Another Junior Heading Our Way

[Lindau]

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/paton-hopes-to-avoid-arm-op-1.1030123

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Edited May 24, 2010 by lady-isobel-barnett

[Guest grahamgibsonlickedmyaero]

is there any news on pauls left foot?

[Steven H]

Is it likely to be that Longworth guy?

[kevin energy]

Craig Smith at Ashfield Maybe

[GrantB]

No more diddies please. We have enough already.

 

I take it we aren't getting the good doctor then?

[GOVAN JAG]

Is it likely to be that Longworth guy?

 

 

I went down to see him play a few times and was'nt that impressed tbh.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I went down to see him play a few times and was'nt that impressed tbh.

Clyde are supposedly interested in Longworth.

[Woodstock Jag]

No more diddies please. We have enough already.

 

I take it we aren't getting the good doctor then?

 

To paraphrase the outgoing Chief Secretary to the Treasury:

 

"Dear GrantB, I am sorry to tell you that there is no money. Good luck, Partick Thistle"

[Lionel J. Botch]

To paraphrase the outgoing Chief Secretary to the Treasury:

 

"Dear GrantB, I am sorry to tell you that there is no money. Good luck, Partick Thistle"

True though - you see some of the players out o work and we are looking at the juniors. Sign of the times.

[GrantB]

To paraphrase the outgoing Chief Secretary to the Treasury:

 

"Dear GrantB, I am sorry to tell you that there is no money. Good luck, Partick Thistle"

 

If we all have your attitude, we might as well resign ourselves to 2nd division football.

 

We can do better than a bunch of juniors. If this is the signing policy, we'll be lucky to have a club in a couple of years time.

[1971]

If we all have your attitude, we might as well resign ourselves to 2nd division football.

 

We can do better than a bunch of juniors. If this is the signing policy, we'll be lucky to have a club in a couple of years time.

 

I'd say we're more likely to be without a club if we sign players that we can't afford, instead of signing one or two players a season from the junior ranks, who are likely to be on pennies.

 

But you're right: UNNAMEDPLAYERWHOWEAREONLYRUMOUREDTOBEINTERESTEDIN OUT!

[kevin energy]

Agreed 1971

[monthejags]

Could be Tommy Coyne from Linlithgow Rose.

[MWM]

Could be Tommy Coyne from Linlithgow Rose.

Hopefully not. Hes garbage, and was released by Dumbarton when they were in the 3rd division.

[monthejags]

He's had a good season, almost 30 goals. He's good in the air which is what we need.

[MWM]

You have to be kidding me on. I watched him play for Dumbarton against the Shire (when the Shire were really crap) and he was absolutely rank rotten. I know you can't base a player off just one game, but for him to be released now long after that horror show suggests not much different was happening in the other games.

 

While we are at it lets bring back Stevie Dallas.

[McKennan]

Let's bring back Willie Sharp. UberJunior. :worshippy: By the way, isn't one Junior on the forum enough?

[Woodstock Jag]

If we all have your attitude, we might as well resign ourselves to 2nd division football.

 

We can do better than a bunch of juniors. If this is the signing policy, we'll be lucky to have a club in a couple of years time.

 

Oh come on, I really just can't understand your anathema towards an austere signing policy given our financial situation.

 

Let me put this in simple terms: the Club is spending more money than it is taking in. A lot more. Every year. By normal budgeting rules, they are *already* spending too much. Attendances are down. Gate takings are down. Debt is rising. Bills are rising. We weren't even in the financial position to have an Assistant Manager for circa 1/3 of the season.

 

Our only options are to: a) increase the amount of money we take-in or reduce the amount of money we spend or c) both. The former has proved extremely difficult with dwindling attendances hence gate prices are up. The second is only easily controlled by reducing the budget for personnel at the Club. That means we can't buy established players from First Division and SPL clubs. If we're lucky we can afford to buy-out the occasional contract from Divisions 2 and 3, sign a few Juniors, and if we're really lucky catch a decent SPL/SFL1 player who has gone out of contract and for whatever reason other than finances finds Firhill a more attractive option than the alternatives.

