McKennan Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 I honestly cannot believe we are willing to sell ourselves like a cheap tart for the prospect of having the lowest form of humanity at our stadium twice next season bringing with them their songs of hate about 300 year old wars in a foreign country. This is not what Partick Thistle FC stand for. We could wait a couple of seasons and build up an immunity, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 We could wait a couple of seasons and build up an immunity, I suppose. It would at least give us a couple of years to get the required innoculations and booster shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas clark Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Dear Jordanhill Jag, There is little or no likelyhood of SEVCO FC being parachuted into SFL1. Indeed they may have to apply to an unscrupulous amateur league. Forget them. If Thistle dies, they will be part of the death of the whole of Scottish football as a professional sport. You might have noticed, in passing, that the years are passing for you too. Soon enough you will arrive at the sunny uplands of being 65+. Then, you too, will be part of the grey pound, a growing section of society at large. Perhaps Thistle will, indeed, be supported by the greys, but they are a growing sector of our society and you should not go around assuming that they are not. So. Consider this. Rangers are not allowed to play football at all. A few of their supporters that feel a gap in their Saturday afternoons, Friday nights, Sunday mornings, whatever, decide to back the Jags intead. Instantly, you get your younger support, you get gate money. Because, of all the teams that are likely to benefit from the demise of The Glasgow Rangers, Thistle is best placed to take advantage of that. But stop. Do you really, really want that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Heron Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) Let's keep my response nice and simple. There is nothing that would justify it. It would be the end of Thistle for me - so with season ticket and Centenary Fund contributions that would already be about £650 annually lost to the club. And that's before you get to any of the other associated expenditures. I've no doubt that there will be financial challenges ahead. But the club can either do the right thing, and we can all pull together to meet those challenges. Or they can either vote for Newco and/or accept the SPL2 bribe money and go to hell. And, for information, I've been advised that I can have a refund on my season ticket should I so wish up to the beginning of the season. Some of the rest of you who have already paid may wish to register your interest in this with the club. Edited June 29, 2012 by Allan Heron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Talk of "I'm an engineer, he's an engineer" Well for what it is worth I'm an underwriter for an insurance company. Effectively I assess risks. One of the principles I have to adhere to is TREATING CUSTOMERS FAIRLY. I should not apply terms to one customer that I would not apply to the other customers. Seems quite relevant in all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) ultimately i think thistle over the years have failed to capitalise in the perception that we were something 'different' to the old firm and then that potential market has been effictivly quashed by the changes taking place at celtic post the fergus mcann era. Then there is the general decline of scottish football vis a vis english football post the creation of the premiership which has been accelarated by poor management of the game by all the revelvant authorities. Although there are specific reasons for rangers current situation eg EBTs, tax dodging, over extension of credit etc, ultimately this came about in the context of the seismic changers afflcting football in this continent with regards to the telvising, sponsorship, general globalisation etc. Remember that a lot of the justifications for the 'rangers revolution' at the time of murray was predicated on the idea that there would eventually be a european super league of which big brand teams would leave behind the shackles of their respective diddy leagues to the global audience. If rangers had been a wee bit more succesfull in europe at that beginning period, then maybe david murray would have been seen as an astute buisnessman knowing how to operate in teh changing climate. But as it happened they soon were unable to compete with the financial resources that were developing in other european countries and were soon left behind. This event with rangers is just the first sign of a process coming into fruition. Another important story to note is the massive decline that celtic - a very well ran brand - have had in regards to selling their merchandise. Walk the streets and i bet youll be able to count more kids with la liga or premiership strips than old firm tops. It is very difficult to talk about integrety when we have witnessed all the abritary changes that have taken place over in scottish football particularly with regards to the SPL. Its almost laughable to cry out football integrety about the current proposals when i doubt we could ever talk about there being such a thing in the first place. Football becomming a professional sport was the original sin of integrity - so its all a shithouse really. For me, i think its pretty much impossible to break out of this demographic timebomb with PTFC. I knew that thistle had kind of fallen out of circulation of public consiousness in scottish society but a few years back when i was working in govanhill as a youthworker in partnership with the trust and the club, i was astounded that there were many young poeple from white working class backgrounds who had never heard of partick thistle. I would have expected this from say newly arrived immigrant groups but i would have never expected it from people who have been a part of this society for generations - thats how much the rot has set in... Maybes Rangers