Scottish Independence

[honved]

I read in yesterday's Daily Mail that the English are subsidising us and that we are a nation of dependent welfare junkies. So the question is, would we make it as an independent country or would we end up living in mud huts in ten years like the relatively newly independent countries of Slovenia, Slovakia, Latvia etc?

[Allan Heron]

I read in yesterday's Daily Mail that the English are subsidising us and that we are a nation of dependent welfare junkies. So the question is, would we make it as an independent country or would we end up living in mud huts in ten years like the relatively newly independent countries of Slovenia, Slovakia, Latvia etc?

 

The answer to that question is always going to be yes. Some things will be better, some things will be worse and others may be just different or remarkably the same. And everyone will have a different opinion of what belongs in which category.

[P-R]

Yes we would do fine - 100 pages

[JAGZ1876]

According to the latest treasury figures we paid in more than we received, so we are certainly not being subsidized. Perhaps its time to let the English go it alone, then they would have something to whine about.

[Blackpool Jags]

Got to say first off that I'm not a nationalist as such (I'd look a bit daft if I was, being down here all this time), but a fiercely patriotic individual just the same. The more I see the way Scotland is scorned and mocked by the media and some of the political tossers from South of the border who see the devolved Scottish Parliament as some stupid wee talking shop that'll keep the Jocks quiet for a while, the more I find myself leaning towards the Nationalist cause. Typically, when Holyrood actually starts to legislate in favour of its electors (how bloody dare they?!?!) the media are off on one, such as the favourable coverage given to that reptilian human rights lawyer who can't stand to see the Scots enact a popular piece of business such as that concerning tuition fees etc etc...

 

If Scotland does at some point decide to go it alone, I hope it turns out to be a rip-roaring success.

 

You know, if it wisnae for the weans, grand weans, joab, mortgage...

[jaggybunnet]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

and no

 

lets think now best bits for the devolved government big boys gang

 

could it be the Parliament building or the Edinburgh trams.

 

piss up in a brewery jumps to mind, and don't get me started on al megrahi fiasco

 

yes salmond is Hitler in disguise, just thought i would get i it out of the way now Honved

Edited September 1, 2011 by jaggybunnet

[Norman]

I read in yesterday's Daily Mail that the English are subsidising us and that we are a nation of dependent welfare junkies. So the question is, would we make it as an independent country or would we end up living in mud huts in ten years like the relatively newly independent countries of Slovenia, Slovakia, Latvia etc?

 

I can see the benefit in a devolved parliament but am struggling to see what additional gains, if any, we'd get from being independent other than a short-term feel-good factor.

[Woodstock Jag]

We'd do absolutely fine. Proper tax and immigration powers in a devolved set-up would be capable of producing the same governing outcome as independence. Anything else is relatively cosmetic as I suspect an arrangement to keep the armed forces in some shape or form would continue.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Woodstock Jag

[jaggybunnet]

I can see the benefit in a devolved parliament but am struggling to see what additional gains, if any, we'd get from being independent other than a short-term feel-good factor.

 

 

not for me it wouldn't, patient running the asylum

[i@n]

I already live in a mud hut but the rent is cheap. Thank you Edinburgh District Council.

[GrantB]

Wasn't going to bite but I'm bored so what the hell...

 

The way I see the unionists is like a son or a daughter that has stayed in the family home with their parents way into their thirties but is too scared to leave and face the big bad world.

 

Scotland is a vibrant, rich and diverse country who has been held back for years and years by an outdated union because politicians have fed us scare stories about being 'too small a country' to stand on our own two feet. Remember the one round about the time of the '79 referendum when they told us the oil would have run out by the turn of the millenium?

 

Just for Jaggybunnet, the Parliament building and the Edinbutgh trams fiasco were Labour decisions. I'll take that and raise you illegal war in Iraq and the London Olympics.

[jaggybunnet]

Wasn't going to bite but I'm bored so what the hell...

 

The way I see the unionists is like a son or a daughter that has stayed in the family home with their parents way into their thirties but is too scared to leave and face the big bad world.

 

Scotland is a vibrant, rich and diverse country who has been held back for years and years by an outdated union because politicians have fed us scare stories about being 'too small a country' to stand on our own two feet. Remember the one round about the time of the '79 referendum when they told us the oil would have run out by the turn of the millenium?

 

Just for Jaggybunnet, the Parliament building and the Edinbutgh trams fiasco were Labour decisions. I'll take that and raise you illegal war in Iraq and the London Olympics.

 

 

and, it was still a devolved Gov, the difference is without the rest of uk we would be well in the shit with just those two disasters.

 

and i will see you with the Commonwealth games

[Norman]

other than a short-term feel-good factor.

 

not for me it wouldn't, patient running the asylum

Sorry JB, I can see now that I was making a bit of a generalisation and not taking everyone's opinion into account.

 

In future I'll stick to the kind of rational argument that references Hitler or the Nazis.

[jaggybunnet]

Sorry JB, I can see now that I was making a bit of a generalisation and not taking everyone's opinion into account.