 

I'd love it if we could sign Kenny Deuchar and Colin McMenamin, but the long and short of it is that we *just can't*. We don't have the money to build what is guaranteed to be a title challenging team. In the interim, however, we're going to be in a league with 3 part-time teams with even smaller budgets than our own (Raith, Stirling and Cowdenbeath) so your talk about Division 2 football is premature if you're basing it solely on finances.

 

If the signing policy was to spend even more money that we don't have, we would not have a Club within a few years. It's all about margins of appreciation, but the current signing policy is, in my opinion, significantly more likely (but still not actually austere enough in present circumstances) to guarantee the long-term existence of PTFC.

[uberteeb]

Yeah but if we sign Messi and Rooney then more peeps will come see us play innit

[GrantB]

Oh come on, I really just can't understand your anathema towards an austere signing policy given our financial situation.

 

Let me put this in simple terms: the Club is spending more money than it is taking in. A lot more. Every year. By normal budgeting rules, they are *already* spending too much. Attendances are down. Gate takings are down. Debt is rising. Bills are rising. We weren't even in the financial position to have an Assistant Manager for circa 1/3 of the season.

 

Our only options are to: a) increase the amount of money we take-in or reduce the amount of money we spend or c) both. The former has proved extremely difficult with dwindling attendances hence gate prices are up. The second is only easily controlled by reducing the budget for personnel at the Club. That means we can't buy established players from First Division and SPL clubs. If we're lucky we can afford to buy-out the occasional contract from Divisions 2 and 3, sign a few Juniors, and if we're really lucky catch a decent SPL/SFL1 player who has gone out of contract and for whatever reason other than finances finds Firhill a more attractive option than the alternatives.

 

I'd love it if we could sign Kenny Deuchar and Colin McMenamin, but the long and short of it is that we *just can't*. We don't have the money to build what is guaranteed to be a title challenging team. In the interim, however, we're going to be in a league with 3 part-time teams with even smaller budgets than our own (Raith, Stirling and Cowdenbeath) so your talk about Division 2 football is premature if you're basing it solely on finances.

 

If the signing policy was to spend even more money that we don't have, we would not have a Club within a few years. It's all about margins of appreciation, but the current signing policy is, in my opinion, significantly more likely (but still not actually austere enough in present circumstances) to guarantee the long-term existence of PTFC.

 

I've no problem with the club not spending money it cant afford. However, my point is that to gamble on unproven players from what is basically a glorified pub league is not the way to spend what little money we have.

 

We should be looking at players who have at least some senior experience, perhaps young guys who are being released from SPL clubs rather than juniors.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Yeah but if we sign Messi and Rooney then more peeps will come see us play innit

That's all very well but answer the the age old question first. Who would we drop?

[Woodstock Jag]

I've no problem with the club not spending money it cant afford. However, my point is that to gamble on unproven players from what is basically a glorified pub league is not the way to spend what little money we have.

 

We should be looking at players who have at least some senior experience, perhaps young guys who are being released from SPL clubs rather than juniors.

 

I could be facetious at this point at go "Damon Gray/Sam Morrow or Kris Doolan" but I'll resist.

 

A good player is a good player. It doesn't matter what league he's in. SPL teams are increasingly having to rely on their younger players because they too can't afford the alternatives. If a young player has been released from an SPL team it typically means he's simply not good enough. At least when you're recruiting from the Juniors (often better than some 2nd and 3rd Division teams) there's the possibility that they are good at football, but have never gone full-time because they have a trade, and would benefit from the step-up.

 

Juniors cost buttons. Released young guns from the SPL could well actually command higher wages because of their perceived "senior" experience sum totalling a few appearances off the bench in the last 10 minutes for Kilmarnock or Hamilton to fulfil the SPL's U21 bench quota. It doesn't mean they're any better than 20 year-olds plucked from the Juniors.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Woodstock Jag

[Third Lanark]

Oh come on, I really just can't understand your anathema towards an austere signing policy given our financial situation.

 

Let me put this in simple terms: the Club is spending more money than it is taking in. A lot more. Every year. By normal budgeting rules, they are *already* spending too much. Attendances are down. Gate takings are down. Debt is rising. Bills are rising. We weren't even in the financial position to have an Assistant Manager for circa 1/3 of the season.

