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Thistle Transfer Targets Gossip, Summer 2014


yoda-jag
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I suppose we should be hoping they're better than us...

 

On paper? I'm assuming you've never seen Stevenson play? I honestly can't remember anyone having a bad word to say about that signing.

 

Osman wasn't picked up off the street, bindle in hand, he came on Kenny Crichton's recommendation. Archie targeted 5 or 6 players of which one was always going to be an experienced sitting midfielder.

 

Look at the side that finished the season relatively strongly - Stevenson is a replacement for Erskine while Osman fills Buaben's shoes. Muirhead is also fully fit.

 

I'll concede that Taylor's decision to join Scunthorpe probably blindsided us, but I believe we're a long way off the disaster people are predicting.

 

I'm also a lot more confident going into the season with Gallagher as our established number one.

 

The fact is, there are certain individuals who will always deride Archie - or any other Thistle manager, for that matter - no matter what he does or who he signs. It's just their nature.

 

Look at the players other SPL clubs have brought in. If we signed them they'd be labelled unknowns, over the hill or not good enough.

 

We've spent a season in the premiership. We've seen the majority of the teams we'll come up against and have experience of those coming up from the Championship. Considering that, what's causing the panic?

 

So our former physio is our scoutng system?

 

You seem to be ITK so who recommended Barr & Mustoe? The other big lad in the midfield vs Dumbarton?

 

As for the other SPL teams signing unknowns, that's crap. The majority of players Dundee & Killie have signed have previous SPL experience.

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In this article Archie states that he wants the transfer work done by August so we are still on target if he is talking about the end of the transfer window (and even if we are looking at the start of the season that is still 2 weeks). I would expect that after the friendly today there will be progress on signings but if not we have to back Archie's judgement.

 

http://www.eveningti...67665n.24398514

 

There's a difference between trusting his judgement & taking what's in front of you as needs must.

 

I fear that's the scenario with Barr & Mustoe as they're still 'on trial' after 4 weeks & we still need a CH & a LB.

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So our former physio is our scoutng system?

 

You seem to be ITK so who recommended Barr & Mustoe? The other big lad in the midfield vs Dumbarton?

 

As for the other SPL teams signing unknowns, that's crap. The majority of players Dundee & Killie have signed have previous SPL experience.

 

Do you think Thistle contact all the agencies in the UK and say, who have you got in this budget in these positions.... Send their CVs over...

 

Archie then narrows it down and brings in certain players on trial?

 

Likewise he knows the players out with our budget and has told their agents, if they don't get a deal, we'll take them on our terms for a year, to put them in the shop window...

 

Maybe the players other teams have signed, Archie doesn't want, or doesn't think they are worth the wage other teams are paying them?

 

 

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Do you think Thistle contact all the agencies in the UK and say, who have you got in this budget in these positions.... Send their CVs over...

 

Archie then narrows it down and brings in certain players on trial?

 

Likewise he knows the players out with our budget and has told their agents, if they don't get a deal, we'll take them on our terms for a year, to put them in the shop window...

 

Maybe the players other teams have signed, Archie doesn't want, or doesn't think they are worth the wage other teams are paying them?

 

Not being rude but you know this how?

 

How do you even know a player out with our budget until we start talking terms? There will be players straight away that our out of reach. I don't expect Messi or Pique at Firhill but if players aren't identified by a scouting system then spoken to directly or through an agent then we won't ever know.

 

Guys like Hartley, McNamara even Stubbs have all played at a higher level than Archibald. Therefore it stands to reason that they also have more contacts within the game BUT that's where a half decent scouting system comes in for us.

 

I'm not sure we have one never mind a half decent one!!

 

A player only worth as much as a team willing to pay them. If you think he's the missing link in the team then you have to be willing to pay that wee bit extra.

 

I think the chairman/Ian Maxwell said there would be more money available for wages this season.

 

Whilst I think that both Stevenson & Osman ate good signings we are well covered in midfield if we didn't manage to get these boys in. What we need is a CH, LB & another CF. Same as last Summer- we did need Left sided cover.

