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Why are we in this Position


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18 hours ago, Dark Passenger said:

Agreed.

Another point I'd make is that I'm far from happy to see the current Chairman back at the helm. I said before - and my position remains unchanged - that her presence could suffocate the chances of fan ownership succeeding. But you could argue that the previous board's machinations have ultimately cemented her position, at least in the short term.

And that's partly because she's really lucky to have been able to cede control of club communications to a competent operator this time around (hope that's evidence of lessons having been learned). That's one appointment I'd congratulate Beattie and co on.

We have only 2 choices.

- Allow the control of the club and ground to be with the current chairperson at behalf of a company that barely exists.

- Push the agenda of fan ownership, constructing it to suit the majority (Not TFE) of fans requirements, whether that be 100% owned or opening up for say 49% external investment that has to be OUR call not TFE, not Goodwin, Not 3BC. That "Model" has to come from the ground up, not be dictated to from a single party.

 

I know what option I would and will take

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1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

No what Im stating is that despite the PR - we are not in this position because of the SPFL - we are here because of decisions taken over the last Three Years both on the Park and Off it - Im stating we have lacked direction and a cohesive strategy for some time - the Current Manager is at the end of the Line - the problems were well set in before he was appointed - Relegation Zone Three Seasons on the Trot - Three Different Managers - it suggests we have issues beyond who the Manager is 

As for your infantile petty insults - Grow Up - your not a Wee Boy  

My Solution - we have enough competent people who have run Businesses within our Fan Base - what we have clearly isnt Working - we are going to have to have change - the next 12 Months will be make or break for the Club      

 

"We are going to have to change."

Once again, JJ, please give us your vision of the "direction" that we have lacked along with your vision of the "cohesive strategy" that you repeatedly mention. You must have ideas, given your almost continual tirades and claims that changes are needed.

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Well it sounds like the plan is to get the best possible people with the right vision for the club involved in fan ownership so that it can be successful.

I don't think anyone would argue with that.

I still think being relegated after an incomplete season is dodgy and if our current chairman didn't challenge that, and just came out and said "yep fair enough, we brought it all on ourselves, we deserve to go down" she'd be  (rightly) crucified.

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1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

No what Im stating is that despite the PR - we are not in this position because of the SPFL - we are here because of decisions taken over the last Three Years both on the Park and Off it - Im stating we have lacked direction and a cohesive strategy for some time - the Current Manager is at the end of the Line - the problems were well set in before he was appointed - Relegation Zone Three Seasons on the Trot - Three Different Managers - it suggests we have issues beyond who the Manager is 

As for your infantile petty insults - Grow Up - your not a Wee Boy  

My Solution - we have enough competent people who have run Businesses within our Fan Base - what we have clearly isnt Working - we are going to have to have change - the next 12 Months will be make or break for the Club      

 

Ok - so your "solution" is to put a call out to the Thistle support asking competant people (but only those that have run their own business) to come forward, join the Board and takeover the running of the Club? Is that correct?

 

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1 hour ago, Jaggernaut said:

"We are going to have to change."

Once again, JJ, please give us your vision of the "direction" that we have lacked along with your vision of the "cohesive strategy" that you repeatedly mention. You must have ideas, given your almost continual tirades and claims that changes are needed.

Ok - We need to go to the Fan Base and appoint a New interim Board  of experienced people with required Skill Sets in Business - very simliar set up after STJ 

-  first and foremost the Companies they have Run have to have been Profitable - bit Brutal but in Business thats an indicative measure of Competence    

They would Sign Up for Two Years - they in turn then agree a Road Map to Fan Ownership - with Key Dates - Targets - Strategies - in conjunction with various interested parties - the Working Groups are frankly far too much like talking shops - too many and far too Woolly  

Meantime the Board  focus on running PTFC - only PTFC -  Not the Academy - Community Trust - Womans Football - they take second place  or are simply dumped - only PTFC - getting Money in the Door - Focus on Winning Games -we have to get back to basics 

At the end of Year one - there are Elections as to Fan Ownership - and the Model starts to evolve over the next 12 Months - with a transition period  over an agreed date from the sitting Board to whatever form of Ownership is voted for by the Fans 

I would also say that my preferred Choice is a Hybrid of Fan Representation and a Traditional Board fior at least Three Years   ( or longer ) 

Over riding this would be a Board of Trustees - some former Directors-  plus some High Profile Jags fans eg Lord Kelvin people with proven Business or Public Track Records 

All of this can be done from our own Fan Base - I see no need on any level for Non Thistle Fans to be on the Board  of PTFC  or involved in any capacity - that frankly is an insult to our Fans 

We have been on a downward spiral for Three Years and I think we need to change who and how we are Running the Club to change that  

 

 

  

Edited by Jordanhill Jag
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53 minutes ago, Emsca said:

Ok - so your "solution" is to put a call out to the Thistle support asking competant people (but only those that have run their own business) to come forward, join the Board and takeover the running of the Club? Is that correct?

