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Juanito

Playing Staff

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Interested to know everybody's opinion on what to do the playing staff.

Currently we are likely to begin any season in League 1 and contracts are coming to an end.

Do we follow the likes of Ross County and free players we have no need for to preserve as much money in the club as possible for the long term.

Or do we offer short term contracts to the players to give them some security over this difficult period, similarly to Ayr and Dundee.

Also do we place them on the furlough scheme as I think currently we are still paying full wages and the likes of Motherwell have placed all staff on the scheme.

I think I would try and keep as much money in the club as possible with the aim to springboard back up the leagues if possible, but that might be due to my dislike of the current squad.

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End of contract should mean end of contract; the manager will already have spoken with those players he hopes will sign a new deal. All others should be released.

We are not social security, and cannot afford to pay players we do not need or want. Some if not all of these players would have walked away anyway, looking for a better deal elsewhere, only to be stopped by the Covid-19 outbreak.

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If extending until end of July under furlough scheme and giving them the 80% government paying and there's no cost to us I'd like to see us do this. 

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If the club aren't using the furlough scheme questions need to be asked...

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To the best of my knowledge the only first team players whose contracts are running out this week are Robson, Saunders, Mckinnon, Jones and Cardle.  Even without covid I don’t think there would be offers on the table for them.  Our probable bigger earners have another 1-2 years left ie Fox, Bannigan, Rudden, Graham, O’Ware etc and therein lies the problem.  After furlough can we afford to cut them loose (I doubt it) but can we afford their wages without all the usual revenue streams (I doubt that too).

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15 minutes ago, jagfox said:

If the club aren't using the furlough scheme questions need to be asked...

Whilst i agree with this I am aware that there is still some ambiguity regarding a tax liability for offering short term contracts. Separate teams are getting individual opinions on this hence different routes being taken by different clubs. There is also an issue of should you offer a short term contract to a player who had already indicated they would be leaving or had signed a PCO elsewhere

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Really difficult decisions to be made on this. If we take the out of contract players on furlough, do we when pay them the extra 20%?

Impossible for us to make decision on this without having access to the numbers behind this.

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While there is so many places have been disappointing this season to say the least, if the furlough scheme can be used similar to the way Ayr and Dundee are doing to give these guys a few weeks extra security then I wouldn’t be against that.  I really don’t like the idea of people being made unemployed in the middle of a pandemic with no certainty of when they will receive another wage.

talking of which I hope with Dochertys contract coming to an end at Ayr I hope we are in a position to start honouring our contract with him immediately 

i also think that Dunfermline and QOTS have had serious question asked by people including fans the way they seem to have dumped players enough masse and players and agents will remember these things. 

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I presume we aren't using the furlough scheme as I don't remember it being mentioned, or we are using it and topping up the wage to 100%, either way costly given the minimal money coming into the club at the time.

We can't pay off players we would normally come to an agreement with. We couldn't sign players just now and place them on the furlough scheme so there is going to be an almighty bun fight when football returns to professional level.

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51 minutes ago, Juanito said:

I presume we aren't using the furlough scheme as I don't remember it being mentioned, or we are using it and topping up the wage to 100%, either way costly given the minimal money coming into the club at the time.

We can't pay off players we would normally come to an agreement with. We couldn't sign players just now and place them on the furlough scheme so there is going to be an almighty bun fight when football returns to professional level.

Surely we must be using the furlough scheme when pretty much every other club is. It would be absolute madness not to have sought to make use of it

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The club confirmed on 27 March that it hoped to use the furlough scheme and make up the difference so that "no member of staff across the club will be left worse off by the current situation".

The statement referred to "certain groups", but I assumed that applied to players.

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Thanks for the info, not as bad as I first feared but will be interesting to see how we proceed in the future.

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If we can't afford it the players need to go.  It's all about £ in and £ out.  We need to run break even minimum.  If not then the future of the club is at risk.

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I don't want to look heartless or unsympathetic, but if there is any doubt that Thistle could end up with a bill further down the road we should not keep anybody we don't want after Sunday. In this pandemic, the one thing Scottish football has said is you have to look after yourself. 

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We are not a charity case we are a business albeit our esteemed chair will no doubt do what she can to make a PR disaster of this or find a way for it to come back and haunt us down the line. I full expect no players to have been furloughed and if they have they will have their contracts extended and HMRC will come gunning for us around December. We are after all the Family Club who takes care of everyone and their auntie and uncle whilst forgetting the bottom line is to win games and make money!

