One Word Post - Should Scotland Be An Independent Country? Yes Or No.

[Norgethistle]

 

Your lack of compassion for such a serious social problem speaks volumes. I don't even have to ask if you're a Tory.

 

So how exactly is an Independant Scotland going to do what the rest of Europe has failed to do?

[The Jukebox Rebel]

Norge, the amount of people affected by poverty in Scotland today is way out of hand. For a country of our resource potential it's shameful.

 

There are politicians deseperate to re-direct our wealth. Selfless people in politics for the right reasons - to do the best they can to make a difference for the people.

 

 

West Scotland MSP Stuart McMillan said:

 

“The way communities have come together to set up foodbanks and support people in need has been absolutely inspiring and we owe these people a huge debt of gratitude.

 

“However, in 21st Century Scotland, it is ridiculous that anyone should suffer from food poverty. The UK Government’s welfare cuts have thrown some of the most vulnerable people in Scotland into poverty and SCVO has made clear that the application of retrospective sanctions has made matters worse.

 

“However, it is not just those who are unemployed who are suffering. Growing numbers of people who rely on foodbanks are in work, demonstrating the problems caused by underemployment and low pay.

 

“In an independent Scotland, the Scottish Government would set up a Fair Work Commission, to ensure that the minimum wage rises at least in line with inflation every year, and would have the powers to create a welfare system that works for Scotland and ensures our most vulnerable people aren’t penalised.

 

“A fair welfare system and fair pay will mean that an independent Scotland can finally end the scandal of food poverty and ensure that reliance on foodbanks becomes a thing of the past.”

[The Jukebox Rebel]

by Scott Macnab, Scotsman, 11th August 2014

 

 

AN independent Scotland could bring an end to the use of food banks, Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said today.

 

The Scottish Government today unveiled more than £500,000 of funding for 26 food aid projects around the country as new figures showed a 400 per cent jump in their use among hard-pressed Scots in recent years.

 

The SNP Deputy leader said the Coalition Government’s benefit cuts are behind the sudden rise, but a Yes vote in next month’s independence referendum could allow Scotland to bring an end to food banks.

 

Ms Sturgeon said: “I don’t want a society where anyone is reliant on emergency food aid, but as long as we’re in a position of Westminster imposing policies that the majority of people in Scotland don’t want then that’s a situation we’re going to have to deal with.

 

“Far better that we have the powers in our own hands, access to our own resources and over time, not by waving a magic wand, we create a system whereby we don’t have people going to food banks to feed themselves.”

 

Ms Sturgeon said demand for food banks will not “disappear” the day after independence, and that it would be a long term goal if Scotland had power over welfare.

 

“We should aspire to have a country without food banks,” she added.

 

According to the Trussell Trust, the number of people who used their food banks in Scotland between 1st April 2013 and 31st March 2014 rose to 71,428 which is a 400 per cent increase and five times the number compared to the previous financial year. This includes more than 22,000 children who used food banks during this time period.

 

The Scottish Government’s Emergency Food Fund (EFF) is part of a £1 million investment in food aid, with £500,000 already committed to charity FareShare which redistributes surplus food from retailers to charities supporting their local communities.

 

Today’s funding of £518,000 will deliver help in 17 local authority areas. Ms Sturgeon made the announcement during a visit to Greater Maryhill Food Bank which is to receive almost £40,000.

[jaggybunnet]

Your lack of compassion for such a serious social problem speaks volumes. I don't even have to ask if you're a Tory.

 

get over yourself and join the real world.