 

Christine Elliot is not an answer to any of these problems yet we've given him a new contract. Strikes me as a 'cheap, better than nothing' option. Found this also for Dark Passanger http://terracepodcast.net/transfers/2014/7/25/ryan-stevenson-to-partick-thistle

Edited by Bleeding Gums Murphy
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Not being rude but you know this how?

 

How do you even know a player out with our budget until we start talking terms? There will be players straight away that our out of reach. I don't expect Messi or Pique at Firhill but if players aren't identified by a scouting system then spoken to directly or through an agent then we won't ever know

 

Guys like Hartley, McNamara even Stubbs have all played at a higher level than Archibald. Therefore it stands to reason that they also have more contacts within the game BUT that's where a half decent scouting system comes in for us.

 

I'm not sure we have one never mind a half decent one!!

 

A player only worth as much as a team willing to pay them. If you think he's the missing link in the team then you have to be willing to pay that wee bit extra.

 

I think the chairman/Ian Maxwell said there would be more money available for wages this season.

 

Whilst I think that both Stevenson & Osman ate good signings we are well covered in midfield if we didn't manage to get these boys in. What we need is a CH, LB & another CF. Same as last Summer- we did need Left sided cover.

 

Christine Elliot is not an answer to any of these problems yet we've given him a new contract. Strikes me as a 'cheap, better than nothing' option. Found this also for Dark Passanger http://terracepodcast.net/transfers/2014/7/25/ryan-stevenson-to-partick-thistle

 

Common sense tells me this is a route the club would take in finding out what players are available.

 

You know a player is out with your budget because the agent tells you how much a player is valuing himself at.

 

What's to say that it doesn't work the other way, and every agent in the uk sends our a list of players to all the uk clubs and says, here's the players we have in the 0-1000 a week budget, 1000-2000 budget etc.

 

5 clubs contact an agent and say, we are interested in say, Tesselar, his agent says, we want 2k a week. St mirren, thistle and st Johnstone show an interest, but thistle only want to offer 1500. The agent says well at mirren are offering 2k... That's it, unless we up our offer, we're out.

 

Both osman and Stevenson are improvements to the squad, Stevenson is better than Craigan and Lawless. Osman replaced Ozzy, and a potentially never fit Welsh.

 

Elliott proved his worth at the end of last season and I'd guess he is one of the lowest earners at the club. The positions he can cover, I'm happy he's here for this season.

 

Whilst I do agree sometimes you do need to break the bank. Tesserae would have been a reason to do that. Whilst he's played in Scotland as a left back. His preferred position is centre half.

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Common sense tells me this is a route the club would take in finding out what players are available.

 

You know a player is out with your budget because the agent tells you how much a player is valuing himself at.

 

What's to say that it doesn't work the other way, and every agent in the uk sends our a list of players to all the uk clubs and says, here's the players we have in the 0-1000 a week budget, 1000-2000 budget etc.

 

5 clubs contact an agent and say, we are interested in say, Tesselar, his agent says, we want 2k a week. St mirren, thistle and st Johnstone show an interest, but thistle only want to offer 1500. The agent says well at mirren are offering 2k... That's it, unless we up our offer, we're out.

 

Both osman and Stevenson are improvements to the squad, Stevenson is better than Craigan and Lawless. Osman replaced Ozzy, and a potentially never fit Welsh.

 

Elliott proved his worth at the end of last season and I'd guess he is one of the lowest earners at the club. The positions he can cover, I'm happy he's here for this season.

 

Whilst I do agree sometimes you do need to break the bank. Tesserae would have been a reason to do that. Whilst he's played in Scotland as a left back. His preferred position is centre half.

