If You Were Undecided About Scotland, Has Cameron Tipped It For You?

[KAWB]

Opinions?

[crazy davie]

David Cameron is a feckin erse.

[twinny]

Whilst I agree that David Cameron has made an arse of it, I don't agree that his comments should push fence sitters one way or the other. Independence is about more than just one Tory leader, if that is what it was about then I'd be all for it for sure. His comments haven't made me change my opinion on the matter of independence, they've made me (somehow) think even less of the Tories. I am finding myself leaning more and more towards supporting independence, however as I used to be staunchly in favour of the union I'm still on the fence myself.

 

As for the devo max vote, I do support it and would vote for it (but I'm not currently registered to vote anywhere as I'm technically between homes). I can't vote on those questions in the poll though as the form requires that you answer all questions.

[Blackpool Jags]

David Cameron is a feckin erse.

 

Indeed he is an erse. He came up to our hospital last Friday to perform a carefully stage-managed publicity stunt where he spoke to (selected) patients and looked like he gave a shit about the NHS, which clearly he doesn't. I managed to find out where the rascal and his entourage were doing their 'turn' and showed up just outside the ward where our senior management team were assembled to greet him. I got grief off the polis for demanding to know when the b@stard would emerge to face questions on his mob's detested Health & Social Care bill etc.

 

Not saying he did this just because of me and my notorious big gub, but he fecked off out the back stairs with his minders, thereby avoiding any need to face uncomfortable questions from Union reps. Huh! I can understand that, but I would've been speaking as a lifelong follower of an oppressed minority football team.

 

I should add that when Blair and Dobson (the then Health Secretary) came up here in 1998, I tracked them down and fired a few home truths at them. Quite a pisser, on both occasions, seeing what looks like a guard of honour forming from hospital directors even when you know that they don't think much more of the feckers than I do!

[Norgethistle]

Its not Cameron or Salmond that will persuade me but the content of there manifesto, and so far Salmond hasnt came up with anything substantial to prove to me a change will benifit the country, lets put it this way its like a 300 year old marriage breaking up how you going to divide the goods and possetions that the couple have acrued over that time..... it will be messy, will lmake Paul Mccartneys divorce look like a walk in the park

[The Devil's Point]

Its not Cameron or Salmond that will persuade me but the content of there manifesto, and so far Salmond hasnt came up with anything substantial to prove to me a change will benifit the country, lets put it this way its like a 300 year old marriage breaking up how you going to divide the goods and possetions that the couple have acrued over that time..... it will be messy, will lmake Paul Mccartneys divorce look like a walk in the park

 

Agree. We can discuss the referendum when we properly understand the options. At present, the SNP propaganda machine is telling you what to think, rather than providing choices to think about.

 

I'll be voting to stay in the UK although I will read any positive case that can actually be made for independence. Its way past the time for the SNP to deliver. They will cost jobs if their failure to explain their policy position, and the implications for the economy, goes on any longer. I don't think they care about people's jobs though. They only care about fulfilling some sort of barmy mission which will boost their already massively inflated ego's.

 

One way or another the SNP have peaked too soon and they will be destroyed by the referendum if/when they ever have the guts to hold it . They are acting like cowards, hiding from what they know fine well to be the majoirty belief of the Scottish people which is that Scotland should remain part of the United Kingdom. Don't expect votes on who should govern at Holyrood to be the same thing as endorsing seperation from the UK.

 

Why on earth should Scots vote for independence? Lets see the manifesto and the costing, documents which are presumably being hidden to disguise the fact that the Independence sums don't add up.

Edited January 13, 2012 by The Devil's Point

[jaggybunnet]

Indeed he is an erse. He came up to our hospital last Friday to perform a carefully stage-managed publicity stunt where he spoke to (selected) patients and looked like he gave a shit about the NHS, which clearly he doesn't. I managed to find out where the rascal and his entourage were doing their 'turn' and showed up just outside the ward where our senior management team were assembled to greet him. I got grief off the polis for demanding to know when the b@stard would emerge to face questions on his mob's detested Health & Social Care bill etc.

 

Not saying he did this just because of me and my notorious big gub, but he fecked off out the back stairs with his minders, thereby avoiding any need to face uncomfortable questions from Union reps. Huh! I can understand that, but I would've been speaking as a lifelong follower of an oppressed minority football team.

 

I should add that when Blair and Dobson (the then Health Secretary) came up here in 1998, I tracked them down and fired a few home truths at them. Quite a pisser, on both occasions, seeing what looks like a guard of honour forming from hospital directors even when you know that they don't think much more of the feckers than I do!

 

oh dear

[gianlucatoni]

its like a 300 year old marriage breaking up how you going to divide the goods and possetions that

 

mmm - usually in marriage both parties agree to join together - in our case a few wealthy landowners sold the fkin country down the river in 1707

 

- love the double jointed PR BS from westminster that we're all sponging b******* uo here but they're desperate to hold on to us (arguably based on a right good few large oil fields still to be discovered or is that me being cynical?)

