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[brian-]

We're partick thistle( fans).........well moan when we can

[lewcal]

Still absolutely gutted with result.feels like a defeat.a draw was just about right as smith had a couple of really good saves second half but I felt we had done enough to take the 3pts.At the time I thought welsh was doing the right thing,fouling where he was as they were always dangerous on the counter.saying that tho I hadn't even realised he was booked!! Agree with most about Forbes. He's a talented player with the ball at his feet but very lazy and pedestrian without it. Big Archie was superb today and I thought if everyone had his and Paul patons desire we would be sitting top of the league right now.couple of the boys don't seem to want it enough of late.on a positive note,we're only two points behind with two games in hand and if I was offered this scenario at this stage at the start of the season I would probably have taken it.

[Lindau]

If we want to win the league we can't afford to have a player like that. We are all in it together as the prime minister ( wrongly says). We need everyone to dig in for certain matches so therefore are u saying he shpuld just play some games and avoid others?or should he up his game and get stuck in against" lesser "teams?

 

What a load of utter crap and sums up exactly what is wrong with Scottish football!!

[Lindau]

No, but he didn't do much to help help his team earn the point either when the backs were against the wall.

 

There are mitigating circumstances; he isn't fit. But his two cards were ridiculous (especially for bloody dissent) and did nothing for the cause.

 

If this is the case, the guy you should be criticising should be the manager for playing him

[Guest fredthecheesecloth]

 

 

I can't guarantee anything. I can only call it as I see it. Can you guarantee that we would have got the 3 points if Welsh hadn't been sent off?

 

Have your opinion but to suggest a player has disgraced himself and should be suffer a fine as result is just ridiculous.

 

I don't remember you on here calling for Craig to be fined and calling him a disgrace when he got the red card in the Cove game? Or was that ok because we won?

 

Get off your high horse. The guy made a mistake, took to twitter and said sorry. What more do you want?

 

Welsh didn't cost us a victory.

 

So because I didn't criticise him on here means I didn't find it pathetic. I don't know if you can fine loan players, but I certainly would have as it was petulant.

 

The guy messed up, knew he had immediately as you could tell by his reaction BEFORE the card was shown, and cost us 2 points.

 

I don't like horses.

[1876Jag]

 

 

If this is the case, the guy you should be criticising should be the manager for playing him

 

Indeed. Which I did.

[The Earl of Hathaway]

out of your 6 points,2 were against Forbes. Not a fan?

Funnily enough, I am a fan of Forbes. i think he's a great footballer to watch, really skilful and for the first time in.....decades? he makes me think a corner is for scoring goals from. However, he isn't a box to box player and has a certain reluctance to get involved in the blood and snotters bit of the game. I'd like it if he was both these things too, but (as has been said about other players in the past) he wouldn't be with us then.

[1876Jag]

 

 

Why do you feel the need to pin point one player and lay all the blame at their feet? What other players didn't help today?

 

Because he did nothing. Totally anonymous. The other 10 carried him and all contributed.

[1876Jag]

Just,just in had a fleeting glance through this thread some of the drivel on here is appalling,Sean welsh made a tackle/ foul which was for the team he got a second yellow sometimes these things happen,if we look at his first then Archie/ jackie should shoulder the blame as it was so obviously not a free kick let alone a booking that led to it ,we obviously don't have a policy on complaining during matchtime

As far as some comments re Forbes totally unwarranted he is a class above ok some times he appears to be lazy but his skill factor over the piece more than makes up for it.

let's not forget that this team we have now are the best we've had for decades.support them don't slag them

 

Welsh was booked for dissent, which is more than a quiet questioning of the decision. if it was against our player, we would have been shouting for the foul. It's the referee's interpretation so he should button it; it was always going to be a 50/50 call.

Edited January 6, 2013 by 1876Jag

[1876Jag]

So in reading the last few posts in the thread. Forbes is a class above so it's ok for him to do nothing for most of the game!

 

Fair enough if that's how you see it.

 

Remind me where Forbes was playing at start of this season?

 

Guy has plenty of talent & ability. I just don't think he displays it often enough.

 

Watch him next week when he goes to close a player down. Runs within a few yards of him then turns sideways.

 

If the ball not at his feet, he doesn't want to know or work to get it back.

 

I think some people are taking liberties by saying he doesn't meet to get stuck in as he's not renowned for tackles & got two yellows to get sent off vs Morton.

 

Give me a break.

 

Mind you, that probably explains why it was Dumbarton he was playing with at start of season.