going proper bust ie not getting into SFL 3 could be an opportunity as the old firm brand is effectivly destroyed maybe allowing scope for another glasgow based team to get some more fans - we could be the new subway loyal ... But then this might just be the final thing that bottoms out scottish football and people will stop goign to football completely. As for league construction, again we are in a damned if you do damned if you dont scenario. All diddy team supporters are into the idea of 16/18 team leagues, but as soon as said diddy team is in the SPL then all of a sudden the financial imperative of 4 OF games and the TV money that goes with that is what the chairmen want to defend. So that dream is a non starter. Further, the fact that the Henry McCleish report, that seems to be what the SFA are angling for recommends ten team leagues seems to show that we can forget those ideas - the financial model is too dependant on television money. To conclude my witterings, no matter what happens scottish football is in decline - there is no way to reverse that decline. So the OP question becomes valid, what is in the interests of the club without thinking about scottish football as a totality? For me, the only way to grow the brand of PTFC and get new supporters is to make an application to the northern english leagues. I think recent events has surely shown that there is no way back for scottish football... http://evostikleague.pitchero.com/ Edited June 30, 2012 by mrD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapiti Jag Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 [...]Im willing to trade principle for a JHS with young guys and kids singing Thistle Songs chasing a play off spot through the Season[...] Im not gauging feelings Im putting forward an arguement - so far no one has put forward a solution to our long term problem of no fans. And reorganising the whole of Scottish football to accommodate a single corrupt and bigoted club in our league for a single season is the way to get the JHS jumping with weans? I think not. And neither does anyone else it would seem. The fans out there who are saying no to newco are the very people that you are talking about attracting to Firhill, you vote yes and you'll never see them. How do you think new fans are introduced? Mostly though their parents—you know, the season ticket holders over 50. A yes vote will turn entire families, and future generations, away from PTFC. You need to accept that you're in a tiny, tiny minority with this—there's your "gauging of fan opinion" if you wanted it right there. If you claim to represent OneThistle in any way then I'm seriously worried. You need to start listening. The least you could do would be to post on here that you recognise, as a representative of OneThistle, that the overwhelming majority of PTFC fans are against these proposals. A couple of times I've seen posts from you attempting to minimise the numbers who are opposed. It's nearly 100%. I'd like to see you admit it publicly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted June 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 And reorganising the whole of Scottish football to accommodate a single corrupt and bigoted club in our league for a single season is the way to get the JHS jumping with weans? I think not. And neither does anyone else it would seem. The fans out there who are saying no to newco are the very people that you are talking about attracting to Firhill, you vote yes and you'll never see them. How do you think new fans are introduced? Mostly though their parents—you know, the season ticket holders over 50. A yes vote will turn entire families, and future generations, away from PTFC. You need to accept that you're in a tiny, tiny minority with this—there's your "gauging of fan opinion" if you wanted it right there. If you claim to represent OneThistle in any way then I'm seriously worried. You need to start listening. The least you could do would be to post on here that you recognise, as a representative of OneThistle, that the overwhelming majority of PTFC fans are against these proposals. A couple of times I've seen posts from you attempting to minimise the numbers who are opposed. It's nearly 100%. I'd like to see you admit it publicly. I have clearly stated in the OP Im posting my own opinion it has nothing to do with onethistle ,if I had fallen in line with the majority it would be ok I suppose.I have not minimised I have said A SIGNIFICANT number ,it maybe nearly 100% on the Forum but it would be wrong to translate that into the view of 2000 fans. There is no doubt that there is a majority against Newco however that doesnt mean the majority will stop supporting PTFC - if the Club votes No then I still support PTFC, There are a whole load of teenagers who care not one jot about the principle of Newco Rangers .It will make no difference to them we vote yes or no ,if we have a team challanging for promotion via a play off spot they are more likely to come and watch PTFC than if we are mid table going no where -thats it ,no great principle ,no grand arguement Im prepared to let Newco in if it means we have a playoff spot gauranteed for the next ten years - that gives us a fighting chance to rebuild the Club - **** Newco who cares - THE SPL ,OF they all deserve each other ,sporting integrity - its a professional sport the richest Club wins the league so who are we kidding, This is a forum reasoned debate is welcomed I have put forward a reasonable arguement ,not a popular one but none the less reasoned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapiti Jag Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 its a professional sport the richest Club wins the league so who are we kidding, Only if they're in it. If we sell the soul of the club to make that happen then we're clearly kidding no-one, quite the opposite—we'd be admitting to all and sundry that we are nothing but Sevco's bitches and we'll never, NEVER, be able to take a principled stand on anything ever again. PTFC supporters will be ridiculed and shamed