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Court It Is Then


Bobbyhouston
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How come all the chat seems to be about us challenging promotion when our statement explicitly said that we weren't? Or have I misinterpreted something?

Eta...Ah yeah I did misinterpret it. Just read it again. Ignore me

Edited by allyo
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4 minutes ago, allyo said:

How come all the chat seems to be about us challenging promotion when our statement explicitly said that we weren't? Or have I misinterpreted something?

Well as reconstruction failed then the only way for ours, Heart's and Stranraer's relegations to be reversed is to stop promotions into our league places.

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15 minutes ago, laukat said:

More on the likelehood   that the compliance officer will take action against us

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5720707/hearts-partick-sfa-spfl-court/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1592590650

Not sure how reliable this is but this guy seems to have a copy of Hearts petition to court

https://twitter.com/joe_black1509

Main points from what I can see are as follows:

SPFL directors wrongly advised clubs that payments could only be made by declaring final placings

SPFL directors did not make clubs aware that there may be liabilities from broadcasting rights if they ended the season

Dundee's vote should have stood

SPFL rules C14 and C17 state there must be 38 games in a season. Only at the end of the season does the 12th place club get relegated.

There was no rule or discretion for the SPFL to end the season

The vote was illegitimate and oppressive which amounted to unfair prejudice.

 

 

Did all these legal brains fail to read the small print at the bottom of page 17 of appendix 23 where it says “we reserve the right to change the rules and make up new ones at any time it suits us” ?

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

We’re all entitled to our points of view WJ and that’s what we’re basing our opinion on but I think there could be more to this than meets the eye or has been disclosed publicly and possibly that’s where the QC ‘s involved have decided it’s worth pursuing.

We went all the way to the High Court last time we were in this Position and had a QC 

The Case was thrown out as Courts do not want to get involved in disputes of Sporting Organization's between members  - as you are in effect suing an organization whose rules you have been party top drawing up - which makes no sense ?   

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4 hours ago, javeajag said:

And we are defending our interests .....we were not relegated we were voted out the league 

Your attitude us shameful 

Why is it shameful - he is expressing a valid and thought out view - one that other Fans Share or are we all to go along with the "Poor Thistle" mentality - there was a simple solution - don't be in the relegation zone  - would we be as bothered if it didn't affect us ? Would we Vote to "do no harm "  Or Vote in the best interests of PTFC ? 

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1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

We went all the way to the High Court last time we were in this Position and had a QC 

The Case was thrown out as Courts do not want to get involved in disputes of Sporting Organization's between members  - as you are in effect suing an organization whose rules you have been party top drawing up - which makes no sense ?   

A bit like telling shareholders that they are responsible for appointing the board so therefore they have to accept anything that board does.

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40 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

We went all the way to the High Court last time we were in this Position and had a QC 

The Case was thrown out as Courts do not want to get involved in disputes of Sporting Organization's between members  - as you are in effect suing an organization whose rules you have been party top drawing up - which makes no sense ?   

Different cases JJ 

Making the rules up as they go on ( eg no play offs , pyramid etc

lost Dundee vote 

coercion from Doncaster and Co 

We had no choice , we’ve now got a restriction of trade with no start date of division 1 commencing 

No agreed compensation in what are extraordinary circumstances with the pandemic.

No transparency of monies owed to broadcasters which possibly influenced the resolution.

What would you have done different to try and safeguard the existence of our Club ?.

Edited by jlsarmy
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1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Why is it shameful - he is expressing a valid and thought out view - one that other Fans Share or are we all to go along with the "Poor Thistle" mentality - there was a simple solution - don't be in the relegation zone  - would we be as bothered if it didn't affect us ? Would we Vote to "do no harm "  Or Vote in the best interests of PTFC ? 

We will never know how we would have voted. However the vast majority of thistle fans would have been appalled if for example QOS had been in our place. I would like to think the PTFC board would have thought similarly. 

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16 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

We will never know how we would have voted. However the vast majority of thistle fans would have been appalled if for example QOS had been in our place. I would like to think the PTFC board would have thought similarly. 

You're spot on Dl, we would have been appalled and in fact, most of us would have been disgusted had our board, although I don't think they would have, voted as the likes of QOS. 

Promotion and relegation is one thing, but I cannot understand how league reconstruction could ever be voted against by anyone.

In fact, if you offered me a vote on the following, I'd vote yes:

Thistle get relegated

Each league has two extra teams in it

Two up, two down with a play off also

We get to play > 20 games this season in League 1

 

I'd certainly feel cheated by the relegation but think that Scottish Football and Thistle, would benefit in the long run.

Why oh why are teams with nothing to lose, relegation wise, voting against larger leagues?

It's complete madness. 

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Going by statements on Sportsound by several of 1st and 2nd division chairmen, the reason that they voted to curtail the season was because they would not have any players if the season  started up again in late /June or July. The Forfar chairman said they would have only five players on their books. Stranraer would not have any. Most of the clubs in Div 1/2 had players on one year contracts finishing in June and would not be able to full fill the remaining fixtures.

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30 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

We will never know how we would have voted. However the vast majority of thistle fans would have been appalled if for example QOS had been in our place. I would like to think the PTFC board would have thought similarly. 