[Chicofan]

Ruled by wan kers thats what we are!

 

Cameron.........arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...wheres ma claymore!!!!! Saor Alba ya bas!!!!!!!!

[Jaggernaut]

Agree. We can discuss the referendum when we properly understand the options. At present, the SNP propaganda machine is telling you what to think, rather than providing choices to think about.

 

--And the British nationalist coalition propoganda machine isn't telling you what to think?

 

I'll be voting to stay in the UK although I will read any positive case that can actually be made for independence. Its way past the time for the SNP to deliver. They will cost jobs if their failure to explain their policy position, and the implications for the economy, goes on any longer. I don't think they care about people's jobs though. They only care about fulfilling some sort of barmy mission which will boost their already massively inflated ego's.

 

--What have the British nationalists delivered for Scotland? Why do we have some of the lowest life expectancy and child poverty levels in Europe? Why are we (as "Brits") despised in countries all over the world? I'd suggest it's because for centuries we've been used to inflate the British Empire egos, and still are. To be fair, though, too many Scots have been too willing to play this role, and still are.

 

One way or another the SNP have peaked too soon and they will be destroyed by the referendum if/when they ever have the guts to hold it . They are acting like cowards, hiding from what they know fine well to be the majoirty belief of the Scottish people which is that Scotland should remain part of the United Kingdom. Don't expect votes on who should govern at Holyrood to be the same thing as endorsing seperation from the UK.

 

--Just like devolution would kill (Scottish) nationalism stone dead? Wake up and realize what's going on. Let's wait and see.

 

Why on earth should Scots vote for independence? Lets see the manifesto and the costing, documents which are presumably being hidden to disguise the fact that the Independence sums don't add up.

 

--Why on earth should Scots vote for continued relative povery while most of our taxes goes towards enriching the south-east of England? Dependence sums don't add up.

[The Devil's Point]

 

Our taxes enrich the south east of England? Really, pull another one.

 

We will decide this once and for all over the next couple of years. If you believe in the bampottery of Independence get your arguments ready. You are going to be destroyed.

 

I generally like your views, wit and comments Jaggernaut but we'll never agree on this one.

 

Scotland will make it through this shambles and remain on her feet as part of the United Kingdom where she belongs.

[Chicofan]

 

 

Our taxes enrich the south east of England? Really, pull another one.

 

We will decide this once and for all over the next couple of years. If you believe in the bampottery of Independence get your arguments ready. You are going to be destroyed.

 

I generally like your views, wit and comments Jaggernaut but we'll never agree on this one.

 

Scotland will make it through this shambles and remain on her feet as part of the United Kingdom where she belongs.

Where she belongs?? thats a load of bollocks....do you not mean "where we probably need to stay"???

 

[P-R]

 

 

Our taxes enrich the south east of England? Really, pull another one.

 

We will decide this once and for all over the next couple of years. If you believe in the bampottery of Independence get your arguments ready. You are going to be destroyed.

 

I generally like your views, wit and comments Jaggernaut but we'll never agree on this one.

 

Scotland will make it through this shambles and remain on her feet as part of the United Kingdom where she belongs.

Can somebody tell me why exactly we should stay in a union, watched question time last night and while I thought Nicola sturgeon was poor I wasn't taken in by the "stronger together weaker apart" argument either. I don't think there has been any substance from either side yet but it's early days.

[The Devil's Point]

I don't think there has been any substance from either side yet but it's early days.

 

Don't worry, this is only the pre-match warm up. The arguments, and phrasing, should improve in time for kick off

[Jaggernaut]

Our taxes enrich the south east of England? Really, pull another one.

 

We will decide this once and for all over the next couple of years. If you believe in the bampottery of Independence get your arguments ready. You are going to be destroyed.

 

I generally like your views, wit and comments Jaggernaut but we'll never agree on this one.

 

Scotland will make it through this shambles and remain on her feet as part of the United Kingdom where she belongs.

 

It's now generally acknowledged that the total amount of tax raised in Scotland for the UK is above what should be expected based on Scotland's population.

Calling the desire for independence "bampottery" and claiming that it will "be destroyed" isn't much of an argument, is it?

 

Hopefully Scotland will indeed make it through this phase, and become a nation in its own right again, like so many other nations in recent years that have opted for independence from what they perceived as an unfair union.

 

Oh, and I know that British nationalists prefer to ignore the fact, but none of those nations has ever decided to vote back to being dependent.

[The Devil's Point]

It's now generally acknowledged that the total amount of tax raised in Scotland for the UK is above what should be expected based on Scotland's population.

Calling the desire for independence "bampottery" and claiming that it will "be destroyed" isn't much of an argument, is it?

 

Hopefully Scotland will indeed make it through this phase, and become a nation in its own right again, like so many other nations in recent years that have opted for independence from what they perceived as an unfair union.

 

Oh, and I know that British nationalists prefer to ignore the fact, but none of those nations has ever decided to vote back to being dependent.