wherever they go, and there'll be no snappy comeback lines available. If this happens then the club is utterly worthless and certainly not worthy of the support of the teenagers who currently don't care one jot about Sevco. As for translating the opposition on here to the general Thistle support: have you seen the various fans' surveys? The opposition is above 90% across the board I think you are just choosing not to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Well, I've just waded through 7 pages of this, and frankly I find it hard to believe that somebody who claims to be a PTFC supporter is actively campaigning for the defunct h u n s to be given special treatment and allowed direct entry to the 1st division in the next few weeks. I am another who has e-mailed the club to state that I will be seeking a refund for my season ticket should this come about. What's the point of paying money to see a competition which is so explicitly rigged, and when your own club is involved in rigging it to the benefit of other clubs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) The bits you have highlighted are facts - tell me where I have it wrong - your arguement is what ,give me your solution to our problems.As for Engineers they seem to be able to count They can't spell 'argument' though. They also have an irritating habit of randomly starting common nouns with a capital. Edited June 30, 2012 by Charlie Endell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 My son's just out that age bracket at 21 but he'll chuck it if there's a yes vote. He's only a Jags fan because of me so it's fair to assume that there's very little chance his children will end up Jags fans.. Same goes for my two boys 21 and 19!! In fact they feel more strongly about all this that their dad and believe me I am fizzing at the clubs stance regarding this matter. So dont think the club isnt chasing youngsters away as well with all this carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One t in Scotland Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Its not financial - its a big empty stadium full of OId Men - I have stated clearly Im willing to trade principle for a JHS with young guys and kids singing Thistle Songs chasing a play off spot through the Season - thats it I would vote yes for the chance to see this Aye there will be a queue a mile long down Firhill Road to witness that glorious season where we challenge for 4th position. Not sure I like your disparaging dismissal of loyal Jags men as 'old men' either. I'm sure many external factors are swaying your opinion but I'll be generous and suggest you're just a bit naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 It would at least give us a couple of years to get the required innoculations and booster shots. Sound idea. Hang on ... did I just read the phrase 'an empty stadium full of old men' somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) another point to make in this topic is that the whole of the SFL footballing community are against this, if you take Cowdenbeath out of the equasion and no surprises there, except our club. Feelings are reaching fever pitch. Due to the internet, fans now have a real say. The tide appears to be turning, so much so that a prominent bookie has opened a book and has Dongcaster at 4/6 to lose his job and Reagan at 11/10. We risk being alienated over our boards stance in this matter with away fans boycotting Firhill in droves. Dont underestimate fan power, whether they are 15 or 80 years of age Looks like the diddy's are revolting!!! http://www.dailymail...sion-clubs.html Edited June 30, 2012 by Lindau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 What's the point of paying money to see a competition which is so explicitly rigged, and when your own club is involved in rigging it to the benefit of other clubs? Thank you for that one. That's another objection I neglected to mention. I might add that I'm kind of p*ssed off that my club and other SFL sides have been lumped with the SPL's problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 The sweet rain of riches from a £1m television deal - how will they work? It's only in place because each game will involve Rangers. That's a kitty of £27,000 a game over a season. I doubt there'll be a 50/50 split here. A split of 67/33 might be somewhat generous as well. Maybe it'll be more in favour of the cash-strapped Rangers when it's a home game south of the river. If Thistle plays Rangers four times that's £36,000 in the bank. Factor in other matchday income such as hospitality sellouts at two Firhill games plus a crowd double or treble what we see most weeks. Is a quick shag with Rangers worth so much to Thistle that it can blithely turn its back on the opinions of fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Hamilton have joined forces with the other SFL clubs to say NO to NEWCO entering Div 1 Frankly our club is becoming an embarrassment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One t in Scotland Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Various figures being talked up in press but from what I can gather £100 K minimium - this is not an official figure I hasten to add Please explain how you calculate this figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) I have clearly stated in the OP Im posting my own opinion it has nothing to do with onethistle ,if I had fallen in line with the majority it would be ok I suppose.I have not minimised I have said A SIGNIFICANT number ,it maybe nearly 100% on the Forum but it would be wrong to translate that into the view of 2000 fans. There is no doubt that there is a majority against Newco however that doesnt mean the majority will stop supporting PTFC - if the Club votes No then I still support PTFC, So as a representative of onethistle who has offered to canvas the opinions of said 2000 fans. How are you going to reach out to the rest of them? & shouldn't it be done very soon? I'm willing to bet 90%+ of those fans will say no- only my opinion. I gauge that number on the