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Jordanhill Jag

Why are we in this Position

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7 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Or Reality - if you have a Counter Argument feel free to make it ? 

I dont think playing the Victim is the Thistle way - we are bottom of the league - we have been Shite for Three Seasons - Three different Managers - two with previously very good Track Records / so lets hear your reason as to why we are in this position - or is it all the SPFL Fault - or a Big Boy did it and Ran Away ?  

Instead of simply throwing out whys and demanding others to come up with the reason, why not let us hear yours?

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5 hours ago, Whitelees jag said:

Blame McCall, Caldwell, Archibald for the shite they have served up and some shocking signings. various boards Low,Beattie for terrible decisions....simple really..now lets move on.

Actually, that sums it up concisely and accurately.

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6 hours ago, jaf said:

More countries may yet follow. 

Or may not ......most so far are deciding the season is null and void as it could not be completed which is sensible and logical 

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12 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The blame always lies with the Manager - but the vast majority of Fans were delighted with his appiontment he was in a Promotion chasing spot with Ayr United - did he suddenly become a bad Manager overnight ?  

No. He was never much of a manager and his Thistle record is about average for his career, except for a fluke at Ayr. Wrong appointment at the wrong time in a list of wrong appointments at wrong times.

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5 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

But even these guys with business acumen made terrible blunders Sandy. The fact we had to sell Harkins and twaddle to stave off HMRC indicates near catastrophic decisions that got us into a position that we were even struggling to pay HMRC.  Furthermore mccall, maxwell and Donnelly all took pay cuts to help the club which They didn’t have to do.

not having a go Sandy but some of those board members could have unintentionally spelled the end of the club then, it was just luck it didn’t 

Do you think that maybe some of that financial stress came about by having to spend money on a 10,000 seated stadium to be promoted and then a couple of years later reversing that decision so that we got relegated ? 
 

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1 hour ago, McCall Out said:

No. He was never much of a manager and his Thistle record is about average for his career, except for a fluke at Ayr. Wrong appointment at the wrong time in a list of wrong appointments at wrong times.

We have been over this before but his record at a number of teams was above average eg Clydebank, Airdrie, Falkirk etc

his record at Thistle has been average, this season been poor which I hope will change 

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1 hour ago, Lenziejag said:

Do you think that maybe some of that financial stress came about by having to spend money on a 10,000 seated stadium to be promoted and then a couple of years later reversing that decision so that we got relegated ? 
 

Good point. Though some mistakes were undoubtedly made with managerial appointments as well

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This whole argument that "good" businessmen are the natural people to run football clubs has been disproved time and time again. Fair enough some of them have the skills and desire to be successfull in football. Just making profit and eventually selling out is one sign of a "good" business but it's not necessarily an indicator of a sustainable club. Neither is making large short-term profit from an inferior profit. Keeping a fan base happy and continuing to support the team is not always the same as keeping shareholders happy.

Edited by scotty

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2 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

We have been over this before but his record at a number of teams was above average eg Clydebank, Airdrie, Falkirk etc

his record at Thistle has been average, this season been poor which I hope will change 

2 of the three clubs you quote didn't exist after his reign. I hope he's not going for a hat-trick. Add in murky circumstances surrounding his departure from Queen's and Thistle (v1) and it is hardly a glowing CV.

Still at least you don't disagree about it being the wrong appointment at the wrong time.

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1 hour ago, McCall Out said:

2 of the three clubs you quote didn't exist after his reign. I hope he's not going for a hat-trick. Add in murky circumstances surrounding his departure from Queen's and Thistle (v1) and it is hardly a glowing CV.

Still at least you don't disagree about it being the wrong appointment at the wrong time.

On your McCall out thread your stats were dismissed as BS. McCalls points record across all clubs holds up against Lambies 

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3 hours ago, scotty said:

This whole argument that "good" businessmen are the natural people to run football clubs has been disproved time and time again. Fair enough some of them have the skills and desire to be successfull in football. Just making profit and eventually selling out is one sign of a "good" business but it's not necessarily an indicator of a sustainable club. Neither is making large short-term profit from an inferior profit. Keeping a fan base happy and continuing to support the team is not always the same as keeping shareholders happy.