 

Partly and in the short term - Ive laid as I think this is needed 

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1 hour ago, allyo said:

Well it sounds like the plan is to get the best possible people with the right vision for the club involved in fan ownership so that it can be successful.

I don't think anyone would argue with that.

I still think being relegated after an incomplete season is dodgy and if our current chairman didn't challenge that, and just came out and said "yep fair enough, we brought it all on ourselves, we deserve to go down" she'd be  (rightly) crucified.

This is true - however at No point is any acceptance that in the main this has been created  by PTFC over a Three Year Period     

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58 minutes ago, Emsca said:

Ok - so your "solution" is to put a call out to the Thistle support asking competant people (but only those that have run their own business) to come forward, join the Board and takeover the running of the Club? Is that correct?

 

….all of whom could have stepped forward and applied to join the Working Group to get involved early in the process?

And some did.

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9 minutes ago, jaf said:

….all of whom could have stepped forward and applied to join the Working Group to get involved early in the process?

And some did.

I think we are now beyond  Working Groups and we now need a Board to take us over the next Two Years - lots of people dont like Committees  and had massive reservations as to who was in Control of the Working Groups - this is about who is best suited to get PTFC moving forward  and at the same time delivering on Fan Ownership in a managed process that ensures we have longevity  

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22 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

If we do play 1st division football next year , there should be no pressure to go up straight away, we need to have a template which looks to the future not just 1 season, get an infrastructure in place that’s going to last for the next 10/15 yrs , get our Club known for giving players a chance or promoting youth .

Whether we’ve got the right personnel in place is another debate .

Totally agree

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56 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok - We need to go to the Fan Base and appoint a New interim Board  of experienced people with required Skill Sets in Business - very simliar set up after STJ 

-  first and foremost the Companies they have Run have to have been Profitable - bit Brutal but in Business thats an indicative measure of Competence    

They would Sign Up for Two Years - they in turn then agree a Road Map to Fan Ownership - with Key Dates - Targets - Strategies - in conjunction with various interested parties - the Working Groups are frankly far too much like talking shops - too many and far too Woolly  

Meantime the Board  focus on running PTFC - only PTFC -  Not the Academy - Community Trust - Womans Football - they take second place  or are simply dumped - only PTFC - getting Money in the Door - Focus on Winning Games -we have to get back to basics 

At the end of Year one - there are Elections as to Fan Ownership - and the Model starts to evolve over the next 12 Months - with a transition period  over an agreed date from the sitting Board to whatever form of Ownership is voted for by the Fans 

I would also say that my preferred Choice is a Hybrid of Fan Representation and a Traditional Board fior at least Three Years   ( or longer ) 

Over riding this would be a Board of Trustees - some former Directors-  plus some High Profile Jags fans eg Lord Kelvin people with proven Business or Public Track Records 

All of this can be done from our own Fan Base - I see no need on any level for Non Thistle Fans to be on the Board  of PTFC  or involved in any capacity - that frankly is an insult to our Fans 

We have been on a downward spiral for Three Years and I think we need to change who and how we are Running the Club to change that  

 

 

  

I dont disagree with any of this, if these people are out there and are prepared to give up their time and get involved. Not sure that they are but would genuinely be delighted to be proved wrong.

What happens with the current Board , Chief Exec etc?

Would the Board of Trustees be remunerated? Who decides who is on the Board of Trustees?  

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36 minutes ago, Emsca said:

I dont disagree with any of this, if these people are out there and are prepared to give up their time and get involved. Not sure that they are but would genuinely be delighted to be proved wrong.

What happens with the current Board , Chief Exec etc?

Would the Board of Trustees be remunerated? Who decides who is on the Board of Trustees?  

