Make Sure You Print This

[The Incredible Adam Spark]

no money for players BOD full of skin flints

One of them recently funded the signing of a player we were all hoping to see put pen to paper. Would you rather they put their hand in their pockets a la Callum Melville and Dougie Rae (although that appears to be happening less and less) and put us in an even more perilous position than we currently find ourselves in?

[Woodstock Jag]

All he needed to do was resign from Thistle and he could have been away so no compensation would have been required surely.

 

In-so-doing completely ignoring the nature of fixed term contracts. It's not that simple Third Lanark.

 

There are typically 4 ways a manager can leave a Club:

 

1. He resigns to take-up another post. In this event he has breached his contract and the Club is entitled to compensation from him.

 

2. He is sacked. Depending on the reason and the terms of his contract the manager may or may not be entitled to compensation because the Club has breached the contract.

 

3. Another Club agrees a compensation package with the Club to buy-out a manager's contract. This is, generally, the preferred course of action to 1, but if relations turn sour, 1 may occur.

 

4. Manager leaves by mutual consent: it would cost the Club a large fee to pay-out the contract to get rid of the manager, but the manager agrees to leave for a lesser compensatory fee or waives it completely.

 

Under virtually no circumstances could McCall just "resign" and see Thistle get nothing. The only exception would be if his contract had a release clause with no financial recourse attached to it.

[John Blutarsky]

Shoe string budget = foot of the league this season.

 

= roughly 60% of clubs in the 1st division at the foot of the league.

[uberteeb]

Our budget may be small but its simply not true to say no money has been made available to McCall, he has not been given as much money as he wanted (no manager ever is) but he has been given money for players. He has brought in dross and we have only ever lost 2 good players (1 of which wasn't that good anyway). But this thread is not about McCall's signings, its about his tactics and I suppose his motivational ability as well.

 

And as I've said before, thinking McCall is a hopeless manager does not have any impact on my support for the team. I'll still go to all the games, shout, sing, etc.

 

Do the people defending McCall think his tactics are any good? I mean do you like to see high balls punted at Buchanan and do you like the 3 mph sideways passing game where nobody makes any runs? The players might not be the best in the world but it is him who tells them what to do on the park. And yes, as he likes to remind us, he can't be on the park to put the ball in the net himself.

[Vladimir Putin]

 

 

I don't think we'll sack him, either, and I'm not necessarily calling for it, but I won't sit here and watch people put him on a pedestal.

 

Has it really got to the stage where Thistle fans will back McCall's unfounded (IMO) criticism of our support, but he himself is beyond reproach?

 

Nobody is putting him on a pedestal or saying he is beyond reproach. His failings should be acknowledged, and most people in this thread defending McCall have done so. Some very questionable signings, especially short-term ones, and some strange tactics mostly involving high balls to Sid and Buchanan.

 

But we have to be realistic. The only name put forward so far as a possible replacement is Gus McPherson, and he would not be well received by the support. You have said there are other managers out there, and that we go for the same old faces. Who are the alternatives?

 

Also, for the poster who thinks Bryce would have turned out better than McCall - what on earth is this based on? Bryce managed to lose 7 games in a row in Division 2, and was never heard of again. McCall at least has a track record of taking teams with little money and making them competitive in Division 1.

[Guest Argus]

Nobody is putting him on a pedestal or saying he is beyond reproach. His failings should be acknowledged, and most people in this thread defending McCall have done so. Some very questionable signings, especially short-term ones, and some strange tactics mostly involving high balls to Sid and Buchanan.

 

But we have to be realistic. The only name put forward so far as a possible replacement is Gus McPherson, and he would not be well received by the support. You have said there are other managers out there, and that we go for the same old faces. Who are the alternatives?

 

Also, for the poster who thinks Bryce would have turned out better than McCall - what on earth is this based on? Bryce managed to lose 7 games in a row in Division 2, and was never heard of again. McCall at least has a track record of taking teams with little money and making them competitive in Division 1.