 

The boy is skilful, has a good left foot & can pick a pass BUT he needs to work harder for the team. He's probably got more ability than a lot of Premier League midfielders but there's a reason why he's not playing there now.

 

Right so lets have a team of hammer throwers and Darren Brady/Jimmy Gibson types then shall we? Headless chickens with no creativity but at least they get stuck in.

 

So what where he was at the start of the season? Where was Muirhead last year? Or Doolan and Erskine where they came? Or most of our team for that matter?

[Trotter]

Muirhead, Doolan & Erskine are making their way up the leagues.

 

The 3 players you mention there have all been linked with moves to premier league this season.

 

Forbes was released by a premier league side & ended up playing part time with Dumbarton.

 

I'll say again, I'm not doubting his ability but there must've been a reason why no one else came in for him when released by Mofherwell.

 

Thee must've been a reason why he hardly featured last couple of years for Motherwell.

 

I tend to agree with 1876jag that yesterday he was carried by the other 10.

[jaggybunnet]

So in reading the last few posts in the thread. Forbes is a class above so it's ok for him to do nothing for most of the game!

 

Fair enough if that's how you see it.

 

Remind me where Forbes was playing at start of this season?

 

Guy has plenty of talent & ability. I just don't think he displays it often enough.

 

Watch him next week when he goes to close a player down. Runs within a few yards of him then turns sideways.

 

If the ball not at his feet, he doesn't want to know or work to get it back.

 

I think some people are taking liberties by saying he doesn't meet to get stuck in as he's not renowned for tackles & got two yellows to get sent off vs Morton.

 

Give me a break.

 

Mind you, that probably explains why it was Dumbarton he was playing with at start of season.

 

The boy is skilful, has a good left foot & can pick a pass BUT he needs to work harder for the team. He's probably got more ability than a lot of Premier League midfielders but there's a reason why he's not playing there now.

 

Exactly.

 

when livie were taking us apart in the midfield we needed something different forbes and welsh untill he is match fit were not it so should have been subbed, simples

 

i am NOT saying he shouldnt play/start just at that moment he was not the best player to have on the pitch, cant be that hard to grasp.

Edited January 6, 2013 by jaggybunnet

[jagfox]

Forbes was training with Dunfermline in the close season. Didn't have a good game yesterday but I don't think he was lazy. In fact he was supporting the forward in the second half and was part of our breaks. Again if he had slotted home in stead of passing to Craig maybe he wouldn't have been taking so much flak after the game?

[Jaggyman]

We win as a team and lose as a team singling out players achieves nothing i know its all about opinions but slating guys and saying they should be fined on here is silly really. Forbes and Welsh seem to be the ones taking the flack, so say Jackie decided that these two had to come off as lots are suggesting should have happened we might have lost 3-2 or even worse we will never know. Personally i thought Archie had a decent game but was caught out at their equaliser just my opinion and i would in no way want to slate him for it. I thought we sat too deep in the 2nd half and gave all the impetus to Livvy and on reflection over the 90 mins a draw was a fair result as both teams could lay claim to have had chances to win it. Just before they scored i was thinking about the game last season where we played them off the park for most of it but conceded a wonder strike in the last minute to lose----i really hate going there

[1876Jag]

 

 

Exactly.

 

when livie were taking us apart in the midfield we needed something different forbes and welsh untill he is match fit were not it so should have been subbed, simples

 

i am NOT saying he shouldnt play/start just at that moment he was not the best player to have on the pitch, cant be that hard to grasp.

 

So where does any creativity come from then.

 

Last week when he didn't play we were dire and lumping balls forward, bypassing the midfield entirely. Is that preferable then?

[Trotter]

Where did the creativity come from at start of season when Forbes was still playing with Dumbarton?

[Jagtastic]

 

 

So where does any creativity come from then.

 

Last week when he didn't play we were dire and lumping balls forward, bypassing the midfield entirely. Is that preferable then?

 

Well for me, livi's shape in midfield changed completely when erskine came on. They were quite clearly more concerned with having two men cover him than press the middle with that extra man. Players that can get the ball down and run with it drag the other teams players out of position and unsettle their formation. I don't think Forbes offers this. He has an unbelievable touch, great delivery and passing range but I think later in the game yesterday we needed someone to take the ball to livi and erskine should have been on much earlier to do that.

[1876Jag]

Muirhead, Doolan & Erskine are making their way up the leagues.

 

The 3 players you mention there have all been linked with moves to premier league this season.

 

Forbes was released by a premier league side & ended up playing part time with Dumbarton.

 

I'll say again, I'm not doubting his ability but there must've been a reason why no one else came in for him when released by Mofherwell.