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On 5/27/2020 at 11:01 AM, elevenone said:

To the best of my knowledge the only first team players whose contracts are running out this week are Robson, Saunders, Mckinnon, Jones and Cardle.  Even without covid I don’t think there would be offers on the table for them.  Our probable bigger earners have another 1-2 years left ie Fox, Bannigan, Rudden, Graham, O’Ware etc and therein lies the problem.  After furlough can we afford to cut them loose (I doubt it) but can we afford their wages without all the usual revenue streams (I doubt that too).

Rudden has gone back to his mum in the Edinburgh area. Was in digs in East Dunbartonshire, that were being covered by Rangers at one point . Thistle were unwilling to carry on  with the arrangement.

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On 5/27/2020 at 8:30 PM, Pinhead said:

We are not a charity case we are a business albeit our esteemed chair will no doubt do what she can to make a PR disaster of this or find a way for it to come back and haunt us down the line. I full expect no players to have been furloughed and if they have they will have their contracts extended and HMRC will come gunning for us around December. We are after all the Family Club who takes care of everyone and their auntie and uncle whilst forgetting the bottom line is to win games and make money!

We can furlough players under contract. NI still needs paying (employers and employees). You cannot extend the contract of someone in furlough or you have the possibility of having to pay not only the extension back but all of it for all employees granted. HMRC are going to be ruthless on this, as it’s already showing signs of being abused (Folk doing sly shifts etc) 

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On 5/27/2020 at 7:17 PM, Auld Jag said:

I don't want to look heartless or unsympathetic, but if there is any doubt that Thistle could end up with a bill further down the road we should not keep anybody we don't want after Sunday. In this pandemic, the one thing Scottish football has said is you have to look after yourself. 

Fully agree. The priority must be the liquidity of the club. Going out of business it won’t help looking back saying “we were nice to everyone”.

I hope the club have followed the furlough scheme exactly as it’s meant. No extension to contracts of those furloughed, no one on furlough popping into the office to help out, no one doing meetings etc. If you are furloughed you are not allowed to be working in any capacity and as it’s a joint agreement between employers and employees, both must understand the rules

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2 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Fully agree. The priority must be the liquidity of the club. Going out of business it won’t help looking back saying “we were nice to everyone”.

I hope the club have followed the furlough scheme exactly as it’s meant. No extension to contracts of those furloughed, no one on furlough popping into the office to help out, no one doing meetings etc. If you are furloughed you are not allowed to be working in any capacity and as it’s a joint agreement between employers and employees, both must understand the rules

My understanding is that the club are taking the furlough scheme very seriously.

I hoped to send t shirts to players so they could take a photo. Was told that wasn't allowed.

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Even on Furlough and topping up the wages 20%, we are burning through minimum £30k a month based on an annual wage at last accounts of £1.8 million. Thankfully we have cash reserves and I am hoping no one except the grounds man is pulling a non-furloughed wage at moment.

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1 minute ago, BowenBoys said:

My understanding is that the club are taking the furlough scheme very seriously.

I hoped to send t shirts to players so they could take a photo. Was told that wasn't allowed.

Excellent thanks BB. I know of 2 companies now in Scotland who have furloughed a huge % of guys off only to bring a lot back but asked them to keep quiet about it. Apparently VAT receipts (and loose tongues towards competitors) caught them, instead of output dropping by 90% it only dropped by around 20%. Both will probably go under now as not only will they be fined and have to pay it all back, they are now classed as pariah’s by suppliers and customers alike who won’t go near them.

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Slightly different to what is being discussed. But is 1st June not the date Ross Docherty was supposed to be joining?

i wonder if no announcement today means he is not coming (relegation clause- albeit it was more expulsion than relegation) or maybe it’s just on hold

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14 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Excellent thanks BB. I know of 2 companies now in Scotland who have furloughed a huge % of guys off only to bring a lot back but asked them to keep quiet about it. Apparently VAT receipts (and loose tongues towards competitors) caught them, instead of output dropping by 90% it only dropped by around 20%. Both will probably go under now as not only will they be fined and have to pay it all back, they are now classed as pariah’s by suppliers and customers alike who won’t go near them.

Gerry is a Lawyer so I would imagine he will have all the rules checked properly

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