[jaggybunnet]

by Scott Macnab, Scotsman, 11th August 2014 AN independent Scotland could bring an end to the use of food banks, Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said today. The Scottish Government today unveiled more than £500,000 of funding for 26 food aid projects around the country as new figures showed a 400 per cent jump in their use among hard-pressed Scots in recent years. The SNP Deputy leader said the Coalition Government’s benefit cuts are behind the sudden rise, but a Yes vote in next month’s independence referendum could allow Scotland to bring an end to food banks. Ms Sturgeon said: “I don’t want a society where anyone is reliant on emergency food aid, but as long as we’re in a position of Westminster imposing policies that the majority of people in Scotland don’t want then that’s a situation we’re going to have to deal with. “Far better that we have the powers in our own hands, access to our own resources and over time, not by waving a magic wand, we create a system whereby we don’t have people going to food banks to feed themselves.” Ms Sturgeon said demand for food banks will not “disappear” the day after independence, and that it would be a long term goal if Scotland had power over welfare. “We should aspire to have a country without food banks,” she added. According to the Trussell Trust, the number of people who used their food banks in Scotland between 1st April 2013 and 31st March 2014 rose to 71,428 which is a 400 per cent increase and five times the number compared to the previous financial year. This includes more than 22,000 children who used food banks during this time period. The Scottish Government’s Emergency Food Fund (EFF) is part of a £1 million investment in food aid, with £500,000 already committed to charity FareShare which redistributes surplus food from retailers to charities supporting their local communities. Today’s funding of £518,000 will deliver help in 17 local authority areas. Ms Sturgeon made the announcement during a visit to Greater Maryhill Food Bank which is to receive almost £40,000.

 

so even more pie in the sky unfunded promises that they can actually provide, if Norway with there masses of money cant do it how the hell would a skint Scotland?

[The Jukebox Rebel]

Are you for real? Norway's foodbank problem in comparison to ours is miniscule as comprehensively demonstrated earlier on this thread. It's a poor, poor comparison and actually serves against your own argument. i'm surprised that you're persevering with it.

 

A skint Scotland? Join the real world mate.

 

There are hundreds of nations all over the world showing graphs on TV on how an Scotland would be one of the richest nations on the planet.

 

The only TV station that doesn't is "ours" - the British Broadcasting Corporation.

 

Time to look past Team Britain Media Inc. and get to the facts and the truth.

 

Oh, and by the way, Israel are commiting genocide in Palestine. Despite the BBC telling you otherwise.

[The Jukebox Rebel]

Sorry for ranting a bit but I'm pretty pissed off with the BBC right now with their disgraceful, non-subtle union bias in the last week.

 

You expect it from the papers but not from the chief State broadcaster.

 

Impartial they ain't.

[jaggybunnet]

Are you for real? Norway's foodbank problem in comparison to ours is minuscule as comprehensively demonstrated earlier on this thread. It's a poor, poor comparison and actually serves against your own argument. i'm surprised that you're persevering with it.

 

is it minuscule. "Every Friday anywhere between 500 and 700 people queue up outside to collect a food pack which is made up from donated food and goods."

 

http://anewlifeinnorway.wordpress.com/2011/09/02/the-poverty-house-in-oslo-fattighuset/

 

i am sure that NorgeThistle may know more.

 

A skint Scotland? Join the real world mate.

 

how will Scotland deal with that deficit or the debt that we will take on or the loss of subsidies and grants from the eu or the higher interest rates, cost of living and mortgages we will get when we have to go it alone with the currency. i am in the real world which is why i ask these questions that the yes camp wont/cant answer.

 

There are hundreds of nations all over the world showing graphs on TV on how an Scotland would be one of the richest nations on the planet.

 

The only TV station that doesn't is "ours" - the British Broadcasting Corporation.

 

Time to look past Team Britain Media Inc. and get to the facts and the truth.

 

Oh, and by the way, Israel are commiting genocide in Palestine. Despite the BBC telling you otherwise.

 

as for Israel, that is a different thread which i am more than happy to discuss with you

[Norgethistle]

All this from the SNP who decided against a "living wage" and went for a minimum wage

 

All this from the SNP who spent £1.3 million of tax payers money (3 times the food bank pledge) on the white paper

 

All this from the SNP who spent millions putting Gaelic road and rail signs throughout Scotland

 

All this from SNP who's 1st minister jets to the states to see the golf at our expense (or yours) staying in top hotels and billing the tax payer again for tartan trousers

 

All this from the SNP who could have raised income tax by 3% to divert money to help the needy but never and blamed Westminster

 

Please don't give me the SNP can do it better they have diverted millions for a tartan dream

[The Jukebox Rebel]

^^ Yes, we'll leave Israel 'til after 18th September I think...