A Football Club is a Business and everything you say is correct however the odds of having a successful Club without someone with Business Experience and a track record are slim 

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I think it's more important to find a route way through the CURRENT situation. The past is history and I'm bored of the same arguments/agenda coming back out ad infinitim. Who knows the hearts potential legal action may save us being relegated. If it doesn't we are where we are. We will have limited financial options no matter what. I'll sure we will survive. I hope we flourish. 

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2 hours ago, McCall Out said:

2 of the three clubs you quote didn't exist after his reign. I hope he's not going for a hat-trick. Add in murky circumstances surrounding his departure from Queen's and Thistle (v1) and it is hardly a glowing CV.

Still at least you don't disagree about it being the wrong appointment at the wrong time.

Any chance you could bring something new to the debate? 

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1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

On your McCall out thread your stats were dismissed as BS. McCalls points record across all clubs holds up against Lambies 

But the difference is that Lambie for what ever reason got better than average performance when at Thistle. McCall hasn't. He has been bang average and totally failed to get Thistle away from the bottom of the league, something which was totally acheivable. And before anyone says "Caldwell's shit players", they were not shit players. Most of them were playing shit, something which Caldwell and McCall failed to address, but most were able to play much better at other clubs and under other managers. 

I stand by my statement that if it wasn't for McCall we would not be in this mess.

As for bringing something new, what is there new to bring. The stats are there and won't change. He has been a liability and therefore the wrong appointment (from a chairman who buggered off a few weeks later) and at the wrong time (Caldwell should have gone earlier).

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5 hours ago, McCall Out said:

2 of the three clubs you quote didn't exist after his reign. I hope he's not going for a hat-trick. Add in murky circumstances surrounding his departure from Queen's and Thistle (v1) and it is hardly a glowing CV.

Still at least you don't disagree about it being the wrong appointment at the wrong time.

You know fine well as was pointed out before both Clydebank an Airdrieonians were bottom of the league and on the verge of extinction when he took over, he got Clydebank promotion and took a skint airdrie to the verge of promotion- he gave both of them an extra year of life. Incredibly you seem to suggest he was to blame for them teetering on the edge of extinction before he took over is that right? He also sponsored Clydebank games when they reformed as well as donating £500 to them at their fundraising night.

he took over a Queen of the south team bottom of the league and built a great team their with the likes of Stephen dobbie that got to a Scottish cup semi final one year and final the next. He didn’t leave under mysterious circumstances he left because the Partick Thistle managers post was vacant. So please stop rewriting history.

again no mention of the team he built at Falkirk..

the one point I agree with you is he has been very poor this season and should have done much better- however he totally rebuilt Ayr into a top of the championship challenging team in league one so I am prepared to give him the chance to do that with us.

if we fail at promotion then he is out 

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2 hours ago, McCall Out said:

But the difference is that Lambie for what ever reason got better than average performance when at Thistle. McCall hasn't. He has been bang average and totally failed to get Thistle away from the bottom of the league, something which was totally acheivable. And before anyone says "Caldwell's shit players", they were not shit players. Most of them were playing shit, something which Caldwell and McCall failed to address, but most were able to play much better at other clubs and under other managers. 

I stand by my statement that if it wasn't for McCall we would not be in this mess.

As for bringing something new, what is there new to bring. The stats are there and won't change. He has been a liability and therefore the wrong appointment (from a chairman who buggered off a few weeks later) and at the wrong time (Caldwell should have gone earlier).

McCalls signing of harkins and twaddle and his instancewe got a higher price from Dundee and Falkirk for them meant we could pay off HMRC and kept us actually in existence 10 years ago

you are wrong that mccall got us into the currenct mess. The club has been on a steep downward slope for 3 years, he has been in charge since September- so how can he be responsible for 3 years of a shambles. Yes he should have done better since last September but it’s impossible for him to be blamed for 3 years of a downward spiral Nd 3 years of awful signings 

besides we will never know if we would have been relegated under him - we did not play 36 games and were catching up on queens. We have been demoted not relegated I’m afraid 

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1 minute ago, Third Lanark said:

