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Jaggernaut
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Blackpool Jags what you say is valid but that is all non Scottish issues. GrantB said no Scot would vote Lib Dem again but what they have been criticised about is impacting England and Wales and not Scottish devolved institutions.

 

People don't understand devolution and the split of policy between Holyrood and Westminster. That is another reason why I think this referendum has come to early. If the No/Better Together campaign educate people on the current powers of Holyrood. the new powers that it will get soon and possible changes in the future that will take a lot of wind out of the nationalists sails. There is definitely not enough media and public scrutiny on Holyrood Parliament which I hope will change with the new devolution approach Scotland will take (hopefully).

 

Except they won't do that, and do you know why? Because there are no new powers on their way soon, or none that are likely to make any significant difference to most people's lives anyway.

 

Had Devo Max been an option then I am certain it would have won comfortably. However, it isn't, meaning September's vote really is all or nothing.

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The Scotland Act 2012 will give additional powers to Holyrood and Labour, Liberal Democrats and Conservatives are currently looking at improving the devolved system of government should Scotland vote No. Democracy can be a slow and boring process with devolution only 20 odd years of evolution. It's not unnatural for politicians to demand more and more power for themselves but it should be in the best interests of the country as a whole not the politicians.

 

The SNP have their wish of removing Scotland from the UK via a referendum vote. Why would they ever go for Devo Max?

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The SNP have their wish of removing Scotland from the UK via a referendum vote. Why would they ever go for Devo Max?

I suppose it could be argued that if significantly greater powers were given to the Scottish Government, the so-called Devo Max, then after several years and another couple of wars waged by the UK in the name of "good and world peace", then it might be even easier for Scots to decide to become fully independent. But in fact Devo Max cannot work, and that's why it wasn't offered and won't be offered by Westminster. What would it include? Immigration? How could new immigrants in Scotland be prevented from disappearing to England? Defence? What would rUK do with its beloved nuclear weapons, and how could they afford to continue to pay to be a member of this exclusive club? Broadcasting? How could the BBC continue to function at its current level under Devo Max?So, it has come down indeed to all or nothing in the Referendum (not nothing, but less, as Westminster prepares to cut up to 4 billion quid from the Scottish budget). It is clear that Westminster has lied to Scotland for decades, regardless of who was in power, has used Scots as cannon fodder in too many wars, and continues to peddle the "too wee, too poor, too stupid" line in Project Fear. Vote YES.
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I suppose it could be argued that if significantly greater powers were given to the Scottish Government, the so-called Devo Max, then after several years and another couple of wars waged by the UK in the name of "good and world peace", then it might be even easier for Scots to decide to become fully independent. But in fact Devo Max cannot work, and that's why it wasn't offered and won't be offered by Westminster. What would it include? Immigration? How could new immigrants in Scotland be prevented from disappearing to England? Defence? What would rUK do with its beloved nuclear weapons, and how could they afford to continue to pay to be a member of this exclusive club? Broadcasting? How could the BBC continue to function at its current level under Devo Max?So, it has come down indeed to all or nothing in the Referendum (not nothing, but less, as Westminster prepares to cut up to 4 billion quid from the Scottish budget). It is clear that Westminster has lied to Scotland for decades, regardless of who was in power, has used Scots as cannon fodder in too many wars, and continues to peddle the "too wee, too poor, too stupid" line in Project Fear. Vote YES.

 

One vote, go independant or not, not call a vote every few years to see if the voters can be wained down if the vote is NO (as i believe it will) the Alex can disband his party and go on to after dinner speaches, as there will be no need for a Scottish Nationalist Party as the country will have voted against Nationalistic Independance

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The Scotland Act 2012 will give additional powers to Holyrood and Labour, Liberal Democrats and Conservatives are currently looking at improving the devolved system of government should Scotland vote No. Democracy can be a slow and boring process with devolution only 20 odd years of evolution. It's not unnatural for politicians to demand more and more power for themselves but it should be in the best interests of the country as a whole not the politicians.

 

The SNP have their wish of removing Scotland from the UK via a referendum vote. Why would they ever go for Devo Max?

 

If memory serves, the two most significant powers of 2012 Scotland Act included limited borrowing powers and the ability to set a new rate of income tax. The latter looks quite promising on the surface, except that - if I understand correctly - Holyrood will have to either use their new powers to increase income tax or slash public spending, on account of the fact that Westminster will reduce the block grant as a consequence of 'gifting' us these new tax raising powers.

 

As for the unionist parties thinking about looking at the possibility of maybe improving the devo set up, well, we have been here before:

 

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For what it's worth, I think if Labour offered devo max for Scotland in their next manifesto it would be more or game over for the Yes side. I would be amazed if they did though, because their considerable support in the north east of England are already extremely twitchy about the concept of Scotland gaining additional powers within the union.

 

I suppose it could be argued that if significantly greater powers were given to the Scottish Government, the so-called Devo Max, then after several years and another couple of wars waged by the UK in the name of "good and world peace", then it might be even easier for Scots to decide to become fully independent. But in fact Devo Max cannot work, and that's why it wasn't offered and won't be offered by Westminster. What would it include? Immigration? How could new immigrants in Scotland be prevented from disappearing to England? Defence? What would rUK do with its beloved nuclear weapons, and how could they afford to continue to pay to be a member of this exclusive club? Broadcasting? How could the BBC continue to function at its current level under Devo Max?So, it has come down indeed to all or nothing in the Referendum (not nothing, but less, as Westminster prepares to cut up to 4 billion quid from the Scottish budget). It is clear that Westminster has lied to Scotland for decades, regardless of who was in power, has used Scots as cannon fodder in too many wars, and continues to peddle the "too wee, too poor, too stupid" line in Project Fear. Vote YES.

 

I think the SNP would have been happy to have had the devo max option on there but the unionists didn't want to present Salmond with a consolation prize.

 

In essence, though, people wouldn't have known what they were voting for with devo max, unless some pre-negotiation took place beforehand. I would have thought that some matters - most notably defence, foreign policy and immigration - would have had to remain reserved. Full responsibility for tax and social security could have been transferred more easily though.

 

I believe other devolved parliaments, such as the Quebecois administration, have more powers than Scotland's, so it could have been workable.

 

 

 

One vote, go independant or not, not call a vote every few years to see if the voters can be wained down if the vote is NO (as i believe it will) the Alex can disband his party and go on to after dinner speaches, as there will be no need for a Scottish Nationalist Party as the country will have voted against Nationalistic Independance

 

You are Ian Davidson and I claim my £20.

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