Not so sure. I personally think, at least initially, we would have acted out of self-interest. It's the default position in Scotland. I would hope and expect that if presented with the last reconstruction vote we would have acted with some decency, particularly as it would have had almost no detrimental effect. Clearly there were a handful of clubs that acted in such a manner, but so few that it highlights very starkly what a sickening shower of shite we have making up Scotland's top flight. It almost doesn't matter what happens now, the lack of any morality in Scottish football has ground me down after over 50 years of supporting a frankly shite product. I'll probably still go to Firhill out of blind loyalty but the rest of the game can go **** itself. 

Contrast us with Germany where real football teams show us how to act in a crisis. 

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As much as I would love to see the total destruction of the charade that is the SPFL. Honestly, and we all deep down in our hearts know. If we had 5 or even 10 games in hand we would have struggled to stay up. the best we can achieve is the compen. The case is water tight we could take them all the way, especially if the costs will be bourn by an unnamed source. Thistle for ever Death to the SPFL & SFA.  

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9 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Why is it shameful - he is expressing a valid and thought out view - one that other Fans Share or are we all to go along with the "Poor Thistle" mentality - there was a simple solution - don't be in the relegation zone  - would we be as bothered if it didn't affect us ? Would we Vote to "do no harm "  Or Vote in the best interests of PTFC ? 

His view is yes it was unjust but we should take our medicine .....what’s valid and thought out about that ? I can that great insight from Roy Mcgregor 

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12 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Fair enough. I have a direct style and I freely acknowledge that sometimes rubs people up the wrong way.

My irritation stems from people's unwillingness to be realistic about the situation, and to try to excuse or justify really risky decisions. It's easy to be firebrand and to say it's an injustice and good for us for fighting. But the successful Generals know when the battle is lost and they know which battles are smart to pick. I honestly think we are picking a bad battle here and that we've already lost the war.

We were already in the battle, though. 

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2 minutes ago, topcat said:

Amazing Stuff.  Its been an absolute age in the internet news era and we still don,t know the identity of said legal benefactor. Papers ,Rumour and conspiracy websites must be loosing their touch.  Usually by this time its leaked.

I think we can rule out Woodside Jag, unless it is a double bluff to put us off the scent

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8 hours ago, Muscat Jag said:

Not so sure. I personally think, at least initially, we would have acted out of self-interest. It's the default position in Scotland. I would hope and expect that if presented with the last reconstruction vote we would have acted with some decency, particularly as it would have had almost no detrimental effect. Clearly there were a handful of clubs that acted in such a manner, but so few that it highlights very starkly what a sickening shower of shite we have making up Scotland's top flight. It almost doesn't matter what happens now, the lack of any morality in Scottish football has ground me down after over 50 years of supporting a frankly shite product. I'll probably still go to Firhill out of blind loyalty but the rest of the game can go **** itself. 

Contrast us with Germany where real football teams show us how to act in a crisis. 

Never heard you so beaten down Muscat Jag.  But your right that the product doesn,t deserve the loyalty that it gets.  I have switched off totally to away fixtures and I have to admit have found it harder to drag myself to Firhill of recent times even though we are no strangers to the ups and downs of relegation/promotion.

Edited by topcat
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8 hours ago, Muscat Jag said:

Not so sure. I personally think, at least initially, we would have acted out of self-interest. It's the default position in Scotland. I would hope and expect that if presented with the last reconstruction vote we would have acted with some decency, particularly as it would have had almost no detrimental effect. Clearly there were a handful of clubs that acted in such a manner, but so few that it highlights very starkly what a sickening shower of shite we have making up Scotland's top flight. It almost doesn't matter what happens now, the lack of any morality in Scottish football has ground me down after over 50 years of supporting a frankly shite product. I'll probably still go to Firhill out of blind loyalty but the rest of the game can go **** itself. 

Contrast us with Germany where real football teams show us how to act in a crisis. 

Your last point re Germany is valid , apart from trying to help all the other clubs survive the pandemic, you’ve even got a Club like Dortmund donating money to some of the pubs in the area because they know the impact this pandemic is having on the surrounding area .

Would that happen here 

Not a chance 

 

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Plenty fans on here were supportive of the 14-14-14 proposal which would have seen four clubs from League 1 lumped in with the League 2 clubs. Don't know if the club would have voted for it. Suspect it may have.

Definitely think Anne Budge lost her moral high ground when she came up with that idea.

Have to say that I thought minimal reconstruction was the only way to address this. Stopping promotion to me seems every bit as unjustified as the relegations.

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1 hour ago, topcat said:

Amazing Stuff.  Its been an absolute age in the internet news era and we still don,t know the identity of said legal benefactor. Papers ,Rumour and conspiracy websites must be loosing their touch.  Usually by this time its leaked.

My guess is Hearts or their “wealthy benefactor” are paying our way as it makes their case look better. 

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Just as a slight diversion, here's a quote from a football publication...

"...changing the format of the league was almost impossible to accomplish. Understandably, in the votes that mattered clubs would consult their own individual interests".

That's a quote from Bob Crampsey's "The First 100 Years" and it refers to 1938-39 season. There's nothing new in Scottish Football.

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