If You Were Undecided About Scotland, Has Cameron Tipped It For You?

[The Mighty Quinn]

Still a Tory. Sick of this hand out culture that Labour created. Would never vote for those incompetant scum bags. The S.N.P. are jingoist anglophobic scumbags. The B.N.P shout get the blacks out, the S.N.P. shout get the English out. I fail to see the difference. This whole devolution thing is just a massive ego trip for Salmond and Sturgeon. Bravehearts got a lot to answer for too. Before that film came out, the majority of scottish people viewed the S.N.P. as marginal lunatics. That film came out and stirred anti english hatred and the racists at the S.N.P. grabed on to it with both hands

[The Mighty Quinn]

questions also have to be asked as to how Britain would split up all it's assets, were we to leave

[GrantB]

Still a Tory. Sick of this hand out culture that Labour created. Would never vote for those incompetant scum bags. The S.N.P. are jingoist anglophobic scumbags. The B.N.P shout get the blacks out, the S.N.P. shout get the English out. I fail to see the difference. This whole devolution thing is just a massive ego trip for Salmond and Sturgeon. Bravehearts got a lot to answer for too. Before that film came out, the majority of scottish people viewed the S.N.P. as marginal lunatics. That film came out and stirred anti english hatred and the racists at the S.N.P. grabed on to it with both hands

 

If the SNP are as anti English as you claim, why are there English members of the party? Many English people also understand that Scotland and England would be better off (and get on better) as seperate states.

 

As for the Tories, they are making a right pigs ear of the country. Unemployment now at it's highest level since guess who was last in power...

[kni]

Remember in an independence referendum, you are not voting for or against the SNP. You are voting on the single issue of independence. What party governs an independent Scotland will be decided by free elections.

 

Not true, Salmond also wants a vote on devolution max which is not real independence. As I said before, a Scotland in the EU would not be independent. It would be ruled from Brussels.

 

The government to be decided by free elections? The Prime Ministers of the Italian and Greek governments were appointed by the EU. There is not a single elected politician in the Italian cabinet!

 

How would an independent Scotland bail out failed banks like RBS and HBOS? If Scotland votes to leave the UK, Cameron could demand that Scotland buys the UK government's stakes in those banks.

[kni]

If the SNP are as anti English as you claim, why are there English members of the party? Many English people also understand that Scotland and England would be better off (and get on better) as seperate states.

 

As for the Tories, they are making a right pigs ear of the country. Unemployment now at it's highest level since guess who was last in power...

 

Recent polls show that the majority of English voters support Scotland's independence. They do not want Scottish MPs deciding English laws. Scottish MPs forced through a lot of controversial legislation before the last election.

 

The economic crisis in Europe is a major factor in the rise in unemployment. Over the last 10 years, most new jobs have gone to immigrants from EU countries.

Edited January 18, 2012 by kni

[GrantB]

Recent polls show that the majority of English voters support Scotland's independence. They do not want Scottish MPs deciding English laws. Scottish MPs forced through a lot of controversial legislation before the last election.

 

The economic crisis in Europe is a major factor in the rise in unemployment. Over the last 10 years, most new jobs have gone to immigrants from EU countries.

 

SNP members of the Westminster parliament do not vote on English issues. I'm fully in agreement of Scottish MP's not voting on issues that have nothing to do with Scotland.

 

As for your last comment, that borders on xenophobia and flies in the face of the factcheck blog highlighted by John Blutarsky eariler in the thread.

[Norgethistle]

 

 

 

As for the Tories, they are making a right pigs ear of the country. Unemployment now at it's highest level since guess who was last in power...

 

They ate having to clear up from labours financial mess they left us in again, as they did previously, when the chancellor is spending way more than he's bringing in something has to give, and if labour had won the last election we would still have the same unemployment level or higher as they may not have tried to plug the hole in the finances till complete meltdown

[jaggybunnet]

They ate having to clear up from labours financial mess they left us in again, as they did previously, when the chancellor is spending way more than he's bringing in something has to give, and if labour had won the last election we would still have the same unemployment level or higher as they may not have tried to plug the hole in the finances till complete meltdown

 

 

its what happened throughout British history. brown/blair, even when the cash was rolling in spent more than was coming in so Tories have to sort out the crap and get classed as the bad boys

[GrantB]

 

its what happened throughout British history. brown/blair, even when the cash was rolling in spent more than was coming in so Tories have to sort out the crap and get classed as the bad boys

 

Even so, it doesn't give them the excuse to rape the welfare state (i.e. the NHS) using Labour as an excuse.

