Scottlish Elections

[Steven H]

Below is a letter cut and pasted in its entirety from today's Herald.

 

During the recent Scottish election all three of the now-departed leaders of the Labour, Conservative and LibDem parties claimed to be strong supporters of the Union, but they all failed to produce specific reasons why it should continue in its present form.

Instead they patronised the voters with simplistic assertions such as “we are stronger together than apart”, but provided no detailed evidence of the benefits of being bound together in what seems to be an imbalanced and increasingly dysfunctional partnership. In the forthcoming referendum, how can we make up our minds without honest and reliable information?

How does Scotland benefit from sending to the London Treasury all the personal and business taxes collected in Scotland, and then getting back an annual block grant which may or may not be a fair return? What advantage is it to have all decisions on our economic and taxation policies taken by a UK parliament in which we have less than 10% representation? As one example, how do we benefit by having junior UK ministers representing our important fishing industry interests at European summits?

What are the attractions to the English of being tied up with a small country to the north, which many see as a nation of scroungers and whingers who pay no taxes and rely on Barnett Formula subsidies from English taxpayers to keep them in booze and from having to work for a living? Perhaps the benefit is being able to base the UK’s nuclear arsenal and submarines as far away as possible from London, or the constant supply of Scottish soldiers to fight in illegal or pointless wars?

If there is to be a referendum in three years’ time on Scotland’s independence, whatever that may mean in today’s world, let’s use the time to have a meaningful debate on all the pros and cons, and don’t insult us with patronising statements that Scotland is too small or incapable of supporting its own economy. New Zealand, with a smaller population, seems to have managed to do that for the last 100 years on just sheep and butter. Surely Scotland has at least as much potential and natural resources, and the ability to manage our own affairs?

Let us have a grown-up debate with all the real facts and figures, not political propaganda or sexed-up dossiers. And then let the people decide.Iain A D Mann,

 

A very well put letter and asks a lot of the questions already asked on this thread and many of the questions Ive asked here myself. No union supporter has sought to answer them here and now one of them suggests it is down to the supporters of independence to PROVE it would be better . Im sure they will find it equally as difficult to prove it would be worse and Jaggernaut has highlighted the reasons why.

 

The sections of the letter I have put in bold highlight exactly what I want from all parties, including the supporters of the union on here. Why can't we have such a debate in the microscopic scale that is this forum? For me it is because those supporting the status quo have said nothing of substance to suggest remain as part of the UK is in the best interests of Scotland.

[B.C.G. JAG]

As has been suggested, an independent Scotland would, at least initially, stay with sterling, but become a partner in the currency with the Bank Of England. We would remove ourselves from misguided UK military forays and align ourselves with Europe. We could represent our own, very specific interests within Europe. We would have the NHS that we voted for, not the fragmented privatised version of England which nobody voted for. We would have a national broadcaster able to make programmes relevant to the populace without having to go to London for commissions. We would be able to promote a more relevant school curriculum. We would be able to decide what is best for us, rather than someone else.

 

What have we to gain from staying in the union?

[Jaggernaut]

you cant be talking about polititions

 

so waht you are saying is let give it a pop, if it all falls to bits and we go bust as a country...well thats ok because we gave it a go

Yes.

 

Has it escaped your notice? The UK is bust as a country, economically and in other ways too.

[jaggybunnet]

Yes.

 

Has it escaped your notice? The UK is bust as a country, economically and in other ways too.

 

was going bust, due to inept management by the lefties, hopefuly the tories can sort this mess out and at least have a plan, unlike labour for uk and snp for scotland..... oh yes they do, cut jobs in the nhs and up the coperation tax to scare away jobs from scotland

[B.C.G. JAG]

..... oh yes they do

JB - the pantomime villain

Edited May 18, 2011 by B.C.G. JAG

[jaggybunnet]

JB - the pantomime villain

 

[Woodstock Jag]

Turns out Mark Britnell (aka "show no mercy" "state insurance" man) isn't a Coalition health advisor at all, Cameron had never heard of him, but was a Labour adviser in 2000 increasing the role of the private sector, appointed by Labour to one of the 10 strategic health authorities, and was the Director General for Commissioning in the NHS under the Labour government.

 

Oh Blackpool Jag... where hast thou gone?

[Collins Out!]

We need to get our young men out of the resource wars of the USA, where they are just cannon fodder. If this means a vote for independence then a thousand times YES.

[Phoenix]

As has been suggested, an independent Scotland would, at least initially, stay with sterling, but become a partner in the currency with the Bank Of England. We would remove ourselves from misguided UK military forays and align ourselves with Europe. We could represent our own, very specific interests within Europe. We would have the NHS that we voted for, not the fragmented privatised version of England which nobody voted for. We would have a national broadcaster able to make programmes relevant to the populace without having to go to London for commissions. We would be able to promote a more relevant school curriculum. We would be able to decide what is best for us, rather than someone else.

 

What have we to gain from staying in the union?

 

Superb. No more X Factor and the return of Taggert and High Road. That argument's won this voter over

[Kapiti Jag]

I don't think the Scottish psyche is any more progressive than say English people. If you were to say that about Indians or Africans then you could (and I am not accusing you before you jump down my throat) lead to accusations of gentle racism.

A little bit too quick with the racism card there, I meant more progressive in comparison to the Scotland of, say, 20 years ago, not in comparison to any other country. (Who I believe are all the same race anyway.)

 

The main thing for me which I find daft is if Scotland was independence you would have a SNP rump who would say "we are Scotland's party" you must vote for us and the other parties will be Labour/Social Democratic, Liberal, Conservative, Green.

That's a good point though, in an independent Scotland who would the opposition be? Would there ever be a Scottish Labour or Conservative party (or any other) which could convince the voters that they were truly divorced from control by their English counterparts?

[Blackpool Jags]

Turns out Mark Britnell (aka "show no mercy" "state insurance" man) isn't a Coalition health advisor at all, Cameron had never heard of him, but was a Labour adviser in 2000 increasing the role of the private sector, appointed by Labour to one of the 10 strategic health authorities, and was the Director General for Commissioning in the NHS under the Labour government.

 

Oh Blackpool Jag... where hast thou gone?

 

Sorry to pish on your chips, but all my sentiments stated earlier in respect of this rat are fully extant. He left his role as head of commissioning two years ago to join the accountancy firm, KPMG, who hold several 'advisory' and 'turnaround' contracts with Trusts and some SHAs within the NHS. He had become more vocal, in the year or two leading up to his departure, in his advocacy of the state as a mere funder, and not provider and, according to my normally reliable sources, he would very soon have been looking for alternative employment had he not scarpered anyway.

 

The newspaper story about him being invited into Cameron's kitchen cabinet now centres around whether Cameron is being fully up front by claiming he's never heard of him; if he hadn't heard of him, why hadn't he? I can't speculate on the veracity or otherwise of that claim.

 

It is not at all uncommon for civil servants to hold prominent advisory roles in the public sector and then go on to prostitute themselves on the private stage. Britnell is such a street walker and I'm delighted he's no longer our shame. Doesn't exonerate the Blair/Brown governments, though, for retaining this twat as long as they did.