Mr Bunny Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I don't know then what you mean by "sentiment". Good point. If I guy is on contract with you he is entitled to all the help, support he requires. Even if the club were mere money grabbers it makes sense long term to treat your players right - some guy you really want to sign in future may look at the club's past record of treating their players and decide, no that club's not for me. Being able to show we've got good facilities for training and treatment of injuries is important - and the club's record of being willing to look after players will count too. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 in any other walk of life he would have been paid off through capability. Welsh was a good player for us but I believe his career in top league football is over. if he does come back I would wager it very doubtful he will last three month before breaking down again. All sentiment aside Thistle cant afford to rely on him, his sick record would choke a horse, perhaps a coaching position job but for footballing it is not promising. No chance, guy gets injured at work doing his job as he's been instructed and you try to pay him off, he'd take any firm to the cleaners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhs Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) No chance, guy gets injured at work doing his job as he's been instructed and you try to pay him off, he'd take any firm to the cleaners If you are on a fixed term contract and the employer pays you what you would be due (i.e. remainder of contracted wages/salary) from the contract, I don't see how the employee could argue against that. Happens all the time in football. I'm not saying it's right but if he got the monies due the he can't complain really. He can take the time to find a new contract. I wouldn't like Thistle to do that to Welsh though. Edited July 22, 2014 by mhs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabbath Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 No chance, guy gets injured at work doing his job as he's been instructed and you try to pay him off, he'd take any firm to the cleaners Whilst it is true you can’t just pump someone for being on the sick, capability allows you to pay them off if they are unable to fulfil their contracted duties. Sean is seriously lacking when it comes to honouring his footballing duties. The perpetual “six weeks” sick line, for thistle with limited finance is unacceptable. When it comes to sentiment I would love for Sean to remain in football, my fear is he will break down, if this happens again then releasing him must be an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Whilst it is true you can’t just pump someone for being on the sick, capability allows you to pay them off if they are unable to fulfil their contracted duties. Sean is seriously lacking when it comes to honouring his footballing duties. The perpetual “six weeks” sick line, for thistle with limited finance is unacceptable. When it comes to sentiment I would love for Sean to remain in football, my fear is he will break down, if this happens again then releasing him must be an option. Think it would be stupid to get rid of Sean Welsh just now, everyone knows a fit Sean Welsh is going to be an asset to the team, seem to remember Liam Buchanan being out for ages with this type of injury, at this moment in time with our lack of signings a fit Welsh would stroll back into the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 No chance, guy gets injured at work doing his job as he's been instructed and you try to pay him off, he'd take any firm to the cleaners Perhaps in Norway, but in a Scotland that is rapidly becoming a Thatcherite's wet dream, no chance. Have you looked at the costs of going to an Employment Tribunal recently? Just registering a claim of that kind is £250; getting it heard is £950. That doesn't include any other costs, such as legal representation, money to live on while the claim is in the queue, etc. You really don't want to know the fate of those people that actually end up winning a claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Perhaps in Norway, but in a Scotland that is rapidly becoming a Thatcherite's wet dream, no chance. Have you looked at the costs of going to an Employment Tribunal recently? Just registering a claim of that kind is £250; getting it heard is £950. That doesn't include any other costs, such as legal representation, money to live on while the claim is in the queue, etc. You really don't want to know the fate of those people that actually end up winning a claim. Or pay the union dues and allow them to fight it for you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Or pay the union dues and allow them to fight it for you lol well seen you live in Norway. What's left of the unions in the UK have next to no power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 lol well seen you live in Norway. What's left of the unions in the UK have next to no power. I may be mistaken by I don't believe the trade union laws have been changed since 1992 when I was still a steward and acting full timer (till 2001) the union still have some of the best employment lawyers out there, it may not get your job back but it may get you compo, and at no cost to yourself bar your union dues, and going back on track as Welsh is probably part of the players union the last thing we as a club would like is to be seen to be in dispute with the union representing the rest of our players and not to mention the morale to the rest of the team when one of their mates gets dumped for getting injured, players may think twice about challenging for 50/50 balls let alone 40/60 balls if in the back of their mind getting injured gets them cast out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 (edited) You are indeed mistaken, Norgethistle: the most recent change to Employment Law dates from October last year: the anti-trade union legislation of 1992 was only the start of a process. Any conflict, such as Employment Tribunals or other industrial action, is very costly when financial resources are tight. AFAIK the SPFA is not a wealthy trade union. It's all conjecture, of course, but any negotiations would be undertaken in the light of this background. Edited August 2, 2014 by Fearchar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 You are indeed mistaken, Norgethistle: the most recent change to Employment Law dates from October last year: the anti-trade union legislation of 1992 was only the start of a process. Any conflict, such as Employment Tribunals or other industrial action, is very costly when financial resources are tight. AFAIK the SPFA is not a wealthy trade union. It's all conjecture, of course, but any negotiations would be undertaken in the light of this background. Never let it it get to this, please. Sean Welsh for POTY 2014-15!