felt they didn't belong up there, and took the appropriate course of action to get us back down to where we are now! Not deliberately, of course, but maybe subconsciously? (Remember, every team in the SPL at least occasionally wins against the erse cheeks; we don't, and go into every game knowing it.)

 

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I don’t agree with that we ‘downed tools’ after reaching the top 6.

we played Hearts first game and we drew, mainly thanks to a soft penalty and red card given against us. 

The next week we played some of the best football in years in a first half against Rangers but unfortunately only scored once When well on top and we were unfortunate to lose an injury time goal to lose the game. I think everyone was gutted that day.

then St J away, where we lost 1-0 to a penalty, but this confirmed their European spot and I think confirmed us as 6th.

For the celtic game I was on holiday, so never saw the game and not sure of our performance.

Aberdeen was an embarrassment and yes it did look like we did down tools that day, but we had a strange team picked with the likes of Amoo at right back & Ridgers in goal and we got torn apart and they looked like they’d score every time they attacked.

 

So in my opinion we played until our position was sealed, and maybe then it looked to some that we ‘downed tools’ but reaching Top 6 should have had no bearing on how we performed the next season.

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It was different that season top six being the target as opposed to avoiding the relegation/pay off spots but the same mentality came into play.

After securing safety at Tynecastle we gifted County the final game. That proved to be costly in terms of potential final place revenue. The following season after safety we got turned over 1-4 by a horrendous Killie outfit. Shortly after that we evidently came very close to signing Lyle Taylor. Would higher placement revenue have given us the latitude to get that deal over the line? Next up we missed out on the top six by a single goal (game 33 at Dingwall). Instead we ended up ninth behind Dundee and ICT thanks largely to losing to that pair at Firhill immediately after the cut. After that we reached safety at Rugby Pk but once again failed to win a post safety match.

I believe the template for disappointing end of season results was well and truly set before we even kicked a ball yon top six season. Up to that time I would say about my only criticism of Archie was allowing his teams to switch off at the run ins after achieving a target. So our largely poor post top six results shouldn't have come as a surprise.  A soft underbelly?

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On 4/8/2020 at 10:53 AM, lady-isobel-barnett said:

It was different that season top six being the target as opposed to avoiding the relegation/pay off spots but the same mentality came into play.

After securing safety at Tynecastle we gifted County the final game. That proved to be costly in terms of potential final place revenue. The following season after safety we got turned over 1-4 by a horrendous Killie outfit. Shortly after that we evidently came very close to signing Lyle Taylor. Would higher placement revenue have given us the latitude to get that deal over the line? Next up we missed out on the top six by a single goal (game 33 at Dingwall). Instead we ended up ninth behind Dundee and ICT thanks largely to losing to that pair at Firhill immediately after the cut. After that we reached safety at Rugby Pk but once again failed to win a post safety match.

I believe the template for disappointing end of season results was well and truly set before we even kicked a ball yon top six season. Up to that time I would say about my only criticism of Archie was allowing his teams to switch off at the run ins after achieving a target. So our largely poor post top six results shouldn't have come as a surprise.  A soft underbelly?

Is that a different approach for any other club or any other person/ team that has a target to achieve ? It is natural to relax once your target has been achieved 

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We had no recognised full backs for I think two of the games.  So there were mitigating circumstances   

In addition we were all to blame. We celebrated like we had won the league when we reached top six.  Some players clearly thought they had achieved something at that moment   

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Our record against these same teams was terrible all season.  We had an amazing record against teams below us.

Celtic and particularly Aberdeen were embarrassing, but otherwise it was business as usual. 

Not saying that's okay, but we did always seem to be more up for the games that were against who we saw as direct rivals. And I do think that psychologically we never felt that we belonged in the top six.

One thing you can't accuse Archie's team of was bottling it in real crunch games. Morton in 13, Hearts in 14, Motherwell and Ross County in 15, Killie in 16, Motherwell in 17. Even Dundee in 18 (though obviously the play off went all wrong).

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5 hours ago, allyo said:

Our record against these same teams was terrible all season.  We had an amazing record against teams below us.

Celtic and particularly Aberdeen were embarrassing, but otherwise it was business as usual. 

Not saying that's okay, but we did always seem to be more up for the games that were against who we saw as direct rivals. And I do think that psychologically we never felt that we belonged in the top six.

One thing you can't accuse Archie's team of was bottling it in real crunch games. Morton in 13, Hearts in 14, Motherwell and Ross County in 15, Killie in 16, Motherwell in 17. Even Dundee in 18 (though obviously the play off went all wrong).

Sorry but that doesn't totally stand up to scrutiny, Allyo.

In 17-18 alone we bottled it in both games v Hamilton at NDP (0-0 and 1-2), then at home v Killie before Clarke took over (0-2), Dundee at home (1-2) and Ross County away (0-4), and as you mention, both play-off games.

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4 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Understandable, but it didn't seem to affect other clubs in the same boat, who routinely beat us post split. 

Is that the case - my memory is hazy, but something in the back of my mind thinks that prior to that season we lost very few post split matches.

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2 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

Sorry but that doesn't totally stand up to scrutiny, Allyo.

In 17-18 alone we bottled it in both games v Hamilton at NDP (0-0 and 1-2), then at home v Killie before Clarke took over (0-2), Dundee at home (1-2) and Ross County away (0-4), and as you mention, both play-off games.

I think it partly stands up to scrutiny Barney, but I'd accept that it all went wrong in 17-18. The Fir Park game in the autumn that season I recall as particularly excruciating 

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2 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Is that the case - my memory is hazy, but something in the back of my mind thinks that prior to that season we lost very few post split matches.

That's true, but in each case only until survival was assured and then it all went to pot.

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2 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Is that the case - my memory is hazy, but something in the back of my mind thinks that prior to that season we lost very few post split matches.

My point was more that once we crossed the safety threshold/reached top 6 we never won a single game. 2-3 H v County, 1-1 A v Accies, 1-4 H v Killie, 0-0 A v 'Well, 3-3 A v Dundee Utd, 2-2 H v Accies. Then after we were assured a top 6 finish we drew one game and lost five.

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58 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

My point was more that once we crossed the safety threshold/reached top 6 we never won a single game. 2-3 H v County, 1-1 A v Accies, 1-4 H v Killie, 0-0 A v 'Well, 3-3 A v Dundee Utd, 2-2 H v Accies. Then after we were assured a top 6 finish we drew one game and lost five.

You are probably right, but I guess we would also need to look at whether those other teams needed a result.  I think that Killie, at least, needed a result - can’t remember what for. And Accies must have.

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