[jaggybunnet]

Even so, it doesn't give them the excuse to rape the welfare state (i.e. the NHS) using Labour as an excuse.

 

they are not raping it, they (unlike labour) have not cut there budget it might not be going up much but what do you expect, also if its Scotland try blaming the snp they run the nhs Scotland not Westminster but they will still find a way to to blame them.

 

NHS is an over bloated monstrosity that needs reformed, unfortunately the people who need to be laid off are the loads of high paid managers and not nurses

[kni]

SNP members of the Westminster parliament do not vote on English issues. I'm fully in agreement of Scottish MP's not voting on issues that have nothing to do with Scotland.

 

As for your last comment, that borders on xenophobia and flies in the face of the factcheck blog highlighted by John Blutarsky eariler in the thread.

 

It's a fact, not xenophobia. Do you believe everything that Channel 4, a bunch Euro-fantatics, writes?

Edited January 18, 2012 by kni

[KAWB]

What grates on me the most is that at the last Scottish elections, it was apparent that there was no support for a Tory government in Scotland yet we are still governed by them. That in itself is sensless and unjustified.

 

On the can we or can't we debate, there are still many many questions to be answered and policies to be explained. These will start to be raised and answered in the lead up to 2014. There's plenty of time to make your mind up yet.

 

If the SNP can back up what they say then I say its time to go it alone but just voting for an independent Scotland on the basis of national pride won't work. It has to be because we can stand alone financially and grow as a nation as a result of independence.

[GrantB]

It's a fact, not xenophobia. Do you believe everything that Channel 4, a bunch Euro-fantatics, writes?

 

That's one hell of a chip you have on your shoulder!

[alx]

I've not joined in the debate recently....so will start with a general point. Look at the above rambling posts.... You have to remember that lots of very bright people in the SNP have spent years looking into all these issues. They have answers to the vast majority of the usual issues. Most of these answers are really strong and difficult to argue against. I posted the previous white paper in the earlier thread that no doubt was been forgotten already. I don't have much inside knowledge but it's obvious that the SNP are going to have a programme of rolling out various documents and trying to answer the issues in a sensible and measured way.

 

They will not be bounced into things by dangerous nasty people like Michael Forsyth and George Osborne. In particular Osborne has access to the financial books of the UK which makes him a dangerous opponent. The other side of the coin is the laughable rabble in the liberals and labour party (Michael Moore!!!!, Johann Lamont!!!! Margaret Curran!!!!!). These people are too stupid to realise that they have spent years not bothering to find out the actual facts, and will now have rings ran round them. They'll never catch up as they have just left it too late now.

[Blackpool Jags]

If independence does come about - be it for the good or otherwise of the Scottish people - at least there is unlikely to be calls from freaks like Michael Gove that a new royal yacht should be commissioned to mark the Queen's diamond jubilee; and that an independent Scotland should chip in towards it.

 

Surely...

[Norgethistle]

If independence does come about - be it for the good or otherwise of the Scottish people - at least there is unlikely to be calls from freaks like Michael Gove that a new royal yacht should be commissioned to mark the Queen's diamond jubilee; and that an independent Scotland should chip in towards it.

 

Surely...

 

Scotland's chipping in roughly £40million for the yacht fund, from the queens very favourite football team having a wee off shore savings plan that it's now going to give the HMRC

Edited January 19, 2012 by Norgethistle

[GrantB]

If independence does come about - be it for the good or otherwise of the Scottish people - at least there is unlikely to be calls from freaks like Michael Gove that a new royal yacht should be commissioned to mark the Queen's diamond jubilee; and that an independent Scotland should chip in towards it.

 

Surely...

 

Or his equally hair brained scheme to send a King James Bible to every school in the country.

 

The Tories are an utter embarassment in everything they do.

