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muirparkman

What we CAN do..

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21 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

As a parallel is it going to be ok for the majority of SPFL clubs to put our club in danger  with no start date to Division 1 and I think at this moment in time we’ve probably got the biggest pool of players who are under contract 14/15 players.

No income coming in and these players have got to be paid .

I’m sure you can do the arithmetic.

No it's not okay. They shouldn't have done that.

But not all things that aren't "okay" are illegal and sometimes you've got to accept that things happen in life that are "not okay" and they don't get remedied.

Because life is unfair.

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9 minutes ago, scotty said:

Suddenly this topic has changed lanes! :lol:

I am very doubtful that legal action over our relegation is the right and sensible way to go. I would much rather the club had delayed its decision, asked the SPFL for an indicitive date for division one to begin and demanded that the other teams in the division commit to playing this season. We would then have known where we stood in relation to a football solution. If there was to be no start date then we could have demanded  the SPFL find a place for us and any outher club who wanted to play a place in a division which was going to play.

They can’t do that because there are Clubs who want to mothball for a season which I believe we’ll have a better idea on Monday.

In these extraordinary times, I think it’s unbelievable the self - interest of some clubs.

We had no other choice 

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Just now, jlsarmy said:

They can’t do that because there are Clubs who want to mothball for a season which I believe we’ll have a better idea on Monday.

In these extraordinary times, I think it’s unbelievable the self - interest of some clubs.

We had no other choice 

Yes we did. We had the choice not to initiate vexatious litigation.

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Just now, Woodstock Jag said:

Yes we did. We had the choice not to initiate vexatious litigation.

What other choice did we have ? , after other options have all failed ( reconstruction etc ) please don’t say “ take our medicine “

This was our last resort 

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4 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

What other choice did we have ? , after other options have all failed ( reconstruction etc ) please don’t say “ take our medicine “

This was our last resort 

No. Our last resort was persuading other members to back reconstruction.

What do you we suggest we do when this legal challenge fails? Send anthrax parcels to Hampden? After all, it's a "last resort" and we've got to look after ourselves.

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4 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Yes we did. We had the choice not to initiate vexatious litigation.

We are faced with your option of doing nothing or doing something .....I personally resent you saying our legal action is purely designed to annoy our frustrate it’s designed to stop this disgraceful action towards us succeeding 

we have taken advice from lawyers who have more knowledge and expertise than you have....I  been involved in issues where QCs having been asked for a view have clearly stated the chances of success were low or unlikely so your insinuation that any old lawyer will say what the client wants for a few bob doesn’t reflect well on you  

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Just now, javeajag said:

We are faced with your option of doing nothing or doing something .....I personally resent you saying our legal action is purely designed to annoy our frustrate it’s designed to stop this disgraceful action towards us succeeding 

You've literally got countless Thistle fans saying "well even if we lose let's hope we give Neil Doncaster a bloody nose/embarrass the SPFL" and we've got others saying "good" when it's pointed out that the litigation potentially puts other Clubs in peril.

I personally think that is disgraceful and not grounds for litigation: ever.

The only basis for a legal challenge is if we can credibly say that (a) the rules were broken and (b) either a Court or the member Clubs are likely to arrive at a different solution that is less bad for Partick Thistle and Scottish football as a whole.

I have concluded, I think reasonably, that we don't have the combination of (a) and (b) to make this worthwhile.

It therefore makes me angry when others suggest that we definitely must have just because a QC is acting for us (like lawyers don't take on lost causes all the time) or because they want to stick two fingers up at the SPFL even if we haven't got a leg to stand on legally. That is Thistle people behaving out of and cheering on a motive of malice. And frankly **** them if that's their mentality.

Just now, javeajag said:

we have taken advice from lawyers who have more knowledge and expertise than you have....I  been involved in issues where QCs having been asked for a view have clearly stated the chances of success were low or unlikely so your insinuation that any old lawyer will say what the client wants for a few bob doesn’t reflect well on you  

There are literally thousands of cases with negligible prospects of success brought before Scotland's courts every year. Desperate parties resort to desperate measures even when the smart thing to do is to walk away. This isn't a judgment on the legal professionals involved, who will frame advice in terms of prospects of success and will clearly explain to their clients what the consequences are likely to be of proceeding.

Ultimately the decision to bring a case is a business one or a personal one, in light of the advice received. The advice itself does not dictate the course of action the client takes, much though many in the legal profession would (in so many cases) have preferred it otherwise.

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31 minutes ago, scotty said:

Suddenly this topic has changed lanes! :lol:

I am very doubtful that legal action over our relegation is the right and sensible way to go. I would much rather the club had delayed its decision, asked the SPFL for an indicitive date for division one to begin and demanded that the other teams in the division commit to playing this season. We would then have known where we stood in relation to a football solution. If there was to be no start date then we could have demanded  the SPFL find a place for us and any outher club who wanted to play a place in a division which was going to play.

Totally understand where you're coming from. Yet, within hours of our announcement, SPFL ask the Div 1 & 2 clubs that exact question. Coincidence?

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33 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

No. Our last resort was persuading other members to back reconstruction.

What do you we suggest we do when this legal challenge fails? Send anthrax parcels to Hampden? After all, it's a "last resort" and we've got to look after ourselves.