 

Right come on then jb, let's try and the truthful, honest facts out in the open.

 

Latest figures tell that 71,428 different Scots used a food bank in the year April 2013-March 2014.

 

What is the equivalent in Norway? A few thousand?

 

 

^ The SG balance is much preferable to the Westminster equivalent, that's for sure. Your first minister jibe is cheap and laughable. Down South they could teach you a thing or two about expenses scandal.

 

Those are all rather small sums in the grand scheme of things. John Swinney has balanced the books for several years in a row despite the burden of the UK debt run up in our name. And still managed to deliver free prescriptions and no tuition fees.

 

Imagine what he could do with £70bn pa (or whatever our turnover is) and no war machine to support.

[Guy Incognito]

Sorry for ranting a bit but I'm pretty pissed off with the BBC right now with their disgraceful, non-subtle union bias in the last week.

 

You expect it from the papers but not from the chief State broadcaster.

 

Impartial they ain't.

 

Stay positive. They want you to get pissed off and throw in the towel. What we have seen this week is a bombardment of negativity and propaganda from the UK establishment; a coming together of big business and individuals with no interest in us or our country other than self-interest and personal gain. It is bullying, and the best way to deal with bullies - the only way to deal with bullies - is to stand up to them. Luckily, all we need to do to rid ourselves of these vampires is go to a polling station and vote Yes.

 

This was never going to a fair fight but we are still in with a shout. There may be unanswered questions and flaws in the plans of Salmond and Co. but this week, more than any, has highlighted which side of the debate genuinely has Scotland's best interest at heart. The fact that we are almost neck and neck in the polls in the face of what they have thrown at us is an achievement in itself. Chin up!

[Dragon]

Then - in the name of democracy - let us use that power - let us all unite. Let us fight for a new world - a decent world that will give men a chance to work - that will give youth a future and old age a security. By the promise of these things, brutes have risen to power. But they lie! They do not fulfil that promise. They never will!

[Norgethistle]

^^ Yes, we'll leave Israel 'til after 18th September I think...

 

Right come on then jb, let's try and the truthful, honest facts out in the open.

 

Latest figures tell that 71,428 different Scots used a food bank in the year April 2013-March 2014.

 

What is the equivalent in Norway? A few thousand?

 

 

^ The SG balance is much preferable to the Westminster equivalent, that's for sure. Your first minister jibe is cheap and laughable. Down South they could teach you a thing or two about expenses scandal.

 

Those are all rather small sums in the grand scheme of things. John Swinney has balanced the books for several years in a row despite the burden of the UK debt run up in our name. And still managed to deliver free prescriptions and no tuition fees.

 

Imagine what he could do with £70bn pa (or whatever our turnover is) and no war machine to support.

 

The SG go on about how Westminster are all about themselves, the waste of taxpayers money for SNP propaganda shows they are doing it not for the people but for their agenda.

Rail and road signs, plus the white paper come to over £5 million, how much could that help the poor, and let's not mention the 2 court cases trying to silence the telegraph again at tax payers money. The SG is proving that corruption runs to the core of politics

[Fawlty Towers]

A plea to those campaigning at Firhill tomorrow, regardless of side, please keep it civil and remember there will be people there who just want a few hours away from the weekly grind and to hopefully watch their team win - please respect them.

 

Thanks in advance.

[The Jukebox Rebel]

Stay positive. They want you to get pissed off and throw in the towel. What we have seen this week is a bombardment of negativity and propaganda from the UK establishment; a coming together of big business and individuals with no interest in us or our country other than self-interest and personal gain. It is bullying, and the best way to deal with bullies - the only way to deal with bullies - is to stand up to them. Luckily, all we need to do to rid ourselves of these vampires is go to a polling station and vote Yes.

 

This was never going to a fair fight but we are still in with a shout. There may be unanswered questions and flaws in the plans of Salmond and Co. but this week, more than any, has highlighted which side of the debate genuinely has Scotland's best interest at heart. The fact that we are almost neck and neck in the polls in the face of what they have thrown at us is an achievement in itself. Chin up!