 

Our only options are to: a) increase the amount of money we take-in or reduce the amount of money we spend or c) both. The former has proved extremely difficult with dwindling attendances hence gate prices are up. The second is only easily controlled by reducing the budget for personnel at the Club. That means we can't buy established players from First Division and SPL clubs. If we're lucky we can afford to buy-out the occasional contract from Divisions 2 and 3, sign a few Juniors, and if we're really lucky catch a decent SPL/SFL1 player who has gone out of contract and for whatever reason other than finances finds Firhill a more attractive option than the alternatives.

 

I'd love it if we could sign Kenny Deuchar and Colin McMenamin, but the long and short of it is that we *just can't*. We don't have the money to build what is guaranteed to be a title challenging team. In the interim, however, we're going to be in a league with 3 part-time teams with even smaller budgets than our own ([b]Raith, Stirling and Cowdenbeath[/b]) so your talk about Division 2 football is premature if you're basing it solely on finances.

 

If the signing policy was to spend even more money that we don't have, we would not have a Club within a few years. It's all about margins of appreciation, but the current signing policy is, in my opinion, significantly more likely (but still not actually austere enough in present circumstances) to guarantee the long-term existence of PTFC.

Sone good points there Graham and cant disagree with them. You are absolutely correct, the clubs is skint, broke etc. My main criticism and I can see Grants points here that why Partick Thistle is skint, broke etc. The wealthy Tom Hughes and Allan Cowan are not. Neither are millionaires David Beattie, Grant Bannerman, Eddie Prentice, Billy Allan and last but not least Ronnie Gilfillan. If these gentleman could even contribute an extra £10k each I'm sure that would dig into the debt and allow us to sign a couple of extra players at the very least.

 

With regards to the teams you have mentioned, Raith have already got John Baird and are certainly not waiting to July to start signing players, Stirling are linked with Billy Gibson, even Ayr United have signed Alan Trouten all skint clubs maybe but still not needing to go the Juniors route, which maybe is an indication of how ultra skint Partick Thistle the club is.

 

By the way Graham lay off Super Damo Gray he was not that bad really

[Woodstock Jag]

Sone good points there Graeme and cant disagree with them. You are absolutely correct, the clubs is skint, broke etc. My main criticism and I can see Grants points here that why Partick Thistle is skint, broke etc. The wealthy Tom Hughes and Allan Cowan are not. Neither are millionaires David Beattie, Grant Bannerman, Eddie Prentice, Billy Allan and last but not least Ronnie Gilfillan. If these gentleman could even contribute an extra £10k each I'm sure that would dig into the debt and allow us to sign a couple of extra players at the very least.

 

That's not how to run sustainably though. If we're relying on the hand-outs of benefactors we're not self-sufficient. All it does is delay the problem. They've already put money into PropCo and we can't assume they're going to put any more into the Club. We're not like quite a few other Clubs in that we don't have a willing long-term wealthy benefactor. The closest thing we've got to it is probably David Beattie, who did, if my memory serves, provide a substantial cash injection a couple of years back.

 

With regards to the teams you have mentioned, Raith have already got John Baird and are certainly not waiting to July to start signing players, Stirling are linked with Billy Gibson, even Ayr United have signed Alan Trouten all skint clubs maybe but still not needing to go the Juniors route, which maybe is an indication of how ultra skint Partick Thistle the club is.

 

That is a product of circumstance and cash-flow. We have larger numbers of players signed-up for next season and that, coupled with us being full-time, makes it less viable to take-on players over the summer, effectively paying a wage for no return. Contrast that with part-time Clubs (who are usually hybrids of part and full-time players) whose overheads are subsequently considerably less, having smaller and cheaper squads, allowing them to make more signings, even if they aren't big money ones, over the stagnant months of the summer.

 

Looking to the Juniors is a sign that we've not got any substantial money to throw about, but it isn't in itself a cause for negativity and Armageddon. People would do well to remember that Dougie Imrie was plying his trade with Lanark United just over 4 years ago, and is now courting Championship and Premier League interest if newspaper gossip from a couple of months back is anything to go by.

 

 

By the way Graeme lay off Super Damo Gray he was not that bad really

 

One hit wonder