Whatever way you want to look at it , think between Archie/ Maxie etc they've made an absolute mess of the summer transfer window, players should have been identified within our price range and signed , we're now 2 weeks away from the start of the season probably without an experienced CH and LB to get integrated in to our style of play and system , surely a huge disadvantage ? . We're now getting left with the dregs of the transfer window, so much for us pushing on this season.
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Whatever way you want to look at it , think between Archie/ Maxie etc they've made an absolute mess of the summer transfer window, players should have been identified within our price range and signed , we're now 2 weeks away from the start of the season probably without an experienced CH and LB to get integrated in to our style of play and system , surely a huge disadvantage ? . We're now getting left with the dregs of the transfer window, so much for us pushing on this season.

I tend to agree with you. I was clear for over a year that ATS would be leaving at the end of the season, and although you can’t predict the state of the transfer market a year in advance, you would have thought that Archie would have had at least a few targets in mind. It now seems clear as well that Mair was only a short term solution, and once again a replacement should have been scoped out in the past six months.

 

You’ve still got to hope/expect that Archie knows what he is doing. But the longer he waits, the less time new players will have to integrate into the core of the squad.

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Whatever way you want to look at it , think between Archie/ Maxie etc they've made an absolute mess of the summer transfer window, players should have been identified within our price range and signed , we're now 2 weeks away from the start of the season probably without an experienced CH and LB to get integrated in to our style of play and system , surely a huge disadvantage ? . We're now getting left with the dregs of the transfer window, so much for us pushing on this season.

 

I suppose you would consider higginbotham or Osborne as being the dregs of the transfer market then? I would tend to agree that it would be better to have the right players in right at the start of the window to have plenty of time to settle into the squad, but it simply doesn't work like that. We can identify all the targets we want, we simply won't get them all. I think at this stage it's almost a certainty that we'll be signing mustoe, and probably Barr as well. If we get this I'd personally say we'd only be on the lookout for another striker really, although I know others would argue we need another centre back. There's two ways of looking at it with regards to the tail end of the transfer window, you could either say it's the dregs that noone else wanted, which undoubtedly some of the players kicking about clubless will be, or you could see that some players who previously would have no interest in signing for us will now become available as they've been unable to get a club at the level they wanted, like higgy or Osborne. I'm not saying Archie etc can't be criticised for anything, far from it I think where there are valid reasons for criticism then it is more than warranted, but a lot of this seems to be unfounded nonsense.

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To a certain extent I think that both sides are right. I'm sure that Archie would agree that he would have liked a couple more names in place by now, but equally it is hardly doom and gloom as our competators have hardly set the heather alight with their additions. I can't honestly think of one player signed by our immediate competition where I'd have though "wish we'd got him". Looking the other way I'm sure many will think theid missed out on Stevenson.

 

As for ATS, there is not exactly a plethora os left sided attacking full backs. Who exactly are the targets that we have missed out on and being linked with a world cup playershows the standard we are looking at.

 

So my conclusion is that yes we are behind schedule, but there is time to play with and there are plenty of fish in the sea still to be hooked (That was not an attempt at a pun). Lets see what happens before the window closes before the doom and gloom is brought out.

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Really love how when someone points out we have been a bit slow with our signings this summer..

 

Immediately labeled pant pishers..

 

Brilliant counter point Garscube.. Just brilliant!

 

 

The title is Garscube Road End. And yes there are a lot of pant pishers on here , but hey, just the usual ones as last season. I will start to worry nearer the kick off. And I am sure it isn't easy trying to sign better players. May be more money, but doesn' t mean we are paying more than the likes of Dundee and Killie etc. Does it? Maybe Jags aren't an attractive option for certain players.

Edited by Garscube Road End
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You seem to be ITK...

 

As for the other SPL teams signing unknowns, that's crap. The majority of players Dundee & Killie have signed have previous SPL experience.

 

I read the newspapers.

 

The majority? Really? I also said they'd be labelled over the hill by some. I'm sure McPake and Miller would come under that category. Thomson and Hammill wouldn't figure in your thinking since midfield wasn't a priority.