 

I’ll tell you what though – this campaign has been a right eye-opener has it not? I never fully appreciated the length, depth and breadth of the UK propaganda machine and how it could be so intricately networked on multi-platforms. And how it could be so blatantly and unanimously prepared to misrepresent the truth. It truly has a formidable strength. The Queen is the only part of the British Establishment with any credibility left intact.

 

I reckon if our grass-roots, social media, one to one conversation campaign prevails it will be Scotland’s greatest victory in all of history.

 

 

Then - in the name of democracy - let us use that power - let us all unite. Let us fight for a new world - a decent world that will give men a chance to work - that will give youth a future and old age a security. By the promise of these things, brutes have risen to power. But they lie! They do not fulfil that promise. They never will!

Greed has poisoned men’s souls! We should never give in to these brutes, men who despise us, enslave us, who regiment our lives, tell us what to do, what to think!

 

 

The SG go on about how Westminster are all about themselves, the waste of taxpayers money for SNP propaganda shows they are doing it not for the people but for their agenda.

Rail and road signs, plus the white paper come to over £5 million, how much could that help the poor, and let's not mention the 2 court cases trying to silence the telegraph again at tax payers money. The SG is proving that corruption runs to the core of politics

??? But the people are the SNP’s agenda. And the people gave the SNP a mandate to ask the independence question. £1M for the White Paper will be the bargain of the century if the answer’s yes.

 

You’re complaining about a measly million quid whilst your lot has pledged to continue with the Trident nuclear weapon system at a cost of £100bn? At least the White Paper had a use.

[Norgethistle]

 

??? But the people are the SNP’s agenda. And the people gave the SNP a mandate to ask the independence question. £1M for the White Paper will be the bargain of the century if the answer’s yes.

 

You’re complaining about a measly million quid whilst your lot has pledged to continue with the Trident nuclear weapon system at a cost of £100bn? At least the White Paper had a use.

 

Are they?? Only 50% of the electorate turned up to vote, with the SNP getting 45% of the vote, so only 23% (900,000) actually voted them in

The UK general elections 65% of the electorate turned up to vote with 878,400 voted for the coalition in Scotland again 23% of the electorate voted for them

 

The same % of the electorate in Scotland voted in the current UK parliament as turned in the Scottish parliament, yet the Scottish parliament represents the people whilst the UK one doesn't

[Guy Incognito]

I’ll tell you what though – this campaign has been a right eye-opener has it not? I never fully appreciated the length, depth and breadth of the UK propaganda machine and how it could be so intricately networked on multi-platforms. And how it could be so blatantly and unanimously prepared to misrepresent the truth. It truly has a formidable strength. The Queen is the only part of the British Establishment with any credibility left intact.

 

I reckon if our grass-roots, social media, one to one conversation campaign prevails it will be Scotland’s greatest victory in all of history.

 

You're not wrong. The first time I became aware of it was when the UK invaded Iraq. I have noticed it since, to a lesser extent, with regards to striking workers, particularly recent public sector industrial action. This week has probably been on a par with what we got before the Iraq war though (if not worse).

 

Thankfully, unlike in 2003, we now have social media. Without it, the Yes campaign would have no chance of a fair hearing.

[Guy Incognito]

A plea to those campaigning at Firhill tomorrow, regardless of side, please keep it civil and remember there will be people there who just want a few hours away from the weekly grind and to hopefully watch their team win - please respect them.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Well, the only campaigning I plan on doing today is campaigning vigorously down at Firhill for a (real) Jags victory.

 

Two hours of no politics at the end of this week sounds like bliss!

[Granville Island]

Strange lack of prominence given by the BBC to the huge NO campaign rally taking place through Edinburgh just now - especially in light of the alacrity with which they have been acting as a mouthpiece for said campaign. Does anyone know if today's rally was the reason for the New Rainjurs game being switched to last night?

[jaggybunnet]

^^ Yes, we'll leave Israel 'til after 18th September I think...

 

Right come on then jb, let's try and the truthful, honest facts out in the open.