Well after Three Years on a downward Spiral - My View is that we need New People running the Club  - there will be enforced changes due to Economics 

No one apart from paid staff receives a remuneration - Board of Trustees - get external input - there are people external to the Club that would support us    - means we avoid the politics - key to that is get a really Good Chair for Trustees - let him or her decide has to be someone like Lord Kelvin or someone  of his stature - or Alan Foy CEO of SmartMetering PLC 

After that Trustee Board appoint the interim  Board for Two Years with a Written remit and Plan 

The key issue is that this cant be done via a Committee or pals of pals - you want Good people - you approach them - give a time limit to there involvement - and a clear remit 

We need change - otherwise we will simply continue as we are - you cant get relegated to the level we have and not make radical  change -it simply not sustainable  

 

Edited by Jordanhill Jag
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23 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

If we do play 1st division football next year , there should be no pressure to go up straight away, we need to have a template which looks to the future not just 1 season, get an infrastructure in place that’s going to last for the next 10/15 yrs , get our Club known for giving players a chance or promoting youth .

Whether we’ve got the right personnel in place is another debate .

That’s effectively a Colt team.

Just concentrate on giving youth a chance and not bother about winning 

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1 minute ago, Norgethistle said:

That’s effectively a Colt team.

Just concentrate on giving youth a chance and not bother about winning 

Never said that Norge , you can still win games with a mixture of 24/25 yr old and younger players.

When Jackie Mac started at our Club , had you heard of Stephen O’donnell , James Craigan , ATS , Balatoni, Muirhead etc 

IMO we’ve got to  start something that’s going to set us up for the future .

The BOD at Motherwell, Hamilton have basically told their football dept  that’s the road they’ve got to go down, whether our Board is strong enough or have the vision to do that is a different question.

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12 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Never said that Norge , you can still win games with a mixture of 24/25 yr old and younger players.

When Jackie Mac started at our Club , had you heard of Stephen O’donnell , James Craigan , ATS , Balatoni, Muirhead etc 

IMO we’ve got to  start something that’s going to set us up for the future .

The BOD at Motherwell, Hamilton have basically told their football dept  that’s the road they’ve got to go down, whether our Board is strong enough or have the vision to do that is a different question.

100 % agree that Jackie Mac took risks with Younger Unknown Players - did the same at Dundee Utd -

League One is where you give Young Players a chance - No more OF Loanees  

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53 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

100 % agree that Jackie Mac took risks with Younger Unknown Players - did the same at Dundee Utd -

League One is where you give Young Players a chance - No more OF Loanees  

I would strongly disagree. What we need to get rid of is the losing mentality. It doesn't matter if it is young or old players, if we play expansive entertaining football, or win 1-0 on the counter attack. The most important item to address is 3 years of losing more games than we win. PERIOD.

Lets start winning games. That is the top priority. Once we do that,  then introduce the youth players into a winning team. That will do more for Partick Thistle and for the players themselves. Put out a team of kids who get gubbed 5-0 every week by Cove/Clyde/Forfar and you will completely kill their careers before they start. 

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1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Well after Three Years on a downward Spiral - My View is that we need New People running the Club  - there will be enforced changes due to Economics 

No one apart from paid staff receives a remuneration - Board of Trustees - get external input - there are people external to the Club that would support us    - means we avoid the politics - key to that is get a really Good Chair for Trustees - let him or her decide has to be someone like Lord Kelvin or someone  of his stature - or Alan Foy CEO of SmartMetering PLC 

After that Trustee Board appoint the interim  Board for Two Years with a Written remit and Plan 

The key issue is that this cant be done via a Committee or pals of pals - you want Good people - you approach them - give a time limit to there involvement - and a clear remit 

We need change - otherwise we will simply continue as we are - you cant get relegated to the level we have and not make radical  change -it simply not sustainable  

 

Alan Foy a Jags fan?

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12 minutes ago, jaggy said:

Alan Foy a Jags fan?

Certainly Thistle Minded and has always taken tables at any events - his Brother  was defo a Jags Fan and Alan used to have an Ambassador Package at Thistle  - But he is of the calibre to pull together a Trustee Board ? or Lord Kelvin who is a Jags Fan - there will be others 

Edited by Jordanhill Jag
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Let’s cut the loan ties to the Ugly Sisters. End of. These players don’t play for the Jags badge.

Get some young players from the juniors like Erskine & Doolan, combined with some of our academy players. Ditch the old carthorses. Kids v Experience? We got this. 