 

Thee must've been a reason why he hardly featured last couple of years for Motherwell.

 

I tend to agree with 1876jag that yesterday he was carried by the other 10.

 

You could make exactly the same argument for Lawless and Balatoni.

 

To clarify, mainly due to what I perceive to be a lack of fitness due to injury the team carried Welsh not Forbes yesterday. Don't know if that was clear in your last post.

[1876Jag]

 

 

Well for me, livi's shape in midfield changed completely when erskine came on. They were quite clearly more concerned with having two men cover him than press the middle with that extra man. Players that can get the ball down and run with it drag the other teams players out of position and unsettle their formation. I don't think Forbes offers this. He has an unbelievable touch, great delivery and passing range but I think later in the game yesterday we needed someone to take the ball to livi and erskine should have been on much earlier to do that.

 

I agree, but for Welsh not Forbes.

[1876Jag]

Where did the creativity come from at start of season when Forbes was still playing with Dumbarton?

 

A fit Welsh with Paton further up and Murray doing the graft work in front of the defence with lawless and Erskine both starting.

Edited January 6, 2013 by 1876Jag

[Trotter]

 

 

You could make exactly the same argument for Lawless and Balatoni.

 

To clarify, mainly due to what I perceive to be a lack of fitness due to injury the team carried Welsh not Forbes yesterday. Don't know if that was clear in your last post.

 

& my point is whilst agreeing with you to a large extent on Welsh, he put in more effort than Forbes yesterday. Guess that means we were carrying two players yesterday!

 

There us a difference between Balatoni/ Lawless compared with Forbes. Both them were young men never given an opportunity at their respective PL clubs.

 

Forbes had plenty chances but for whatever reason was released. He then found himself unable to get fixed up by a full time club & ended up part time at Dumbarton.

 

I'll say again, he has the ability. He's shown that in flashes but for me doesn't do it enough. & for me was the passenger yesterday not Welsh.

[Trotter]

 

 

A fit Welsh with Paton further up and Murray doing the graft work in front of the defence with lawless and Erskine both starting.

 

So no Forbes creativity?

 

Look, we're not going to agree here.

 

I came on initially because of the flak Welsh getting. I'm willing to bet good money that Welsh coveted more ground yesterday, completed more passes, won more tackles & more headers, attempted more crosses & had more attempts on goal than Forbes.

 

I think what's been missing from our team over past few months is a fit Welsh. He's got a fortnight now before Falkirk game.

 

Forbes can prove me wrong next week vs the bottom of the league.

[Pie Of The Month]

Forbes had interest from Morton and Dunfermline before deciding to go out to Romania because a club out there was interested before realising it wasn't for him.

 

By the time he got back the interest was gone as they had used their budget elsewhere. Let's not pretend that Forbes is a dreadful player who got lucky. He played for win bonuses until last month simply because he was either badly advised or made some stupid decisions himself.

[Gordie]

Let's get this into context. Forbes is being critised for being poor in 1 game. It's not bad form, 1 game, he was poor yesterday.

[potty trained]

 

 

A fit Welsh with Paton further up and Murray doing the graft work in front of the defence with lawless and Erskine both starting.

 

Exactly, we have a wealth of creative players in the team, we don't need to rely on Forbes.

 

Paton, for me is a better option in that position than forbes. At the start of the season patons passing out wide put muirhead and bannigan in behind opposition defenders, Forbes body shape and style when on the ball mean the majority of his passes go out to the left wing and are to the man instead of infront, into space.

 

Plus patons ability to work beside Murray gave us 2 defensive midfielders.

 

I'm not saying Forbes isn't a bad player, at times he is a joy to watch, but he does get caught a lot. The similarities with Charnley are incredible. But those similarities shouldn't mean he's a first pick every week.

 

From the threads, and talking to folk it seems the big issue yesterday was our midfield as a whole were over run. Playing. 4.1.3.2 left a big gap between Paton and the 3 especially as 2 of the three were a combination of unfit and having an off day.

 

For me, I sound like a broken record, but with the amount of away games we have, and the fact that teams know our style, we need Murray back in and push Paton further forward. We need to keep the ball longer, stop lumping it up the park giving them the ball.

 

Murray drops deep, takes the ball and plays it about in a triangle with the centre halves, allowing the wing backs to move forward into space. That's the one thing Paton doesn't do is drop deep to take the ball off the centre halves.

 

I'd play Murray, bannigan and Paton in the 3. Get solid, defend together and keep the ball. Welsh isn't fit yet, so he shouldn't be starting.