[hamiltonjag]

If independence happens we'd still have auld Lizzie as monarch though, so I reckon we'd have to chip in to keep her and her chinless family.

[Blackpool Jags]

Or his equally hair brained scheme to send a King James Bible to every school in the country.

 

The Tories are an utter embarassment in everything they do.

 

So so true.

 

If independence happens we'd still have auld Lizzie as monarch though, so I reckon we'd have to chip in to keep her and her chinless family.

 

What a horrible thought.

[GrantB]

If independence happens we'd still have auld Lizzie as monarch though, so I reckon we'd have to chip in to keep her and her chinless family.

 

Do the Canadians and Australians chip in for her upkeep as well? Always wondered about that.

 

Personally, I'd want Scotland to rid ourselves once and for all of the leeches that are the 'Royal' family.

[hamiltonjag]

Do the Canadians and Australians chip in for her upkeep as well? Always wondered about that.

 

Personally, I'd want Scotland to rid ourselves once and for all of the leeches that are the 'Royal' family.

Good point, Grant. I read this article in the Guardian (awaits the usual jibes from t*ry Daily Mail readers ;-) ) which gave me cause for dismay: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/wintour-and-watt/2011/may/25/alexsalmond-queen . It appears Mr Salmond doesn't share our contempt for the Windsors.

[yoda-jag]

Do the Canadians and Australians chip in for her upkeep as well? Always wondered about that.

 

Personally, I'd want Scotland to rid ourselves once and for all of the leeches that are the 'Royal' family.

 

AFAIK, they don't chip in.

 

But the Canadians have apparently pledged £10million towards the new yacht. Big of them.

 

 

Also, in related news, Salmond was waving the C4 Factcheck report at the Labcondem opposition and quoting from it at FMQ's yesterday in a GIRFUY moment.

[The Devil's Point]

I've not joined in the debate recently....so will start with a general point. Look at the above rambling posts.... You have to remember that lots of very bright people in the SNP have spent years looking into all these issues. They have answers to the vast majority of the usual issues. Most of these answers are really strong and difficult to argue against. I posted the previous white paper in the earlier thread that no doubt was been forgotten already. I don't have much inside knowledge but it's obvious that the SNP are going to have a programme of rolling out various documents and trying to answer the issues in a sensible and measured way.

 

They will not be bounced into things by dangerous nasty people like Michael Forsyth and George Osborne. In particular Osborne has access to the financial books of the UK which makes him a dangerous opponent. The other side of the coin is the laughable rabble in the liberals and labour party (Michael Moore!!!!, Johann Lamont!!!! Margaret Curran!!!!!). These people are too stupid to realise that they have spent years not bothering to find out the actual facts, and will now have rings ran round them. They'll never catch up as they have just left it too late now.

 

YOU actually think Michael Moore, Johann Lamont and Margaret Curran are too stupid to have bothered to find out the "actual facts"?

 

I bet you couldn't tell me a thing about what Michael Moore has actually said and presumably your dismissal of the other two is based on the fact they are (working class) women. If not, what is it based on?.

 

I suspect all three could hold their own in an argument with your good self.

 

If the SNP are so clever why did they spend three years ranting about saving airbases, before announcing that they will only retain, er, one after the independence fairytale comes true. What about all of the jobs which will be lost along the Clyde because of their defence plans?

 

Maybe they are just too clever to have to answer any questions in the real world and will just wave their magic wands

Edited January 23, 2012 by The Devil's Point

[GrantB]

Michael Moore acts like he actually believes he has a mandate to speak for the Scottish people which goes a long way to tell you just how deluded he actually is. Him and his laughable predecesor Danny Alexander as Liberal Democrats have never had a mandate to do anything and never will unless they sell their souls to the Tory devil.

 

Honestly, it is downright embarassing listening to Scots telling other Scots that we are too stupid to run our own affairs.

[The Devil's Point]

l.

Honestly, it is downright embarassing listening to Scots telling other Scots that we are too stupid to run our own affairs.

 

Agree, and only the SNP are doing this. Most of us are happy to have most issues related to our "affairs" decided by a devolved parliament, while keeping some issues eg defence to be decided at Westminister.

Edited January 23, 2012 by The Devil's Point