Thought that was the 300k a year Neil Doncaster’s job to steer the SPFL ship

He hasn’t done a good job if it has come to this , over and above no sponsorship for the League etc etc 

Edited by jlsarmy

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11 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Though that was the 300k a year Neil Doncaster’s job to steer the SPFL ship

He hasn’t done a good job if it has come to this , over and above no sponsorship for the League etc etc 

That Neil Doncaster is shit at his job isn't grounds for a court case.

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Just now, Woodstock Jag said:

That Neil Doncaster is shit at his job isn't grounds for a court case.

True but if he had been good at his job , the member clubs wouldn’t have to go down this route as a last resort 

Surely there is a connection there 

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22 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Totally understand where you're coming from. Yet, within hours of our announcement, SPFL ask the Div 1 & 2 clubs that exact question. Coincidence?

Maybe, maybe not but had we waited a day or two we could have found out where the league is going. I'm not too sure that clubs can just "mothball" for a season and expect their place in the league to be maintained. If more than half of the bottom two divisions and maybe some championship clubs didn't want to play then league reconstruction would have become inevitable.

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2 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

True but if he had been good at his job , the member clubs wouldn’t have to go down this route as a last resort 

Surely there is a connection there 

No one is forcing Thistle to initiate any litigation.

Just because you feel like it's the only viable option doesn't mean it's a goodright, or acceptable. Option.

In much the same way as torturing a terrorist is wrong even if it saves lives (and that's an apt analogy even practically because torture is a terrible and ineffective interrogation technique).

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47 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

You've literally got countless Thistle fans saying "well even if we lose let's hope we give Neil Doncaster a bloody nose/embarrass the SPFL" and we've got others saying "good" when it's pointed out that the litigation potentially puts other Clubs in peril.

I personally think that is disgraceful and not grounds for litigation: ever.

The only basis for a legal challenge is if we can credibly say that (a) the rules were broken and (b) either a Court or the member Clubs are likely to arrive at a different solution that is less bad for Partick Thistle and Scottish football as a whole.

I have concluded, I think reasonably, that we don't have the combination of (a) and (b) to make this worthwhile.

It therefore makes me angry when others suggest that we definitely must have just because a QC is acting for us (like lawyers don't take on lost causes all the time) or because they want to stick two fingers up at the SPFL even if we haven't got a leg to stand on legally. That is Thistle people behaving out of and cheering on a motive of malice. And frankly **** them if that's their mentality.

There are literally thousands of cases with negligible prospects of success brought before Scotland's courts every year. Desperate parties resort to desperate measures even when the smart thing to do is to walk away. This isn't a judgment on the legal professionals involved, who will frame advice in terms of prospects of success and will clearly explain to their clients what the consequences are likely to be of proceeding.

Ultimately the decision to bring a case is a business one or a personal one, in light of the advice received. The advice itself does not dictate the course of action the client takes, much though many in the legal profession would (in so many cases) have preferred it otherwise.

So now we are desperate instead of receiving actual legal advice that stated we had a basis for action and indeed others saying we had a basis for action .....your basically accusing the Board if lying or incompetent without being party to the arguments or advice whilst at the same time saying we might win in the grounds of the vote being wrong but it won’t change anything .... which is it ? 

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22 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

No one is forcing Thistle to initiate any litigation.

Just because you feel like it's the only viable option doesn't mean it's a goodright, or acceptable. Option.

In much the same way as torturing a terrorist is wrong even if it saves lives (and that's an apt analogy even practically because torture is a terrible and ineffective interrogation technique).

Eh ....time you had a beer 

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1 hour ago, gianlucatoni said:

He can't.

WJ wants us to turn round, pull down our kecks and take it up the Gary Glitter because it's the moral thing to do 

I don't think Garry Glitter and moral thing to do can be used in the same sentence.

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20 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

I don't think Garry Glitter and moral thing to do can be used in the same sentence.

I do apologise for upsetting your moral compass AJ - rhyming slang and all that - open to alternative suggestions though :thumbsup2:

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9 minutes ago, West of Scotland said:

"Why's your new shirt got a black armband on it? Is that in support of Black Lives Matter?"

"Eh, no ... it's 'cause we got relegated."

I prefer expelled.

Relegated seems far too normal for what is happening in Scottish Football

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33 minutes ago, gianlucatoni said:

I do apologise for upsetting your moral compass AJ - rhyming slang and all that - open to alternative suggestions though :thumbsup2:

Not at all. Should have put a smiley face after comment.:thumbsup:

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6 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

....

Remember, Hitler won a democratic majority. Should anybody have resisted his act?

He didn't: despite massive promotion through the media, the suppression - in many cases through imprisonment and murder - of opponents, the  massive violence and intimidation of voters and opposing groups, the Nazi Party didn't gain more than 43.9 % in any election.

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People are for or slightly against what the club are doing. I have been vocal in that Jackie Low is a charlatan and not to be trusted because she is all ego and nothing more but i am intirgued by @Woodstock Jag being so vehemently against when nobody else seems to be. Does he know something nobody else does because he seems to stand alone and be dead against it. What are we all missing or is he a lone wolf?

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