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Never let it it get to this, please. Sean Welsh for POTY 2014-15!!! Agree morally we should stand by any player who gets injured doing his job for the club, like we did with Morgan, Flood, Campbell, Macnamarra amongst other 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Agree morally we should stand by any player who gets injured doing his job for the club, like we did with Morgan, Flood, Campbell, Macnamarra amongst other Absolutely. The player that Alan Morgan could have becomes for the Jags............................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Maybe Gabby should get himself injured, sure to tug at the heart strings of some Jags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Norge is correct on a number of his points: eg belong to a Trade Union and its solicitors will represent you should you be a victim of unfair dismissal, or fall foul of an employer's desire to cause you detriment where the law protects you. Equally, it is a good and fair point that there are some first class Employment Law solicitors and barristers out working for firms such as Thompsons who only act on behalf of workers and their unions. Fearchar is correct too about the raft of profoundly insidious changes to EL by this shower and which have resulted in a dramatic fall in the number of ET cases being lodged: £1,200 to have a case heard in the ETs; there is a fee remission system, but it only applies to claimants who have less than £3k in the bank or in the form of identifiable savings. Fact is, nowadays legal firms - including Thompsons - are probably working on an 85-90% threshold of likelihood of the case being successful before agreeing to take it on. The average settlement in winning cases is well below what many people think (don't have the exact figure to hand) and the upper limit has been reduced, meaning that probably only low paid footballers would stand to break even in a winning case; even then, contributory negligence can reduce awards to as low as zero payment. We have the least favourable and most reactionary employment laws in Western Europe and Cameron & Clegg want to make them even worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 In this instance I don't care a toss about employment law but if PTFC were to ditch Sean Welsh without compensation commensurate to his contract I would have severe difficulty with continual support of same club. That's said it's an easy statement to make knowing perfectly well that Sean didn't set out to get himself deliberately injured. There's also a reasonably obvious reason why anyone associated with PTFC couldn't possibly argue in favour of ditching Welsh. Have a wee look back in the recent news ptfc column and draw your own conclusion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 There's also a reasonably obvious reason why anyone associated with PTFC couldn't possibly argue in favour of ditching Welsh. Have a wee look back in the recent news ptfc column and draw your own conclusion. Is he organising the PTFC golf day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Is he organising the PTFC golf day? Could do worse. In fact I hope it ain't any of the usual suspects organising it. Not of course what I referring to. Edited August 3, 2014 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Since professional football started there have been countless players who've had to give up due to injury, the two most recent Thistle examples being Alan Morgan and David McCallum. Aren't players usually insured against this kind of thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediocre Pundit Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 There's also a reasonably obvious reason why anyone associated with PTFC couldn't possibly argue in favour of ditching Welsh. Have a wee look back in the recent news ptfc column and draw your own conclusion. No idea what you're talking about - fancy pointing us in the direction of the appropriate news article? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 No idea what you're talking about - fancy pointing us in the direction of the appropriate news article? Could be wrong, but I reckon it's the one welcoming the new physio. Says something about welsh being fairly close to returning, although we never know what close is with him.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veejag Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Six weeks. Always six weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Could be wrong, but I reckon it's the one welcoming the new physio. Says something about welsh being fairly close to returning, although we never know what close is with him.. Aye that's what I was referring to. I wasn't being cryptic. Just when a new physio says "great progress" I'll take him at his word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Norge is correct on a number of his points: eg belong to a Trade Union and its solicitors will represent you should you be a victim of unfair dismissal, or fall foul of an employer's desire to cause you detriment where the law protects you. Equally, it is a good and fair point that there are some first class Employment Law solicitors and barristers out working for firms such as Thompsons who only act on behalf of workers and their unions. Fearchar is correct too about the raft of profoundly insidious changes to EL by this shower and which have resulted in a dramatic fall in the number of ET cases being lodged: £1,200 to have a case heard in the ETs; there is a fee remission system, but it only applies to claimants who have less than £3k in the bank or in the form of identifiable savings. Fact is, nowadays legal firms - including Thompsons - are probably working on an 85-90% threshold of likelihood of the case being successful before agreeing to take it on. The average settlement in winning cases is well below what many people think (don't have the exact figure to hand) and the upper limit has been reduced, meaning that probably only low paid footballers would stand to break even in a winning case; even then, contributory negligence can reduce awards to as low as zero payment. We have the least favourable and most reactionary employment laws in Western Europe and Cameron & Clegg want to make them even worse. And Labour changed none of the anti-union laws in their 13 years of power and offer nothing in the increasingly unlikely event they get a majority in 2015. Better Together indeed. As for Sean Welsh, I've always thought he was over-rated by most Jags fans and I wouldn't have a fit Welsh in the starting XI against Ross County if he was available. Still, gotta treat the guy right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyprusjag Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Amazing how two people can see the same player in a different light.I've always thought Welsh was a class act. An intelligent player with a lot of skill . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.