strength of feeling and posts on numerous social networking sites as well as this forum. You can check the polls on here also where 90%+ have voted against a Newco going anywhere other than applying to Div 3 or being expelled. As for the last comment I quoted. I sincerely hope you don't believe that. If that is also Beatttie's opinion then the club is done for. Mark my words. THE MAJORITY WILL WALK AWAY. This is high stakes poker but no bluffing going on here. Edited June 30, 2012 by Trotter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 A one time post, for old times sakes. I was up for this season. A few of us were buying season tickets, then Mr Beattie opened his mouth just to prove again that the people involved running this football club are clueless and out of touch. I have to say i am very disappointed with JJ. I've known him a long time and i think he's just plain wrong. His argument is a Thistle version of the Neil Doncaster one : do this or else it ends in oblivion. It's exactly the same as the Rangers argument: Partick Thistle before Scottish football. In short it's bullshit. It might also be useful to remind ourselves that in the last 40 years, we have only played around 6 seasons in the top league. Not because we've been cheated out of a second promotion place, but because we have been rotten. Despite being rotten, we still turn up. Being a Partick Thistle fan has never been and never will be about winning things.It's not about play off places. It's not about the SPL. It's certainly not about the lure of a top six finish. It's about going along to support your team with your friends and family and passing the torch It's about experiencing the lows and savouring the limited highs. You know when things started to go wrong? When we started talking about business plans. And marketing plans. And strategy documents. When we started listening to ars*holes like Souness and Murray. Clowns like Doncaster and Lex Gold. This is about doing the right thing. For Scottish football. In these types of situations, i think it makes sense to imagine 5 or 10 years ahead. Then look back to now. How do Partick Thistle fans want to be thought of? Which side are we on? I'd rather Partick Thistle played in the juniors than signed up to Newco in SFL1. Furthermore, anyone in an official/unofficial capacity at Firhill who is pushing the newco thing should resign immediately. They aren't fit to hold the position. One Thistle? I would say this thread proves we are at one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 "All along the watchtower the princes kept their view ..." Any chance of a firm statement of intent by the time I get home from work this evening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
three jags Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Nothing Hope you're feeding this back JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 We can only hope that the few people like JJ and (possibly) David Beattie take on board the seriousness of this situation. By voting "Yes" to allowing the defunct h u n s into Divison 1, PTFC might well be signing its own death warrant. And will the defunct h u n s come to our rescue when that happens? What do you think? By contrast, by coming out with a resounding "No" even before it gets to any kind of vote, watch season ticket sales and pay-as-you-go numbers rise fast. Oh, and be safe in the knowledge that sporting integrity was considered paramount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) F**k it, I'm gona bang this drum again. What we need is 2 top leagues of 16 and a league of 12 (with a pyramid system below that) starting in time for season 2013/14. Simple really, but here's how it can bring about the balance between sporting integrity and commercialism that everyone seems to want. SPL/SFL1 promotion would continue as is for the coming season (1 up 1 down), and those finishing 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th would make up SPFL1 with the other 11 SPL teams. Newco win SFL3 (because that's the ONLY league they should be allowed to play in, at best) and go into SPFL2 along with the bottom 5 SFL1 teams, the relegated SPL team and the other 9 SFL2 teams. Bottom SFL2 team this season coming drops to the new SPFL3 along with the 9 remaining SFL3 teams (and could even continue with the play-offs for this season too). Then SPFL take applications from others for the 2 slots created by league reconstruction. That reduces Newcos time out of the top league by a year, sporting integrity will have been salvaged (if it at all can be due to this saga), ALL clubs will benefit financially as Newco climb the leagues and gives us the kind of league reconstruction the majority of us are wanting. Teams coming with Newco from SFL3 to SPFL2 will benefit from 2 seasons of Newco, but they are the ones who need it the most anyway. So Jim, you ask for solutions...there's my suggestion. We still look for a top 4 finish top 5 finish, but instead of a play-off we get promotion. We still allow Newco to have a lesser amount of time out of the top flight (potentially 2 years instead of 3). We maintain the balance between sporting integrity and commercialism, we get league reconstruction that is badly needed but that also has a whiff of 'helping Newco get back to the top league quickly' (as oppossed to a fudged plan that is solely and simply to the benefit of one team (and I guess the SPL cowards who are gona vote NO to Newco in their league but expect us to vote YES so the SPL clubs get Newco back asap). Now, tell me where this doesn't work? Tell me this won't get the fans interested in next season more than any other? If Thistle oppose the current proposals, and if this kind of restructuring is done, then I put it to you that this type of thing will see Thistle thrive...short term and long term. As an added bonus, the whole of Scottish football will thrive. Focus on the game, dont chase the money!! Edited June 30, 2012 by Steven H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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