English Football

[Willjag]

A couple of stories from England caught my attention over the last couple of days the latest being the news that Tony Pulis quitting Crystal Palace 2 days before the start of the season owing to lack of support in the transfer market (watch out David Beattie!). Shocked that Palace have let this happen after the guy saved them from what seemed to be certain relegation last season.

 

The second story from a couple of days back is an interesting one. Convicted rapist Ched Evans is about to be released from jail and there is a 60,000 name petition asking Sheffield United not to re-sign him. Although he's just about served his sentence, he's appealing the case again. I wonder how the Thistle fans would feel if we offered him a way back into the game?

[P-R]

Tony Pulis one is totally bizarre, it's up there with Mark Robbins getting the boot from Huddersfield after the first game.

 

I'd say no to Evans at Thistle. It's too serious an offence that he's still considered guilty of.

[oneteaminglasgow]

Personally, and I know people will probably disagree with this, but had ched Evans been a thistle player before he was inprisoned, then I'd have no issue with taking him back. As long as he's willing to knuckle down and just get on with his football I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to. As far as the law is concerned, he has served his punishment for the crime he committed, and it was a disgusting crime, but these attempts to continue punishing him once he's already completed his sentence reek of vigilantism to me.

[yoda-jag]

Tony Pulis one is totally bizarre, it's up there with Mark Robbins getting the boot from Huddersfield after the first game.

 

agree its a bit bizarre with pulis, but thats a manager sticking to his beliefs and principles ..... and as willjag says, saved palace from relegation ..... if it wasn't for pulis, palace would never had stayed up imo.

but i wouldn't equate it to mark robbins ..... this is a manager who only won just two of their last 13 league games in a 2013/14 campaign that finished with a total of 23 defeats ..... so while strange a manager being punted one game into a season, in a wider (form) context it isn't, and can't be equated to the pulis situation.

[oneteaminglasgow]

 

 

agree its a bit bizarre with pulis, but thats a manager sticking to his beliefs and principles ..... and as willjag says, saved palace from relegation ..... if it wasn't for pulis, palace would never had stayed up imo.

but i wouldn't equate it to mark robbins ..... this is a manager who only won just two of their last 13 league games in a 2013/14 campaign that finished with a total of 23 defeats ..... so while strange a manager being punted one game into a season, in a wider (form) context it isn't, and can't be equated to the pulis situation.

 

Agree with you re robins. I was at that game, and they were utterly hopeless. The general consensus amongst the town support seems to be that it's the right decision to sack him, but that it should have been done before the summer to allow the new manager to get his own squad in.

[JaggyMad]

Personally, and I know people will probably disagree with this, but had ched Evans been a thistle player before he was inprisoned, then I'd have no issue with taking him back. As long as he's willing to knuckle down and just get on with his football I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to. As far as the law is concerned, he has served his punishment for the crime he committed, and it was a disgusting crime, but these attempts to continue punishing him once he's already completed his sentence reek of vigilantism to me.

 

Do you think 3 yrs in jail is enough for raping someone? I don't personally, think he should be banged up for at least 10 yrs for raping anyone. And he should never be near another pro team.

This isnt me being vindictive, this is coming from someone who has 2 daughters and 3 grand daughters, personally I would kill the chunt who did that to any my family!!

[oneteaminglasgow]

 

 

Do you think 3 yrs in jail is enough for raping someone? I don't personally, think he should be banged up for at least 10 yrs for raping anyone. And he should never be near another pro team.

This isnt me being vindictive, this is coming from someone who has 2 daughters and 3 grand daughters, personally I would kill the chunt who did that to any my family!!

 

Whether I think it is or not is completely irrelevant. The legal system says it was, and that's what matters. He broke the law, and was handed what they viewed as an appropriate punishment for that breach of the law. He's now served that punishment, I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to just get on with his life now, and if Sheffield United think he can go a good job for them then they should employ him.

[scottymagoo]

Legally unless there’s specific need to check someone’s criminal record for a job, it’s against the law for employers to refuse to employ them because of spent convictions. In football however it would be easy to invent a justification for not signing a player. I wouldn't be keen, among other things the association with such a high profile negative case could put off sponsors.

[ifu03340]

Morally, I couldn't support anyone in a Thistle jersey who had previously been found guilty of rape - regardless of what the legal system does, or does not, say. I'd go as far to say that I would struggle to support Thistle if we had a convicted rapist in the team - young fans idolising a 'role model' goal-scoring number 9...who in his spare time doesn't have the discipline to stop himself from raping a women after drinking too much alcohol.

[MerryHell]

The liberal in me says he's served his time, but I cant disagree with an of the points above. I guess I'd respect any club that employed him, but would be glad it wasn't Thistle.

 

He's still protesting his innocence and I'd say he'd be better concentrating on his appeal before looking at getting back into football.

[JaggyMad]

 

 

Whether I think it is or not is completely irrelevant. The legal system says it was, and that's what matters. He broke the law, and was handed what they viewed as an appropriate punishment for that breach of the law. He's now served that punishment, I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to just get on with his life now, and if Sheffield United think he can go a good job for them then they should employ him.

 

But it is relevant if as you ask, he was a thistle player. So as a thistle fan I wouldn't renew my season books if he played for us and was convicted of rape.

Edited August 15, 2014 by JaggyMad

[oneteaminglasgow]

 

 

But it is relevant if as you ask, he was a thistle player. So as a thistle fan I wouldn't renew my season books if he played for us and was convicted of rape.