 

In future I'll stick to the kind of rational argument that references Hitler or the Nazis.

 

 

come on now that was just for Honved

 

and why would there be a feel good factor?

Edited September 1, 2011 by jaggybunnet

[honved]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

and no

 

lets think now best bits for the devolved government big boys gang

 

could it be the Parliament building or the Edinburgh trams.

 

piss up in a brewery jumps to mind, and don't get me started on al megrahi fiasco

 

yes salmond is Hitler in disguise, just thought i would get i it out of the way now Honved

 

You are probably right JB. We are too wee, too stupid and too poor to be left to our own devices.

 

After all, it's not as if anyone wrote a reportin 1974 that was covered up, suggesting that Scotland would have a strong oil based economy if it was independent and it's not as if an official government publicationshows that Scotland is doing better than the UK in terms of GDP and its notional deficit and has done for at least the last five years.

[jaggybunnet]

You are probably right JB. We are too wee, too stupid and too poor to be left to our own devices.

 

After all, it's not as if anyone wrote a reportin 1974 that was covered up, suggesting that Scotland would have a strong oil based economy if it was independent and it's not as if an official government publicationshows that Scotland is doing better than the UK in terms of GDP and its notional deficit and has done for at least the last five years.

 

 

sorry, and i know i am assuming that the snp would be in at the time, but they would sell our soul to the euro government dictatorship for subsidie, so no thanks

 

i do think that the oil is a bit of a red herring in that according to those i know on the rigs the quality is not that good anyway.

 

anyway i am away to read my mein kampf

[hamiltonjag]

I read in yesterday's Daily Mail

Was that the same "newspaper" that told us all asylum seekers were pimps and junkies who will soon be filling every UK town mugging your grannies and eating your family pets? THAT Daily Mail?

 

(The one Jaggybunnet reads?)

 

 

I still remain unconvinced by the Nationalist argument on independence(and the quickly-dropped-as-a-clearly-mental-idea-even-by-SNP-standards "independence lite")

[honved]

Was that the same "newspaper" that told us all asylum seekers were pimps and junkies who will soon be filling every UK town mugging your grannies and eating your family pets? THAT Daily Mail?

 

(The one Jaggybunnet reads?)

 

 

I still remain unconvinced by the Nationalist argument on independence(and the quickly-dropped-as-a-clearly-mental-idea-even-by-SNP-standards "independence lite")

 

That was never an SNP idea. The only person talking about this was Jim Sillars then the mainstream media attached the tag to some of Salmond's answers to hysterical questioning. Not that they are any less hysterical now, clearly.

[fatha bacon]

i actually think scotland would do all right. scotland is more right wing than england. scottish people would not not stand for the dole culture the way the english do. we would be o.k. luxemburg and belgium are examples of what we can be

[jaggybunnet]

 

(The one Jaggybunnet reads?)

 

 

 

 

dont read any papers they are all pretty crap and go for non stories or crap that fits the bias, what ever side that may be.

 

[Guy Incognito]

We certainly could make it as an independent country and would probably do better than we are currently under the union. Even the unionist parties have dropped the 'too wee, too poor, too stupid' line, as people were starting to wake up to the fact that it is a load of pish.

 

If we were to flourish as an independent nation then I think it is important that we have a diverse economy and not become reliant on one particular sector, as happened in Iceland and Ireland. There is, in my opinion, the potential here to do just that.

[Woodstock Jag]

The Scottish people are more than capable of running their own affairs. We don't "need" the Union.

 

What I would say though, is that I'd rather we sought to break-down national barriers the world over rather than quibble over how many to have and where to put them.

[i@n]

Isn't anyone going to think of the children?

[i@n]

The Scottish people are more than capable of running their own affairs. We don't "need" the Union.

 

What I would say though, is that I'd rather we sought to break-down national barriers the world over rather than quibble over how many to have and where to put them.

OMG that's sooo right.

[Lambies Lost Doo]

I am not a nationalist and I don't suffer from a Scottish cringe or "we are not good enough". I just don't see the point. We all live in the same island, we are a lot more similar with others than we like to admit and the examples of places like Belgium and Slovenia is rose tinted spectacles. They have all their own problems just like we do. It's a power grab mixed with anti-English sentiment. I don't even see the point in a Scottish Parliament, ill thought out and ill planned. Westminster had Scottish only laws and the Scottish Office had great powers and it could have been tweaked to improve. It was the romanticised polics of grieviance which continues to dominate Scottish politics.

 

At the end of the day three things seal it for me

1. European Union. Scotland would NOT be independent. It would be a very small nation in a large Euro bureucracy. London = Bad. Brussels = Good.

2. Credit Crunch. "The Arc of Prosperity" collapsed. Ireland, Iceland etc basket cases. Being part of a bigger economy helped us cope with a world financial crisis.

3. Nationalism. Don't like it. Never have, never will. People use it as a cloak to hide behind. We have 3 to 400 000 English people in Scotland. Probably the same figure of Scots in England. Why divide?