 

Bryce was never given a chance in totally different circumstances. He had a mainly part time team he had to play in himself with a club that was bust. If you think we have no money now, think back to then.

[Winter of '63]

Don't ever lose your passion for the Jags, Uberteeb - the bad news is I've been hoping since about 1982 that they'll get better...

[The Incredible Adam Spark]

Nobody is putting him on a pedestal

 

You have said there are other managers out there, and that we go for the same old faces. Who are the alternatives?

Of course they are.

 

Do you have to suggest an alternative before criticism of McCall can be taken seriously? If teams in Scotland were to truly undergo a rigorous recruitment process then better alternatives could be found. There's hundreds of managers out there. Look at the Italian Livi appointed a few seasons ago, for instance. Sure, he may have made some balmy comments, but he had them playing excellent football.

 

I seem to remember us knocking back a manager with fresh ideas a good few seasons back in favour of two familiar faces. He went on to boss a team in the Premiership. They're out there.

[twinny]

Perhaps there is a better man than McCall. I don't think he's dong as bad a job as some think, but then again I don't get to many matches. I would be concerned about the board's ability to hire a replacement if he was to be sacked, and wouldn't trust them to do that job.

[The Incredible Adam Spark]

I would be concerned about the board's ability to hire a replacement if he was to be sacked, and wouldn't trust them to do that job.

Ditto.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

 

I'm old enough and I'll agree that we have had a load of crap managers over years, but I'll tell you what, I think Tommy Bryce, if he had the support that both Campbell and McCall have had would be a better manager.

Gotta ask the question tho'. Given that leaving Firhill at that time couldn't have been too much a blot on his CV why did Tommy not go on to have a more illustrious career in management?

 

To be honest I'll be content if we can mark time (league position wise) as long as there's significant development of the youth structure to show for our troubles. I'll credit McCall for his strength of character to both initiate and see that thru. In truth if the youth development comes good and productive the argument as to the quality of McCall's tactical team management will be a long way secondary.

[Winter of '63]

To be honest I'll be content if we can mark time (league position wise) as long as there's significant development of the youth structure to show for our troubles. I'll credit McCall for his strength of character to both initiate and see that thru. In truth if the youth development comes good and productive the argument as to the quality of McCall's tactical team management will be a long way secondary.

Agree entirely

[Vladimir Putin]

 

 

Do you have to suggest an alternative before criticism of McCall can be taken seriously?

 

Certainly not. You do have to suggest an alternative (a realistic, affordable one) before you demand that the club spend what I assume would be a substantial amount of money we can hardly afford on sacking McCall (I know you haven't called for this, but others have). When we sacked Campbell, and before that the Chuckle Brothers, we were so bad that almost anyone else would be an improvement. That's not the case just now.

 

 

 

I seem to remember us knocking back a manager with fresh ideas a good few seasons back in favour of two familiar faces. He went on to boss a team in the Premiership. They're out there.

 

The Mowbray argument doesn't really work. When he started at Hibs he had guys like Riordan, Brown, Whittaker etc, who he could encourage to play the sort of football he wanted. If he had started at Thistle he would have had nobody of anywhere near that ability, and there's no guarantee he would have been a success.

[Santana]

Cannot accept that statement.

 

Sid has been one of the best players at Thistle since Chic left.

 

And it cuts both ways. Re the others you defame above, the other side of the coin is that the same manager signed Harkins, Twaddle, Cairney and Rowson., who have all been more than acceptable performers for the Jags.

 

That's ridiculous. Donnelly is pretty ineffective. I don't understand Thistle fans who think he is some sort of genuis player.

 

And, the bad signings outweigh the good ones, unfortunately.

[Santana]

All he needed to do was resign from Thistle and he could have been away so no compensation would have been required surely.

 

Regarding your Falkirk and Motherwell didnt hear about it - are you supposed to? Or do you know people at these clubs?

 

Simple fact is the game last week was not great and yesterdays was terrible but I dont really recall a Manager being sacked in many places for winning 2 games out of 2 regardless of how bad they played.