 

And you're entitled to do that if you so wish, and any club signing him would have to think about things like that beforehand, but this petition to stop him playing for Sheffield United seems to me to be members of the public deciding that his punishment should be extended when it really isn't their place to do so.

[Juan Carlos I]

Part of the reason 60,000 signed against Ched Evans returning to Sheff Utd is that he has never apologised to his victim or admitted guilt for his crime.

 

The justice system is supposed to rehabilitate prisoners - he's clearly not been rehabilitated if he still refuses to accept any responsibility.

 

Legally he is a free man but I'd be utterly ashamed if my club signed him. He's an unrepentant rapist.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Could be difficult employing a convicted rapist if part of your contract requires visiting the community, local schools etc I don't know if it is contractual or not with our lads but they do a grand job.

It is a difficult decision to make as the guy's served his sentence and his crime in this instance in theory at least shouldn't effect his work. If you were a bank teller and you'd been sentenced for shoplifting I don't suppose you'd have a job to return to.

People are free to organise and sign petitions but that shouldn't in principle effect Sheffield Utd's ultimate decision.

[jagfox]

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/mcallister-says-new-scots-managers-will-be-targets-1-3510443

 

Gary McAllister on the interest in young Scottish managers from down south. Yes, Archie gets a mention!

[Norgethistle]

Part of the reason 60,000 signed against Ched Evans returning to Sheff Utd is that he has never apologised to his victim or admitted guilt for his crime.

 

The justice system is supposed to rehabilitate prisoners - he's clearly not been rehabilitated if he still refuses to accept any responsibility.

 

Legally he is a free man but I'd be utterly ashamed if my club signed him. He's an unrepentant rapist.

 

If he admitted guilt or apologized then he would have no chance of an appeal (Can't appeal a conviction you have admitted to), it appears he is still appealing the conviction

[Norman]

Possibly opening another can of worms here, but weren't we captained on Wednesday by a convicted drink driver who is still serving his conviction?

 

You might argue it is a lesser offence, but I could find you thousands of victims who would put it on a par.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Norman

[jags on tour]

Possibly opening another can of worms here, but weren't we captained on Wednesday by a convicted drink driver who is still serving his conviction?

 

You might argue it is a lesser offence, but I could find you thousands of victims who would put it on a par.

 

aye and who was the halftime guest lol

[thebiglemon]

oops

Edited August 16, 2014 by thebiglemon

[Gibberish]

Possibly opening another can of worms here, but weren't we captained on Wednesday by a convicted drink driver who is still serving his conviction?

 

You might argue it is a lesser offence, but I could find you thousands of victims who would put it on a par.

And this statement just about sums up some of the morons that frequent this forum

[Dark Passenger]

Do you actually have anything constructive to add, or are you content to add to the perceived sniping with some of your own?

[kni]

http://m.scotsman.co...rgets-1-3510443

 

Gary McAllister on the interest in young Scottish managers from down south. Yes, Archie gets a mention!

 

Interesting comment

 

“... I like watching Partick Thistle. I think they will change and adapt a little bit, perhaps not attacking so much and getting a better balance. It’s all very positive from them, and they have left themselves exposed defensively on occasion, but I’m sure Alan Archibald will sort that.”

 

 

ETA - On the subject of English football, Victor Moses is the 18th Chelsea player to go out on loan for this season. Only two loanees came through the academy and they paid £50 to 60 million for the others.

Edited August 18, 2014 by kni

[sb1876]

And this statement just about sums up some of the morons that frequent this forum

 

Is the statement from a moron because drink driving is an extremely serious crime which could result in tragedy for several families and is obviously at least on a par - or worse than the crime Ched Evans was convicted of?

 

Or is the comment moronic because (in your opinion) drink driving is not a serious crime and cannot be compared with what Evans did?

 

I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts and I don't think it's all that clear which of the two options you feel so strongly about.

 

I'd say Norman is spot on to suggest that both could be argued as equally as serious, especially as he stressed taking the victims opinion.

 

I'm not sure many people could say being injured or killed by a drunk driver was either better or worse than being assulted as per the Evans case.

Edited August 18, 2014 by sb1876

[Norman]

I think my statement is from a 'moron' because, when he's previously called other posters 'stupid' or 'idiot', they've refused to rise to the bait.

I guess he's spoiling for a fight and eventually someone might bite.

Sorry Gibberish, better luck next time.

[Winter of '63]

I think my statement is from a 'moron' because, when he's previously called other posters 'stupid' or 'idiot', they've refused to rise to the bait.

I guess he's spoiling for a fight and eventually someone might bite.

Sorry Gibberish, better luck next time.

This Forum and its predecessors used to be a pleasure to read with intelligent, informed and good humoured contributions from posters like Fellow Traveller, Lobster Noise and Alan Herron. They don't post here anymore...at least under these names and I'm fairly sure that they are not now posting as The Cup, The Legend Blows or Gibberish.

 

Even though I don't always agree with their point of view, posts from the likes of Trotter and The Italian Red Monkey are always worth reading - contrary opinions are what a good forum should be about. However, unfortunately, there seem to be an increasing number of posters on here who I can't believe are really that rude and stupid. Maybe their mentality is to adopt that internet wind-up merchant persona. As you say, the best response is not to take the bait.

 

I think you made a very fair point in your original post and would add that being three times the drink driving limit hardly seems to be the behaviour of a model professional - some supporters might question the player's commitment to maintaining his fitness.