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14 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Certainly Thistle Minded and has always taken tables at any events - his Brother  was defo a Jags Fan and Alan used to have an Ambassador Package at Thistle  - But he is of the calibre to pull together a Trustee Board ? or Lord Kelvin who is a Jags Fan - there will be others 

So are you just throwing in names or do you have any idea that people might be interested?

As is often the case, I'm just not really sure what you're pitching here. Your own musings or something else?

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2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Well after Three Years on a downward Spiral - My View is that we need New People running the Club  - there will be enforced changes due to Economics 

No one apart from paid staff receives a remuneration - Board of Trustees - get external input - there are people external to the Club that would support us    - means we avoid the politics - key to that is get a really Good Chair for Trustees - let him or her decide has to be someone like Lord Kelvin or someone  of his stature - or Alan Foy CEO of SmartMetering PLC 

After that Trustee Board appoint the interim  Board for Two Years with a Written remit and Plan 

The key issue is that this cant be done via a Committee or pals of pals - you want Good people - you approach them - give a time limit to there involvement - and a clear remit 

We need change - otherwise we will simply continue as we are - you cant get relegated to the level we have and not make radical  change -it simply not sustainable  

 

Jim, I don't really disagree with most of this and previous posts but there is one point I was slightly confused by. In the above post you state get external input but in another post you say:

"All of this can be done from our own Fan Base - I see no need on any level for Non Thistle Fans to be on the Board  of PTFC  or involved in any capacity - that frankly is an insult to our Fans"

I don't know if I have misunderstood but would be grateful if you clarify just where you are on non Thistle fans involvement - thanks.

A more general point is that people generally look at business experience (making a profit, etc) as key and whilst I would want a successful business person rather than an unsuccessful one I do think we tend to overlook those who have spent a career in the Public Sector. There are many people who have successfully managed projects in terms of being within budget and on time, led teams, etc and should not be overlooked just because they can't point to a dividend to the shareholders.

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26 minutes ago, sandy said:

Let’s cut the loan ties to the Ugly Sisters. End of. These players don’t play for the Jags badge.

Get some young players from the juniors like Erskine & Doolan, combined with some of our academy players. Ditch the old carthorses. Kids v Experience? We got this. 

So you are happy to get gubbed every week providing we play with kids from the juniors ?

Personally I’m fed up of losing. I just want a winning team and I’mnot much bothered what age they are or where they came from

Edited by Dick Dastardly
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42 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

Jim, I don't really disagree with most of this and previous posts but there is one point I was slightly confused by. In the above post you state get external input but in another post you say:

"All of this can be done from our own Fan Base - I see no need on any level for Non Thistle Fans to be on the Board  of PTFC  or involved in any capacity - that frankly is an insult to our Fans"

I don't know if I have misunderstood but would be grateful if you clarify just where you are on non Thistle fans involvement - thanks.

A more general point is that people generally look at business experience (making a profit, etc) as key and whilst I would want a successful business person rather than an unsuccessful one I do think we tend to overlook those who have spent a career in the Public Sector. There are many people who have successfully managed projects in terms of being within budget and on time, led teams, etc and should not be overlooked just because they can't point to a dividend to the shareholders.

External input was to recruit a Board of Trustees  only

- in the short term its my view that hands on experience of running a Profitable Business is required - we need direct hard experience when we are in the trenches next Season  

In the long term as Fans take over the Club and with the right Controls put in place the detailed skill levels become less stringent 

Also a Board of Trustees as Ive suggested would be recruited from both Private and Public Sector 

If you think how Fergus structured Celtic - a PLC Board ( who are defacto trustees ) with an Operations Board - it provides checks & balance - hence there financial stability compared to Rangers   

 

 

Edited by Jordanhill Jag
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8 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

External input was to recruit a Board of Trustees  only

- in the short term its my view that hands on experience of running a Profitable Business is required - we need direct hard experience when we are in the trenches next Season  

In the long term as Fans take over the Club and with the right Controls put in place the detailed skill levels become less stringent 

 

 

Thanks Jim that clarifies things.

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1 hour ago, Dick Dastardly said:

So you are happy to get gubbed every week providing we play with kids from the juniors ?

Personally I’m fed up of losing. I just want a winning team and I’mnot much bothered what age they are or where they came from

Did I say anywhere I was happy to be gubbed? No.

Did we get gubbed with Erskine & Doolan? 
Er no! 

The recent recipe of old carthorses and some younger loan players has failed us. Time to put our faith back into an exciting young team who actually want to be proud of wearing the badge.

Edited by sandy
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