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I suppose you would consider higginbotham or Osborne as being the dregs of the transfer market then? I would tend to agree that it would be better to have the right players in right at the start of the window to have plenty of time to settle into the squad, but it simply doesn't work like that. We can identify all the targets we want, we simply won't get them all. I think at this stage it's almost a certainty that we'll be signing mustoe, and probably Barr as well. If we get this I'd personally say we'd only be on the lookout for another striker really, although I know others would argue we need another centre back. There's two ways of looking at it with regards to the tail end of the transfer window, you could either say it's the dregs that noone else wanted, which undoubtedly some of the players kicking about clubless will be, or you could see that some players who previously would have no interest in signing for us will now become available as they've been unable to get a club at the level they wanted, like higgy or Osborne. I'm not saying Archie etc can't be criticised for anything, far from it I think where there are valid reasons for criticism then it is more than warranted, but a lot of this seems to be unfounded nonsense.

I sincerely hope you're right but don't think we're going to get a Higgy/ Osbourne every season if we're going to have any ambition in the future can this strategy leaving transfers to the last minute work ? . Motherwell, Aberdeen , St Johnstone and Celtic have all played competitive European games so far and if we're going to have any aspirations for the future the transfer policy has got to change.
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I sincerely hope you're right but don't think we're going to get a Higgy/ Osbourne every season if we're going to have any ambition in the future can this strategy leaving transfers to the last minute work ? . Motherwell, Aberdeen , St Johnstone and Celtic have all played competitive European games so far and if we're going to have any aspirations for the future the transfer policy has got to change.

 

I'm not sure if we will either, but we have to hope so. As I've said I'd be amazed if we don't sign mustoe, and I'll be surprised although less so if we don't get Barr in as well. I don't think leaving it till the last minute is a deliberate ploy, rather more a combination of poor fortune in the right players not being available, missing out on a few players we almost got, and probably a bit of naivity on the part of our management team, although they are still relatively new to the game and continue to learn lessons as they go. I'm sure this experience will be invaluable in his learning curve as a manager, and will help if and when we are the position that Motherwell/st Johnstone etc are in.

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I sincerely hope you're right but don't think we're going to get a Higgy/ Osbourne every season if we're going to have any ambition in the future can this strategy leaving transfers to the last minute work ? . Motherwell, Aberdeen , St Johnstone and Celtic have all played competitive European games so far and if we're going to have any aspirations for the future the transfer policy has got to change.

 

If we were playing European football, we would either have good enough players of would be a more attractive proposition for better players.

 

I think that a lot of players will be thinking Thistle will be on the 2nd season slump and not willing to commit too early. Dundee have made a lot of signings but at what cost ?

 

 

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If Archie's intention is to go with the academy and reserves through to the full team I`m cool with that. also looking at what's on offer within Scotland's price range never mind Thistles then it's really no surprise were still looking, searching for a diamond in a vat of keech is no easy task. Bring on the young team, 9 out of 10 television celebrities would agree.

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Gosh all very heated.....

By sept 1 if we don't have 2 centre backs , 1 left back and 1 striker that are an improvement on the squad that finished the season we will have put ourselves in a very difficult position for the season ahead

The transfer window will always be problematic fir bulbs likd us

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Gosh all very heated.....

By sept 1 if we don't have 2 centre backs , 1 left back and 1 striker that are an improvement on the squad that finished the season we will have put ourselves in a very difficult position for the season ahead

The transfer window will always be problematic fir bulbs likd us

I don't think improvement is the case, we lost ATS, Mair & Taylor for various reasons, but we just need similar. The priority surely must have been to replace them & so far we are nowhere near that. Worrying times to some degree, but I'm sure we'll finish above Accies & probably Dundee. Also ICT, Kille, St M & RC haven't strengthened so I think even with what we have we should be ok, especially with Higgy's class & the addition of Stevenson

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Gosh all very heated.....