 

Latest figures tell that 71,428 different Scots used a food bank in the year April 2013-March 2014.

 

What is the equivalent in Norway? A few thousand?

 

did you read my post at all. that one food bank did 500 - 700 every week.

 

 

^ The SG balance is much preferable to the Westminster equivalent, that's for sure. Your first minister jibe is cheap and laughable. Down South they could teach you a thing or two about expenses scandal.

 

What Jibe?

 

Those are all rather small sums in the grand scheme of things. John Swinney has balanced the books for several years in a row despite the burden of the UK debt run up in our name. And still managed to deliver free prescriptions and no tuition fees.

 

you mean the free prescription that cost Scotland £1.18 BN last year up £34 Mil on the year before alone, those that can afford it should pay for it. As for tuition fees yes they should pay for it and the English way is the best i have seen.

 

 

Imagine what he could do with £70bn pa (or whatever our turnover is) and no war machine to support.

 

£70 bn where did you pick that number out of?

 

War machine that gave me a giggle.

 

[jaggybunnet]

I’ll tell you what though – this campaign has been a right eye-opener has it not? I never fully appreciated the length, depth and breadth of the UK propaganda machine and how it could be so intricately networked on multi-platforms. And how it could be so blatantly and unanimously prepared to misrepresent the truth. It truly has a formidable strength. The Queen is the only part of the British Establishment with any credibility left intact.

 

I reckon if our grass-roots, social media, one to one conversation campaign prevails it will be Scotland’s greatest victory in all of history.

 

 

 

Greed has poisoned men’s souls! We should never give in to these brutes, men who despise us, enslave us, who regiment our lives, tell us what to do, what to think!

 

 

 

??? But the people are the SNP’s agenda. And the people gave the SNP a mandate to ask the independence question. £1M for the White Paper will be the bargain of the century if the answer’s yes.

 

seriously what planet are you on, the snp vote was a protest vote nothing more, and even then they could only get less than a third of those that were able to vote

 

You’re complaining about a measly million quid whilst your lot has pledged to continue with the Trident nuclear weapon system at a cost of £100bn? At least the White Paper had a use.

 

yes, toilet paper and even then it left a rash.

 

[kni]

Strange lack of prominence given by the BBC to the huge NO campaign rally taking place through Edinburgh just now - especially in light of the alacrity with which they have been acting as a mouthpiece for said campaign. Does anyone know if today's rally was the reason for the New Rainjurs game being switched to last night?

 

Sorry to debunk your conspiracy theory but BT Sport selected it as its Friday night game.

 

ETA - Friday 19 September: Partick Thistle v St Mirren - 7.45pm

Edited September 13, 2014 by kni

[The Devil's Point]

The fact that we are almost neck and neck in the polls in the face of what they have thrown at us is an achievement in itself. Chin up!

 

What has been thrown at you? Facts? Common Sense?

 

I have no particular objection to Scotland becoming Independent, but anyone who thinks we are ready now is completely barking. Er, you actually need to know stuff about what your currency arrangements are and where you are getting money from before you do it. If we were in the middle of a boom then that might be one thing, and if there was a properly thought out proposition fair enough. But there are neither of those things, there is only risk, massive risk.

 

But is it all scaremongering? - the banks moving, massive job losses in finance, shipbuilding etc, no fiscal control (at best, no lender of last resort at worst), security weakened, loss of influence via G8, NATO, EU etc. Uncertainy, uncertainy, uncertainty. Risk, risk, risk.

 

Seems to me that doubts are being cast by people who have no reason to scaremonger - Japanese and German Banks as well as all sorts of experts (although both sides have those). As for The Establishment, well if they were in charge we'd never have had anything other than Tory governments, and we certainly wouldn't have had devolution. Of course Cameron wanted supermarkets to say they would raise prices, that is an important piece of information that the voters need to be aware of.

 

But one man, and his clone, know everything and hordes of people seem to hang on to their words. None of their supporters ever seem to ask for evidence to back their promises. Its all about hearing what you want to hear, and avoiding the most obvious, yet seemingly too difficult, questions. Everyone is wrong apart from you, and its all a great conspiracy. Do you realise how stupid that sounds?