 

THat was just specualtion amongst fans. Was there a formal approach made? I don't think so.

[Third Lanark]

THat was just specualtion amongst fans. Was there a formal approach made? I don't think so.

The Falkirk fans I have spoken to told me that the Bairns did try to sign McCall then.

Have no idea what the situation was at Motherwell if there was any approach or anything.

[The Incredible Adam Spark]

The Falkirk fans I have spoken to told me that the Bairns did try to sign McCall then.

It's the first I've heard of it and I live there and socialise with Falkirk fans on a daily basis. Many of them do have an intimate knowledge of the goings on at the club.

[Third Lanark]

It's the first I've heard of it and I live there and socialise with Falkirk fans on a daily basis. Many of them do have an intimate knowledge of the goings on at the club.

I lived in Linlithgow for 25 years not to far from Falkirk so it was a couple of guys there who were Bairns supporters who told me they had been after McCall a couple of years back when John Hughes was away.

[Woodstock Jag]

"Ahm more of a Falkirk Man than you, Third Lanark."

 

"Naw, ahm more of a Falkirk man than you, The Incredible Adam Spark."

 

"But yer no."

 

"Pat Clarke."

[The Incredible Adam Spark]

I lived in Linlithgow for 25 years not to far from Falkirk so it was a couple of guys there who were Bairns supporters who told me they had been after McCall a couple of years back when John Hughes was away.

Sounds like more agent-incited gossip to me. After all, Falkirk were managerless at the time of McCall's contract negotiations.

[uberteeb]

Why would Gus McPherson not be welcomed at Firhill? His track record is better than McCall's is it not?

 

And that was only one name I put out there, I do not believe there are no promising managers in the lower divisions in Scotland, how about at Conference level in England? Morton got Moore of Stirling, what was his track record? I'd have loved to sign him.

 

Danny Lennon has shown that young up and coming managers can go places, what was his managerial record before Cowdenbeath? What was Adams' before he took charge at County?

[uberteeb]

Don't ever lose your passion for the Jags, Uberteeb - the bad news is I've been hoping since about 1982 that they'll get better...

 

I've not lost my passion for the Jags however I do hope they will get better. I was dragged along when I was in nappies and have been going more or less ever since, I do not expect us to be playing the kind of football we see on Sky TV, I do not expect us to be bringing in star names and I do not expect us to be thrilled each week.

 

What I do hope is that the team are motivated, that they know what they are doing, that they do the basics right and that the manager uses what he has at his disposal as well as he can. McCall fails on all those counts in my opinion.

[Guest Argus]

Gotta ask the question tho'. Given that leaving Firhill at that time couldn't have been too much a blot on his CV why did Tommy not go on to have a more illustrious career in management?

To be honest I'll be content if we can mark time (league position wise) as long as there's significant development of the youth structure to show for our troubles. I'll credit McCall for his strength of character to both initiate and see that thru. In truth if the youth development comes good and productive the argument as to the quality of McCall's tactical team management will be a long way secondary.

 

The straight answer is he didn't want to. A taste of management with us was enough to convince him not to continue.

[The Earl of Hathaway]

It seems apparent to me that hiring a manager is a fraught and ultimately fruitless process - hire a bad one and it's plainly obvious to experts like ourselves, hire a good one and he's off like snow off a dyke. I'm not McCall's number one fan, but it seems to me that he's better than Campbell, Bryce, Collins, Whyte/Britton and probably McVeigh (who had a bombsite to work with). Is the answer then to hire a fairly mediocre manager who doesn't risk his neck and signs average players who'll just about keep you in the League? As an example, I don't think anyone would have wanted to put the kibosh on the signing of Stevie Lovell, but look how that turned out...

[1 John Lambie]

Haven't read all of this thread, so not sure if this has been said, but.. If McCall was to leave, we would be almost certain to end up having a manager out of: Donnelly, Maxy, Archie or McNamara. Is that much of an improvement?