By sept 1 if we don't have 2 centre backs , 1 left back and 1 striker that are an improvement on the squad that finished the season we will have put ourselves in a very difficult position for the season ahead

The transfer window will always be problematic fir bulbs likd us

 

This is the key point here. September 1st is our crucial date, not August 9th (when we're not even playing). Yes in an ideal world we would sign the players we want early, but you also want to get the best players your budget allows. It's a difficult balancing act, and last year's experience has probably taught Archie that more players do tend to fall within your budget as the season gets closer. Having these guys in for pre season would be ideal, but as I said probably earlier in this same thread, you would rather have a Higginbotham or an Osbourne who was up and running 5 games into the season than a Baird or Kerr who was ready to go from day 1.

 

My view of Archie is that he sets his standards pretty high (I would disagree with him on Elliott but not to worry). If players fall even slightly below a standard where he thinks they can drive the club forward (Craig, Dowie, Mair) he's not slow to move them on. If he's not seen the standard he wants to fill the gaps in the squad so far, he's more than earned our trust to give him the time to do that before 1st September.

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I read the newspapers.

 

The majority? Really? I also said they'd be labelled over the hill by some. I'm sure McPake and Miller would come under that category. Thomson and Hammill wouldn't figure in your thinking since midfield wasn't a priority.

 

Yes. The majority.

 

McPake only just turned 30 & Miller a better option in attack than our current first team back up attacker who is.....

 

Notice on the other thread someone at Glentoran saying the number 3- does anyone know which one it was?- didn't look up to much.

 

No Barr? That either means we're not interested or he's injured (2nd time in pre season) which means with his recent injury record we shouldn't be interested.

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Let's try to look at things objectively compared to our squad at the close of the transfer window last season. I have excluded players that were out on loan to other Clubs and thus formed no part of the first-team's nominal strength:

 

Goalkeepers: Fox and Gallagher - unchanged the only difference being the latter is now the recognised first choice

 

Defenders: O'Donnell, Muirhead (just back from a dreadful injury), Balatoni, McMillan and Piccolo (extremely out of favour and not, it seems, even training with the first team) on the books, Taylor-Sinclair out.

 

Conventional Midfield: Welsh (now always 6 weeks away), Fraser, Bannigan, Craigan common denominators, then Osman in, Osbourne, Forbes, Kerr and Murray out

 

Attacking Midfield: Higginbotham, Lawless, Elliott the same, plus Stevenson in. No one out.

 

Full-On Strikers: Doolan, with Baird and Mukendi out.

 

To my mind, the only significantly weaker area is the lack of a left back, the fact that Muirhead is just back from a long injury, that Piccolo seems so out of favour he might as well not exist, and we're possibly a little lighter in terms of hypothetical depth of the midfield, though Kerr and Murray might as well never have existed and we coped without Welsh for most of last season anyway. We're marginally stronger in attacking midfield than before. We're weaker in terms of depth up-front, but given Baird and Mukendi contributed literally nothing only nominally so.

 

Left-back aside, we only appear noticeably weaker when compared to after the January window of last season. It's worth remembering that Baird, Mukendi, Murray, Kerr, Osbourne, Welsh, Muirhead and Forbes played no meaningful part from then on (in some cases earlier), for whom we got the benefit of Taylor, Erskine, Buaben and Mair. With those players, our like-for-like situation is Osman in for Buaben, Stevenson in for Erskine, no replacement for Taylor, sort-of Muirhead back for Mair. And Taylor-Sinclair out.

 

Notwithstanding the panic, we're left with the unremarkable conclusion that what we're short of is a replacement for ATS, short of a centre-back if Piccolo is out the picture, and if the money stretches, we could do with a tall, robust, pacey striker. Compared to the start of last season, we are down only a left back, some midfield dross, up an attacking midfielder and down John Baird.

 

Sort out the left back and we're not actually behind the squad we had. Not further ahead, granted, but not reason for concern with a month or so left in which to do business.

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You're right Woodstock Jag about the numbers, but the inescapable fact is that the central defence was shocking last season. Unless that is sorted we will struggle again this year, and without a similar replacement for Taylor (unlikely) there will be even more pressure heaped on the central defence. The priority to me is two big, dirty central defenders - hard to find with our budget. Much too soon to start panicking though - maybe the Rangers match tomorrow will crystalise Archie's thoughts.

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