 

I refer the honourable gentleman to the comments I made some moments ago

[Jaggernaut]

I refer the honourable gentleman to the comments I made some moments ago

 

Oh, and don't worry; my views, wit and comments will still be there after independence.

 

[The Devil's Point]

Oh, and don't worry; my views, wit and comments will still be there after independence.

 

 

I'm sure the Scottish people will bear that in mind when they go to the polls

[GrantB]

Agree. We can discuss the referendum when we properly understand the options. At present, the SNP propaganda machine is telling you what to think, rather than providing choices to think about.

 

I'll be voting to stay in the UK although I will read any positive case that can actually be made for independence. Its way past the time for the SNP to deliver. They will cost jobs if their failure to explain their policy position, and the implications for the economy, goes on any longer. I don't think they care about people's jobs though. They only care about fulfilling some sort of barmy mission which will boost their already massively inflated ego's.

 

One way or another the SNP have peaked too soon and they will be destroyed by the referendum if/when they ever have the guts to hold it . They are acting like cowards, hiding from what they know fine well to be the majoirty belief of the Scottish people which is that Scotland should remain part of the United Kingdom. Don't expect votes on who should govern at Holyrood to be the same thing as endorsing seperation from the UK.

 

Why on earth should Scots vote for independence? Lets see the manifesto and the costing, documents which are presumably being hidden to disguise the fact that the Independence sums don't add up.

 

It's hard to know quite where to start with this...

 

From where I look at it, it is difficult for me to understand why any Scot would NOT vote for independence unless of course you buy into the nonsense that we are a dependent culture. All the pro union parties do is fling scare stories that we are too small, to weak to stand on our own two feet.

 

Frankly, these kinds of arguments are outdated and embarassing, just as the lies peddled by Labour in the run-up to the 1979 Devolution poll when they told us all that the oil would have run out by the year 2000. It's a bit like a parent telling their child when they are in their mid 20's, that they should not leave home because they'll never make it in the big bad world without them.

 

For me, the only depenency culture that exists is the unionist mob trying to cling on to Scotland as they know they will never be able to fund their illegal wars without our oil revenues.

[The Devil's Point]

it is difficult for me to understand why any Scot would NOT vote for independence

 

Its difficult to know where to start with this.

 

Lets see the numbers. Why can't the SNP outline where the money will come from to fund their pie in the sky policies and promises? Tell us how the sums add up as otherwise its just all about people fuelling their egos and overly romantic dreams.

 

The demands for independence really only play to sentimental and emotional ideas of what Scotland is. If you don't know how to start with addressing this reality, you will have the shock of your life coming whenever your mob finally have the guts to ask the country.

 

I agree we should have a referendum though, and we should respect the outcome. We should all try to debate this sensibly and let the best arguments win

Edited January 13, 2012 by The Devil's Point

[GrantB]

Its difficult to know where to start with this.

 

Lets see the numbers. Why can't the SNP outline where the money will come from to fund their pie in the sky policies and promises? Tell us how the sums add up as otherwise its just all about people fuelling their egos and overly romantic dreams.

 

The demands for independence really only play to sentimental and emotional ideas of what Scotland is. If you don't know how to start with addressing this reality, you will have the shock of your life coming whenever your mob finally have the guts to ask the country.

 

I agree we should have a referendum though, and we should respect the outcome. We should all try to debate this sensibly and let the best arguments win

 

If Scotland is as incapable as you seem to think, ask yourselves WHY the unionist parties are so scared of losing us?

[Paulo]

Ireland did well, didn't they?

 

 

Surely Salmond's age old 'we should be independent because we are Scotland, don't worry it'll all work because we already subsidise everyone' act really has to be given a bit of substance before we jump in and do it for the wrong reasons. Too many people will vote because they want rid of the English, not because they believe Scotland could flourish on its own. It reminds me too much of an OF mentality - As long as the other side lose, we'll be happy.

[GrantB]

Ireland did well, didn't they?

 

 

Surely Salmond's age old 'we should be independent because we are Scotland, don't worry it'll all work because we already subsidise everyone' act really has to be given a bit of substance before we jump in and do it for the wrong reasons. Too many people will vote because they want rid of the English, not because they believe Scotland could flourish on its own. It reminds me too much of an OF mentality - As long as the other side lose, we'll be happy.

 

I've always thought that being independent would actually strengthen our relationship with England rather than the 'be rid of them' attitude that you mention. It would certainly shut the people who blame everything on the English (and then go and vote Labour) up.

[Paulo]

I've always thought that being independent would actually strengthen our relationship with England rather than the 'be rid of them' attitude that you mention. It would certainly shut the people who blame everything on the English (and then go and vote Labour) up.

 

It might, but then it would take a rational and fair point of view to consider this a possibility. I don't consider those qualities are present in abundance among a segment of the Scottish voting public.

[GrantB]

Meant to add that you can't really compare us to Ireland as we have a completely different set of natural resources. Ireland based their economy on manufacturing which was badly hit by the recession (although not so badly hit that they managed to take my old job ) whereas Scotland has a large proportion of GDP in the oil and gas sector.