 

Look closely and you will see the King has no clothes.

[Guy Incognito]

 

 

What has been thrown at you? Facts? Common Sense?

 

I have no particular objection to Scotland becoming Independent, but anyone who thinks we are ready now is completely barking. Er, you actually need to know stuff about what your currency arrangements are and where you are getting money from before you do it. If we were in the middle of a boom then that might be one thing, and if there was a properly thought out proposition fair enough. But there are neither of those things, there is only risk, massive risk.

 

But is it all scaremongering? - the banks moving, massive job losses in finance, shipbuilding etc, no fiscal control (at best, no lender of last resort at worst), security weakened, loss of influence via G8, NATO, EU etc. Uncertainy, uncertainy, uncertainty. Risk, risk, risk.

 

Seems to me that doubts are being cast by people who have no reason to scaremonger - Japanese and German Banks as well as all sorts of experts (although both sides have those). As for The Establishment, well if they were in charge we'd never have had anything other than Tory governments, and we certainly wouldn't have had devolution. Of course Cameron wanted supermarkets to say they would raise prices, that is an important piece of information that the voters need to be aware of.

 

But one man, and his clone, know everything and hordes of people seem to hang on to their words. None of their supporters ever seem to ask for evidence to back their promises. Its all about hearing what you want to hear, and avoiding the most obvious, yet seemingly too difficult, questions. Everyone is wrong apart from you, and its all a great conspiracy. Do you realise how stupid that sounds?

 

Look closely and you will see the King has no clothes.

 

Facts and common sense, eh? How very subjective. Your mind is clearly closed on this subject, but I will pay you the courtesy of a response.

 

Life is peppered with risks and uncertainty. If we vote No we still face risk and uncertainty. If we were having this debate when Scotland was booming you would no doubt be arguing that we would be "barking" to consider leaving.

 

We have had two years of scaremongering from the No side, such as the implication that businesses will, for some reason, up and leave. Firstly, none have clearly stated that they will and secondly, in abandoning a highly-skilled workforce they would be cutting their noses off to spite their faces. As for shipbuilding, in Scotland it has dwindled to the point where it is almost on its last legs - and that is while we remain part of the UK.

 

Outwith the fact that there is no logical basis behind the claim that supermarkets might 'have' to increase their prices, do you honestly think that Cameron gives a flying one about the average Scot's shopping bill? The man is only interested in keeping his job and if frightening enough people into voting No achieves that, then so be it. Many of the businesses people hinting at leaving in the event of a Yes vote are Tory backers and Cameron has asked a few favours. Only someone naïve or completely blinkered could fail to wonder if there is another agenda at work here.

 

You talk of a reduced 'influence' on the world, but how much influence do we have at the moment? Actually, how much influence do we have in our own country? We often don't even get the government we vote for! An independent Scotland might only have a small voice on the world stage but it is an improvement on no voice at all.

 

The reason we have devolution in the first place is to keep us sweet and to try and stave off the threat of independence. The parliament was even structured in such a way that an overall majority for any party was almost impossible; the result in 2011 was unprecedented and unexpected.

 

I certainly don't hang on the words of Salmond. In fact, independence is possibly the only thing he and I see eye to eye on and even then I don't particularly favour his brand of the stuff. Luckily, unless Salmond is immortal, he won't be around forever and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he called it a day in the event of a Yes vote. I also believe that there are enough bright, talented people in this country to make it a success, but I feel the country is being stifled at the moment by being part of the UK.

 

Nowhere have I said or even suggested that everyone is wrong apart from me. I have stated my opinions on this thread and have tried to respect those of others, even where we have differed. Our opinions clearly differ. I can accept that, even though it seems to irk you.

 

Ultimately, I just want my country to make its own decisions. I don't see what is objectionable about that.

[kni]

^ Guy, under Salmond's Sterling-isation policy, the Bank of England will make the key economic decisions. Holyrood will not be making decisions on monetary policy or setting interest rates. Surely that is objectionable to you.