You know fine well as was pointed out before both Clydebank an Airdrieonians were bottom of the league and on the verge of extinction when he took over, he got Clydebank promotion and took a skint airdrie to the verge of promotion- he gave both of them an extra year of life. Incredibly you seem to suggest he was to blame for them teetering on the edge of extinction before he took over is that right? He also sponsored Clydebank games when they reformed as well as donating £500 to them at their fundraising night.

he took over a Queen of the south team bottom of the league and built a great team their with the likes of Stephen dobbie that got to a Scottish cup semi final one year and final the next. He didn’t leave under mysterious circumstances he left because the Partick Thistle managers post was vacant. So please stop rewriting history.

again no mention of the team he built at Falkirk..

the one point I agree with you is he has been very poor this season and should have done much better- however he totally rebuilt Ayr into a top of the championship challenging team in league one so I am prepared to give him the chance to do that with us.

if we fail at promotion then he is out 

If we do play 1st division football next year , there should be no pressure to go up straight away, we need to have a template which looks to the future not just 1 season, get an infrastructure in place that’s going to last for the next 10/15 yrs , get our Club known for giving players a chance or promoting youth .

Whether we’ve got the right personnel in place is another debate .

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We need to stop looking back.same people posting the same boring shit.

Think we have already shown which route we were going down next season..young players with hunger and something to prove..Lyons..Brownlie think there was possibly a couple more not sure how that will work out now..

Lets pull together and make sure our club whatever league they are in are still here when we come out the other side..

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50 minutes ago, Whitelees jag said:

We need to stop looking back.same people posting the same boring shit.

Think we have already shown which route we were going down next season..young players with hunger and something to prove..Lyons..Brownlie think there was possibly a couple more not sure how that will work out now..

Lets pull together and make sure our club whatever league they are in are still here when we come out the other side..

So are you suggesting that if we continue to do the same thing-  with the same people then it will all work out ?  

You dont see any need for change on how and  who is Running the Club ? 

 

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Just now, Dark Passenger said:

Finally, Jim says what everyone knew he was getting at all along.

My Views on things are pretty much a matter of Public Record and have been consistent for some time - therefore not sure what your getting at 

You obviously think there is No change required - so good luck with that  

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11 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

My Views on things are pretty much a matter of Public Record and have been consistent for some time - therefore not sure what your getting at 

If they're a matter of public record and haven't changed any then you're not adding anything new to the debate.

Ergo, you're a bore. 

Your view pretty much boils down to 'no-one can hold a candle to my pals when it comes to running/managing a football club'.

The guys you hitched your wagon to initiated one of the most divisive periods in the recent history of PTFC. To what end and to whose benefit?

We've gone full circle. Sorry, no, we're actually in a worse position than we were prior to their intervention.

As I said, feel free to list who's responsible and why, starting with the current manager. But if you aren't proposing a solution then who really gives a sh*t?

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We are supposed to be on the cusp of change.

That change is fan ownership.

Hopefully at that point, everyone will coalesce around a common goal and, if they have something to offer, step forward to ensure the fans organisation, and ultimately the Board, feature a broad church of views and skills. It will only be what we make of it.

You need to decide what you dislike less Jim - democratic fan ownership (lets just assume it ticks all the boxes you would want it to, rather than get into that debate for the moment), or the status quo.

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31 minutes ago, jaf said:

Hopefully at that point, everyone will coalesce around a common goal and, if they have something to offer, step forward to ensure the fans organisation, and ultimately the Board, feature a broad church of views and skills. It will only be what we make of it.

Agreed.

Another point I'd make is that I'm far from happy to see the current Chairman back at the helm. I said before - and my position remains unchanged - that her presence could suffocate the chances of fan ownership succeeding. But you could argue that the previous board's machinations have ultimately cemented her position, at least in the short term.

And that's partly because she's really lucky to have been able to cede control of club communications to a competent operator this time around (hope that's evidence of lessons having been learned). That's one appointment I'd congratulate Beattie and co on.

Edited by Dark Passenger

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

If we do play 1st division football next year , there should be no pressure to go up straight away.

And so it begins.

Unbelievable.

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